It’s IFS, it’s not going to articulate anyway 
2024 Land Cruiser "250 series"
- Thread starter Hulk
- Start date
DaveInDenver
Rising Sun Ham Guru
It’s IFS, it’s not going to articulate anyway
DouglasVB
Rising Sun Member
J1000
Rising Sun Member
New truck looks awesome but couldn't help noticing the IFS has a lot more 4Runner than LC.
Good times! Here is the designer of the new LC who was also the lead on the FJC.
Great time at Cruiser Fest, I enjoyed every second.
We’re so lucky to have such an amazing collection of Landcruisers so accessible.
Great time at Cruiser Fest, I enjoyed every second.
We’re so lucky to have such an amazing collection of Landcruisers so accessible.
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Doughboy
Rising Sun Member
- Joined
- Dec 7, 2018
- Messages
- 760
Well, yeah it's a prado. One would argue that the 4runner suspension looks more like a prado suspensionNew truck looks awesome but couldn't help noticing the IFS has a lot more 4Runner than LC.
DaveInDenver
Rising Sun Ham Guru
That looks improved compared to the 120/150 platform IFS (e.g 05+ Tacoma, 03+ 4Runner).New truck looks awesome but couldn't help noticing the IFS has a lot more 4Runner than LC.
The lower arm is definitely more substantial. I'd bet +50% thicker The mount for the shock is moved from on top to the front, which I imagine improves clearance to the CV axle and helps with the it trying to punch in the top half of the assembly.
On my Tacoma I had to offset the lower mount on my FOX to prevent it rubbing the axle when going lock-to-lock. I can barely get a finger between the shock and axle. It's a game of millimeters to put the puzzle of a 2.5" body shock in the stock location. On this it looks like you could fit a closed fist in there.
The spindle and tie rod end are beefier.
If I'm not mistaken the way all of this is configured is pretty much exactly like a 200 series is built. It might be scaled down, not sure on dimensions. But IMO this looks to be a significantly improved IFS, at least from the smaller-than-a-200 truck perspective.
The 120/150 for comparison.
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J1000
Rising Sun Member
The tie rod looks puny compared to my 100 series, which is all I really can go off. Also the cast aluminum knuckle and tie rod end are worrysome. Cast aluminum suspension parts are all the rage these days but are prone to cracking without warning. Throw in offroad use where they may be smacked by rocks and it's going to be a game of chance.
DaveInDenver
Rising Sun Ham Guru
I'm guessing then the 200 was made puny compared to the 100 but I don't know if tie rods are more or less of a problem.
The spindles on my gen truck are cast iron but they crack and get reinforced, too. And ask anyone's had to cut apart iron TREs that have rusted into one-ness with their steel shafts if aluminum is better or worse.
I'm of the opinion that iron, steel or aluminum, Toyota has the best FMEA tools and isn't making anything worse on purpose. They're up against weight reduction just to be allowed to make cars anywhere like what we actually want. So the aftermarket has to fill the gap of any real world deficiencies.
Plus insert your favorite materials science professor's obvious point that if you don't trust aluminum then you probably shouldn't step on an airplane and definitely do not look out a window at the wings if you don't think it can flex.
I figure Cruiser peeps are going through the IFS-must-suck game now that mini trucks had in 1986 and finally got over after 3 generations of IFS changes. It was first complaints. That was the Hi-Trak torsion bar IFS of 86-95. It was OK. Beefy enough. Rode terrible, had no travel. They had a weak spot in the rear-most supports for the lower arms was prone to bending and got all variety of frame cross members you could put in to reinforce it.
Then it was acceptance that it's not going away. But now with coil springs, well, it ain't half bad riding on the road and does actually do OK on trails. That's the 95-02/04 4Runner/Taco days. That gen did have a real design flaw that is unique to them. The lower ball joint is a major weak spot. Not in a derived way that only people who deviate from Toyota parameters (e.g. IFS has *always* been fine if you stick to stock suspension and tires). The LBJ is loaded in a way that even a grandpa driven truck can fail catastrophically.
So with the 3d gen of IFS mini truck/Taco/4Runner/FJC owners at the acknowledgement that for normal users it's fine and there's no serious flaws anymore. At this point even normal upgrades of mild lifts and a size or two up tire aren't much of a problem. The people who break stuff are running 35" tires or bigger on long travel, way beyond what Toyota can reasonably be expected to consider.
The things you have to do normally are minimal. I had to add reinforcement to the alignment tabs on my frame (used the Marlin kit). I dropped on a rock and bent one. Haven't yet ruined a spindle or TRE. I do have a big IFS plate under it though.
it's not a problem. It'll be OK. I suspect if this is the IFS, which would be the 4th design iteration we've seen, on the new Tacoma/4Runner/Prado/Cruiser it'll tolerate a crap ton of abuse.
The nice thing for Cruiser buyers is Toyota mostly worked out the bugs on a particular generation IFS on the Hilux/Prado/Surf before putting it in the main line standard model.
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J1000
Rising Sun Member
Oh don't get me wrong. I am by no means a solid axle fanatic. I love wheeling my 100. I just expected a little more wow factor with the all new LC. For instance my 100 also has more travel and more clearance under the diff than the 250 does. I know when the 3rd gen Miata came out it had cast aluminum suspension which was a departure from the cast iron and stamped steel of the predecessor and race teams started pre-emptively replacing those parts after X number of race hours whereas it was totally accepted practice to take a 100k mile Miata and run the stock arms and knuckles for years on track. Like you say, Toyota knows their stuff so it's probably better in practice than what came before but also like you say they are chasing emissions and MPG targets so not necessarily everything will be better or stronger.I'm guessing then the 200 was made puny compared to the 100 but I don't know if tie rods are more or less of a problem.
