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Winch Suggestions

Parksnwrecks

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I am looking for winches to put on my N280 that will fit on a C4 overland bumper. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
P.S. does anyone have any experience installing a bumper on the gen 5 4runner?
 

RayRay27

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Not familiar with N280 or C4 but I would think the company or person who built it would have recommendations for winch sizes. Do you have any photos of the bumper for reference? Comeup winches are great and can be mounted in many different configurations. Price isn't too crazy either. How heavy is your rig? That will also affect which winch you buy. 1.5 x fully loaded vehicle weight is a good rule of thumb.
 

Hulk

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This is the C4 Fabrication "Overland" bumper? C4 says this about the Overland bumper:
  • Fits most winches 8k-12k in size. Winches with the ability to relocate the electrical control box are recommended. Integrated control box winches may require some trimming of the grille support brackets to fit. (ComeUp, Smittybilt X20, Warn Zeon and VR series are all common winches that fit).
  • We recommend using winches with synthetic rope and a hawse style fairlead for the best fitment and functionality. Some roller fairleads may be too large to fit the recessed fairlead mounting plate in the bumper.
They sell these winches with the bumper, so these should be guaranteed to fit:
I've never heard of SCAR winches.

Keep in mind, a winch is a piece of equipment that gets used rarely. It is not essential to own one before you hit the trails.


4RunnerOverlandSeriesFrontBumper5thGen2014_-5_2000x.png
 

unimogguy

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To add to what Matt said….

I don’t know what your actual use of the vehicle/winch will be. Which can dictate your decisions.

For my trucks that see adventures off-road and sometimes without other vehicles around. I’ve never been upset when I spent money on a quality well known winch from a company that has built a solid reputation overtime. When you need a winch you need a winch and I don’t want to have to wonder if it’ll preform or not.
 

subzali

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To add to what Matt said….

I don’t know what your actual use of the vehicle/winch will be. Which can dictate your decisions.

For my trucks that see adventures off-road and sometimes without other vehicles around. I’ve never been upset when I spent money on a quality well known winch from a company that has built a solid reputation overtime. When you need a winch you need a winch and I don’t want to have to wonder if it’ll preform or not.
While I've always liked Warn for being USA made and having good customer service and parts support, I have seen a solenoid fail on the trail that caused a scare when it was stuck on and two vehicles were connected together. Thankfully Tom Rompies had the presence of mind to switch the winch to freespool until we were able to get the battery disconnected. And the recovered vehicle wasn't in a precarious position.

And I guess YouTube influencers have been, well, influencing me. Matt's Offroad Recovery, Trail Mater, Casey LaDelle all use Harbor Freight Apex 12000 winches on their recovery rigs. These winches get way more use than mine probably ever will, and I don't think they've had to replace one yet that I've seen. Casey LaDelle has a video or two where he specifically explains why he has removed Warns from all of his rigs in favor of the Apex winches. It comes down to him having an experience or two where a Warn motor or solenoid fail, and for him that is unacceptable and the Apex has been more reliable.

So I don't know where I stand with winch selection right now. I'm happy to continue with having my three Warns mounted in my bumpers, but might be giving it some harder thought if I was actually in the market to buy something.
 

Parksnwrecks

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Thanks everyone for all the feedback. I ended up going with a smittybilt 10k. It fits well in the C4 fab bumper and got good reviews. I got it from 4 wheel parts; which i usually never shop at. I also got the 3 year no questions asked warranty along with it. I do a lot of offload trails solo so this will be a nice insurance policy. Thanks again.
 

subzali

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I'm sure a Youtube influencer has no conflict of interest or endorsements to cloud things, right?
Maybe some of them do, but Casey LaDelle I don’t think is sponsored by Harbor Freight/Apex and reportedly made the change due to his preference in the product.

Of course we all have our own opinions on all this.
 

Notyourmomslx450

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I'm happy to continue with having my three Warns mounted in my bumpers
I'm with you! I like my Warns!
The M8000 on Lisa's 4Runner i bought used for 2 or 300, 15 years ago and has never given me any problems.
The 12k Warn on my 80 has been perfect when needed as well, but it's only 5ish years old.
 

