Moab trails closed.

[nuclearlemon]

i'm glad the people you've met are not anti ohv. grand mesa has done a great job in that area and there are good people on the western slope. that is not the majority rule though. a lot of higher ups in the blm are anti access, hence the reason brc is against them. in addition to the moab crap they are trying to do the same thing in rock springs and saying 'we know it says we're not going to allow ohv travel, grazing and oil and gas, but trust us, we will', but they refuse to put it in writing. they will shut it down. thankfully a lot of wyoming politicians are ready to sue the blm if they do

never heard of sons of smokey or leave no trace, but stay the trail and tread lightly are educational entities, and while needed won't do anything to help us fight our battles. you should look into groups like core, cohvco, and trails preservation alliance.

 

[Burt88]

I’ll look into those organizations. BRC was my go to advocate until recently but I had to draw the line. It’s my own responsibility to check every narrative for truth in its message when they’re asking for money.

As the popularity of backcountry travel grows we need to keep our representation honest and find reasonable middle ground. If we can’t stop the destructive behavior within our own community we will continue to lose more ground, literally.

 

[Hulk]

Saw this online. Link

 

[Corbet]

Saw this online. Link

View attachment 123202

Hasn’t our government been doing that for us along with the NFS/NPS which has contributed to their inability to manage that for which they are assigned to do.

 

[DouglasVB]

Hasn’t our government been doing that for us along with the NFS/NPS which has contributed to their inability to manage that for which they are assigned to do.

It certainly didn't help when the USFS went from revenue positive to revenue negative several decades ago, and congress decided not to fund it adequately to make up for the shortfall.

 

[Burt88]

Hasn’t our government been doing that for us along with the NFS/NPS which has contributed to their inability to manage that for which they are assigned to do.

It's a common opinion of off road enthusiasts that more funding leads to more regulation. Right? So It's a no win, even if more funding would result in better management. Then, we assume that funding endless legal battles is efficient use of funds. We're just going around in circles.

 

[mcgaskins]

Congress Introduces Legislation to Stop Moab Road Closures

SEMA is asking industry members to contact Congress to help protect motorized access to the Labyrinth Rims Gemini Bridges area in Grand County, Utah.

www.sema.org

 

[J Kimmel]

It's a common opinion of off road enthusiasts that more funding leads to more regulation. Right? So It's a no win, even if more funding would result in better management. Then, we assume that funding endless legal battles is efficient use of funds. We're just going around in circles.

As typical with most government entities, this opinion has been formed from many years of experience. Nearly never does more money equal better service.

 

[Corbet]

As typical with most government entities, this opinion has been formed from many years of experience. Nearly never does more money equal better service.

No money equal no services, management, or law enforcement. At least with funding there’s a chance for common ground management.

What I’ve never understood about public lands management at any level is the attitude of minimal law/rule enforcement. Instead we “take this opportunity to educate”. We have regulations in place that if actually enforced would go a long way. And what educates the public the best, a hefty fine to match their ignorance or entitlement.

A perfect example of no money, no service. Vault toilets are getting closed all over due to lack of funding to service them. The result is human waste poorly disposed of. It’s a sad day when we can’t even deal with our own 💩

 

[J Kimmel]

No money equal no services, management, or law enforcement. At least with funding there’s a chance for common ground management.

What I’ve never understood about public lands management at any level is the attitude of minimal law/rule enforcement. Instead we “take this opportunity to educate”. We have regulations in place that if actually enforced would go a long way. And what educates the public the best, a hefty fine to match their ignorance or entitlement.

A perfect example of no money, no service. Vault toilets are getting closed all over due to lack of funding to service them. The result is human waste poorly disposed of. It’s a sad day when we can’t even deal with our own 💩

Could be, let me know what government agencies have gotten better with more funding. Somehow they always have room to expand administration and still need funding for actual services.

 

[Burt88]

Historically, the scope of public land management was much smaller. Activity from recreation was more concentrated and required far fewer resources to keep up. Mining, logging, and other industries that built roads in far remote places maintained them and those areas only saw occasional use from the public. 30+ years ago our agencies didn't need to worry about remote areas in their management scope. Now we expect public land agencies to utilize their minimal resources to properly manage greater and greater areas of land as the public utilizes more capable technology to reach farther into it while telling them they suck at their job. They have to keep users safe and whatever is open must remain open whether damage is natural or human related while telling employees their pay sucks. They have a responsibility to manage the balance of human interaction with the environment while we ignore the bad behavior and destruction caused by members of our community. Our motorized use is certainly at conflict with those that try to find peace and solitude when the general consensus of our society is that of disrespect.

To each his own, deal with it, not my problem, tough shit, nobody can tell me what to do, I don't care, if you don't like it go someplace else, not my fault, they started it, and so on and so on. That's what I hear and see all too often from all sides of a debate.