The spindles on my gen truck are cast iron but they crack and get reinforced, too. And ask anyone's had to cut apart iron TREs that have rusted into one-ness with their steel shafts if aluminum is better or worse.
I'm of the opinion that iron, steel or aluminum, Toyota has the best FMEA tools and isn't making anything worse on purpose. They're up against weight reduction just to be allowed to make cars anywhere like what we actually want. So the aftermarket has to fill the gap of any real world deficiencies.
Plus insert your favorite materials science professor's obvious point that if you don't trust aluminum then you probably shouldn't step on an airplane and definitely do not look out a window at the wings if you don't think it can flex.
I figure Cruiser peeps are going through the IFS-must-suck game now that mini trucks had in 1986 and finally got over after 3 generations of IFS changes. It was first complaints. That was the Hi-Trak torsion bar IFS of 86-95. It was OK. Beefy enough. Rode terrible, had no travel. They had a weak spot in the rear-most supports for the lower arms was prone to bending and got all variety of frame cross members you could put in to reinforce it.
Then it was acceptance that it's not going away. But now with coil springs, well, it ain't half bad riding on the road and does actually do OK on trails. That's the 95-02/04 4Runner/Taco days. That gen did have a real design flaw that is unique to them. The lower ball joint is a major weak spot. Not in a derived way that only people who deviate from Toyota parameters (e.g. IFS has *always* been fine if you stick to stock suspension and tires). The LBJ is loaded in a way that even a grandpa driven truck can fail catastrophically.
So with the 3d gen of IFS mini truck/Taco/4Runner/FJC owners at the acknowledgement that for normal users it's fine and there's no serious flaws anymore. At this point even normal upgrades of mild lifts and a size or two up tire aren't much of a problem. The people who break stuff are running 35" tires or bigger on long travel, way beyond what Toyota can reasonably be expected to consider.
The things you have to do normally are minimal. I had to add reinforcement to the alignment tabs on my frame (used the Marlin kit). I dropped on a rock and bent one. Haven't yet ruined a spindle or TRE. I do have a big IFS plate under it though.
it's not a problem. It'll be OK. I suspect if this is the IFS, which would be the 4th design iteration we've seen, on the new Tacoma/4Runner/Prado/Cruiser it'll tolerate a crap ton of abuse.
The nice thing for Cruiser buyers is Toyota mostly worked out the bugs on a particular generation IFS on the Hilux/Prado/Surf before putting it in the main line standard model.
According to this guy we actually got a Landcruiser
View: https://youtu.be/nFfQoEUGaf0?si=KU59ZPQsFxTvRB22
View: https://youtu.be/nFfQoEUGaf0?si=KU59ZPQsFxTvRB22
Well without burning 20 min watching the video this debate will probably go on forever. But Toyota put a “LandCruiser” badge on the truck so whether anyone likes it or not it’s a LandCruiser buy their definition. Unlike the FJC that we all know is not a LC 
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J1000
Rising Sun Member
I'm less convinced by this video, actually. First of all he says "identical" about 1,000 times but nothing he says is identical is actually identical, except the V6 engine. Everything else is different. The frame is not the same, the TNGA system is about assembly line efficiency. So the 250 and 300 frames are similar in the way they are manufactured but not identical. He never mentions the suspension at all. Lastly, Toyota already said the quiet part out loud by making the 250 series and the GX550. The G stands for Not a Land Cruiser.
J1000
Rising Sun Member
Toyota made the big deal about it. They made a huge deal out of discontinuing the 200 series. "No more Land Cruiser in USA." Then they wait a couple years and say "Land Cruiser is back baby!" Sorry not sorry.
- Next year, you can buy a Toyota Land Cruiser that Toyota says is a Land Cruiser but enthusiasts say isn't a true Land Cruiser.
- Right now, you can buy a Lexus LX that Toyota calls an LX not a Land Cruiser but enthusiasts will tell you is the real Land Cruiser.
- The enthusiasts won't buy either of these anyway, but are hoping to pick up a clean 1986 FJ60 with mouse-eaten wiring from a mythical barn for $1000.
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Exactly, but you forgot rust free on the barn find.
DaveInDenver
Rising Sun Ham Guru
’Tis but thy name that is my truck;
Thou art thyself though, not a Land Cruiser.
What’s Land Cruiser? it is nor frame, nor engine,
Nor suspension, nor grill, nor any other part
Belonging to a brand.
Oh! be some other name:
What’s in a name? that which we call a Toyota
By any other name would smell as sweet;
So Cruiserhead would, were he not Cruiserhead call’d,
Retain that dear perfection which he owes
Without that title. Cruiserhead, doff thy name;
And for that name, which is no part of thee,
Take all myself.
--Kiichiro Toyoda (probably)
Thou art thyself though, not a Land Cruiser.
What’s Land Cruiser? it is nor frame, nor engine,
Nor suspension, nor grill, nor any other part
Belonging to a brand.
Oh! be some other name:
What’s in a name? that which we call a Toyota
By any other name would smell as sweet;
So Cruiserhead would, were he not Cruiserhead call’d,
Retain that dear perfection which he owes
Without that title. Cruiserhead, doff thy name;
And for that name, which is no part of thee,
Take all myself.
--Kiichiro Toyoda (probably)
Sure, now Mr Hilux is mocking us. But I appreciate his poetry.