DaveInDenver

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I'm with you! I like my Warns!
The M8000 on Lisa's 4Runner i bought used for 2 or 300, 15 years ago and has never given me any problems.
The 12k Warn on my 80 has been perfect when needed as well, but it's only 5ish years old.
I'm an unapologetic Warn fanboy, too. I've rebuilt my now 26 year old XD9000 twice since I've owned it.

Warn still makes pretty much the exact same winch in 2025 (part number 28500) with only a couple of cosmetic differences between it and mine. All the critical parts in the gearbox and brake are unchanged since they designed the thing and it's still made in Clackamas, Oregon, USA. They even still will honor the warranty on it (lifetime for mechanicals) and sent me a new hex shaft for free since my original had little candy cane twist in it after 19 years (at the time) of use. That happened the time Marco and I bridged my Tacoma all four wheel dangling and asked the winch to lift my truck straight up following a SxS line by mistake on Top of the World.

The solenoid pack is completely different but I rewired mine with an Albright solid state contactor a few years ago anyway. That was after I literally smoked solenoids getting Daniel out of snowy ditch in the Swell.

I don't know about the Zeons and all the other newer models but their core M8/10/12/15, M8274 and commercial models may be a hard to swallow upfront price but in my sample size of one are (so far) a once-in-a-lifetime outlay. Whether I'd drop the $2k they get a for a new XD9 at my age now, maybe not. But I dropped the coin at 28 originally, and I'm coming up on 54, that's pretty good ROI.
 
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timmbuck2

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I have used the badlands winches on 4 rigs for years with no issues. The newer versions seem especially stout.
 

NotyourmomsWife

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I have a warn M8000 on my 3rd gen
 

allen.wrench

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Forgive me. I have sinned :) HF ITC this week has the 12,000 lbf Apex for $480.

For the current $480 price, multiple people's good experiences over the years, and the expected traffic price hikes: I chose to risk buying the Apex. Worst case I will sell it later-on for $480, and maybe even with a potential profit. Best case in a lil bit I'll add it to a bumper and use it happily many years.

Regardless of Apex or Warn, I like the idea you mention Dave. I expect solid state is generally a better option for switching hundreds of amps to a motor, considering inductive kick and arc welding of contacts. How is the Albright contactor holding up? In your opinion does the winch perform better/worse than with the stock electromechanical relay?

Allen

1744227188609.png
 

DaveInDenver

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@allen.wrench, I should be more precise with language. I used an Albright DC88 contactor (Warn's replacement part number would be 34971). It's sealed but not solid state.


albright_dc88_mid.png

A true solid state is much more expensive. That is not what I used.

vrs_solidstate_mid.png

To answer your question, I'd think solid state would have advantages but at these sorts of currents introduces new concerns. Having low enough impedance is critical and mechanical solenoids have an advantage here in cost per ohm. I can't find the receipt for this but I want to say it about $80 for the contactor.

The Warn 65319 was their solid state (MOSFET) upgrade path, which was like $1000 (I think it's discontinued) That VRS solid state is AU$A240, which in Murican $ is probably, what, $10,000 with exchange and tariffs? True solid state controllers are going to be expensive and hard to justify IMO.

That said, the Albright has been solid for me. If you have an older control box with the 4 solenoid configuration this is a worthwhile upgrade in reliability and simplifying the wiring.
 
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timmbuck2

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Forgive me. I have sinned :) HF ITC this week has the 12,000 lbf Apex for $480.

For the current $480 price, multiple people's good experiences over the years, and the expected traffic price hikes: I chose to risk buying the Apex. Worst case I will sell it later-on for $480, and maybe even with a potential profit. Best case in a lil bit I'll add it to a bumper and use it happily many years.

Regardless of Apex or Warn, I like the idea you mention Dave. I expect solid state is generally a better option for switching hundreds of amps to a motor, considering inductive kick and arc welding of contacts. How is the Albright contactor holding up? In your opinion does the winch perform better/worse than with the stock electromechanical relay?

Allen

View attachment 142336

I got mine even cheaper in their big sale last winter. Something like $289? I had to go to 3 stores, and literally race a guy from the Englewood store to the one in Broomfield to get the last one!
 

Corbet

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I’ve been considering the Albright for a long time but the old tractor solenoids have always worked. Last time I replaced the rope I put in new solenoids just because they were old and replacing them is easy & cheap.
 