If our community doesn't figure out better ways to help maintain all the areas we want to remain open we will face more closure. Adequate funding is necessary as well as our support. Compromise is necessary in some cases because vehicle based travel isn't the only use of the land. But most of all, holding prominent organizations and companies within our community to a higher standard must be done. If we continue to allow and celebrate bad, obnoxious, and destructive behavior we will continue to lose ground.

Fines won't work by the way. As my FS friend told me it costs more to enforce a fine than the fine itself in most cases.

 

[Crash]

Historically, the scope of public land management was much smaller. Activity from recreation was more concentrated and required far fewer resources to keep up. Mining, logging, and other industries that built roads in far remote places maintained them and those areas only saw occasional use from the public. 30+ years ago our agencies didn't need to worry about remote areas in their management scope. Now we expect public land agencies to utilize their minimal resources to properly manage greater and greater areas of land as the public utilizes more capable technology to reach farther into it while telling them they suck at their job. They have to keep users safe and whatever is open must remain open whether damage is natural or human related while telling employees their pay sucks. They have a responsibility to manage the balance of human interaction with the environment while we ignore the bad behavior and destruction caused by members of our community. Our motorized use is certainly at conflict with those that try to find peace and solitude when the general consensus of our society is that of disrespect.

To each his own, deal with it, not my problem, tough shit, nobody can tell me what to do, I don't care, if you don't like it go someplace else, not my fault, they started it, and so on and so on. That's what I hear and see all too often from all sides of a debate.

If our community doesn't figure out better ways to help maintain all the areas we want to remain open we will face more closure. Adequate funding is necessary as well as our support. Compromise is necessary in some cases because vehicle based travel isn't the only use of the land. But most of all, holding prominent organizations and companies within our community to a higher standard must be done. If we continue to allow and celebrate bad, obnoxious, and destructive behavior we will continue to lose ground.

Fines won't work by the way. As my FS friend told me it costs more to enforce a fine than the fine itself in most cases.

Amen. You are preaching to the choir but yeah, amen.

 

[Corbet]

Fines won't work by the way. As my FS friend told me it costs more to enforce a fine than the fine itself in most cases.

Make the fine more.

 

[Cruisertrash]

@Burt88 That’s the most concise, sensible, and intelligent take I’ve heard on this issue anywhere - nationally, regionally, or right here in the club. Thanks for that. People can crow about their stance on these things without actually engaging in specific, reasonable, nuts-and-bolts thoughts all they want - and nothing will happen. We need more people talking about this the way you are with very specific considerations and a sense of compromise.

 

[Notyourmomslx450]

Well shit!

 

[J Kimmel]

Activists running the show. Stay tuned for more shocking closures coming and there’s nearly nothing we can do.

 

[cbmontgo]

Activists running the show. Stay tuned for more shocking closures coming and there’s nearly nothing we can do.

It is infuriating.

 

[ScaldedDog]

I wonder what effect the likely overturn of the Chevron decision will have in these agencies being able to do anything they want? I'm rarely optimistic about this sort of thing, but it holds the promise of gutting the administrative state that has taken over our lives. I sure hope so.

Mark

 

[J Kimmel]

I wonder what effect the likely overturn of the Chevron decision will have in these agencies being able to do anything they want? I'm rarely optimistic about this sort of thing, but it holds the promise of gutting the administrative state that has taken over our lives. I sure hope so.

Mark

Probably nothing, because like gun control they’ll happily do things that are blatantly illegal or unconstitutional and force it to go to court.
Because they can, and because if you want your rights you can spend your time and money in court to prove it.

 

[Burt88]

I read a quote recently, not sure who it's from. "We've become a society of all rights and no responsibility." We want the freedom to do whatever we want on our "public" land because we claim ownership of it. It's ours to do as we please and it's somebody else's responsibility to take care of it. As much as Rising Sun and other groups promote good behavior, there's a greater and louder community of off roaders that does not. If we don't find ways to promote a peaceful and cohesive existence in the backcountry we will continue to see more closures. It's the responsibility of influential organizations and businesses that market to our community to promote better behavior. Some of these trails can open back up if we stop being so stubborn and show a greater effort toward responsible behavior. In this instance the BLM has the authority to choose who's side to be on and I assure you it's not the group of people that bashes on them.

The conflict and destruction caused by motorized users is the root argument of closure advocates, whether you believe it exists or not. What they see happen in real life, the noise that ruins an otherwise peaceful location, and what they see promoted in advertisements is all fuel to their fire. They make a huge effort to support land management agencies while we tear them down. We have to promote change from within the community if we want to keep trails open. Accept responsibility of the bad behavior and confront it.