DaveInDenver

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I’ve been considering the Albright for a long time but the old tractor solenoids have always worked. Last time I replaced the rope I put in new solenoids just because they were old and replacing them is easy & cheap.
If you're doing a single solenoid it's a completely fine way to go. Get decent brand parts, the Prestolite 15-487 (SAZ-4201EY) or equivalent should be $25, give or take. Any NAPA and a pair of crimpers will get you going again. There's much value in that approach.

I burnt up a couple so the Albright was a marginal difference. If you're doing more than two solenoids in the pack then it's going to be cheaper to jump ship to the monoblock style.
 

Inukshuk

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@allen.wrench, I should be more precise with language. I used an Albright DC88 contactor (Warn's replacement part number would be 34971). It's sealed but not solid state.


View attachment 142340

With the XD 9000 being able to pull 478 amps,
1744233807970.png

why is this adequately sized?

1744233725650.png
 

DaveInDenver

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With the XD 9000 being able to pull 478 amps,
View attachment 142344
why is this adequately sized?

View attachment 142343
This is a great question about component sizing.

I'll mention that those solenoids (Prestolite 15-487) are rated 100A and only two are switched on at a time. So it's not a question that's limited to the DC88. I smoked stock solenoids after all.

Also the question relates to the size of cable you need to use and why Warn supplying 4AWG and 2AWG is OK when the charts seem to indicate you should use 1/0AWG.

The first thing to know is the 9000 lbs and 478A values are based on locked rotor values. That means the point where the maximum torque is developed (thus max current) but this for an electric motor is at zero RPM. So no practical work is done, so this is a baseline but not the only value.

Also you'll notice immediate that 478A isn't even going to match the motor rating. Warn calls the motor on an XD9000 a 4.5HP motor. The electrical equivalent is watts and is related to HP as 1HP = 746W. If you remember the electrical formula for watts it's voltage times current.

So if you take 4.5HP that should be 3,357 watts, what at nominal 12V is 280 amps. That's the motor's working rating. If you ask it to do work at 478A that's 7.69HP. So the real world doesn't match the datasheet maximums.

The motor will do 478A/7.69HP but only very briefly right as it stalls or starts. It can't really do more than 4.5HP for any significant length of time.

The trickery here is that Warn (and they are not unique) know that you aren't going to ask this winch to do 9000 lbs of work continuously, all the time. There are winches designed for that and they are physically larger. There's reasons why it's this way but suffice to say it's also why recovery winches are NOT designed for overhead or critical uses. If it was an XD9000 would be given a WLL much less. I don't know exactly, but it would surely be under 1,000 lbs and I'm sure there's braking or auto latching features it would need as well.

So back to how we can use this contactor.


We've already established that an XD9000 is really only a ~5000 lbs winch (based on 4.5HP, 280A). Now even that number is going to be subject to duty cycle and actual use.

The numbers Albright give are indefinite, meaning no time limit. At 30% duty cycle but with no limit it'll do 185A forever. It's about how much heat builds up and can be shed over time. They assume that 30% duty might mean you run it 3 minutes on, 7 minutes off. Or 18 minutes on, 42 minutes off. Or who knows. It's just given that you have some amount of off time for the on time to arrive at a duty cycle.

So if you know and limit overall use the device can handle more power. So if we use a more realistic ~280A max and figure normally we ask it do even that much it might be for say 5 minutes, 300 seconds. Then we're right on the curve, maybe slightly aggressive. But we also know that at that much current the motor itself is going to be hot and need a rest, too, so it's not an unreasonable assumption to think our average power is lower and times are probably less aggressive.

Screenshot 2025-04-09 at 16.31.55.png

There's another spec you need to look at. The maximum interrupt value.

For a DC88 that's 600A. So if you do stall at 478A but let go right away the contactor shouldn't weld itself closed.

Screenshot 2025-04-09 at 16.04.47.png


I'll leave cable sizing (and fuse/breaker if you choose to use them) for another discussion but the same principle applies. You don't ask the motor to consume 478A forever without a break. So if you figure 280A is your real peak and even that isn't constant you'll find that you really don't need a 1/0AWG or 500A fuse. It's basically about average heating, not peak values. We are a little loose with values because the whole system is a balancing act of theoretical capacity vs actual use cases.

We don't really need 9,000 lbs of winch just like Toyota says your engine has 239HP but 99% of the time you use more like 50 or 100. Good thing, too, since asking your engine to run at 100% rated HP constantly would kill it fast, too.
 
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