DaveInDenver
Rising Sun Ham Guru
The railroads figured it out 60 years ago. Run a diesel engine constantly at its most efficient RPM as a generator and use electric motors that are most efficient at producing torque to motivate.
so who's ordering a Rivian?
- Thread starter nakman
- Start date
Oh yeah, that's right! I remember a CSX commercial a while back saying they moved so many thousands of tons of cargo 1000 miles on just 9 gallons of fuel. I'm sure there is some skew to that statement but even adjusted by 20 - 30%, that's pretty amazing!
gungriffin
Rising Sun Member
This is not how the Volt works. There was a lot of confusion in the beginning about this, but it came to light that the engine is a direct drive to the wheels. It is not a generator.
I believe that BMW was one of the only companies (in the US) to employ the engine as a charger only. They actually got into some hot water though, as the engine wasn't powerful enough. This led to owner's of the i3 finding themselves in dangerous situations when on the highway going up hills and not having enough power to go more than about 35 MPH on the engine generator.
This is directly off of Chevy's website.
And this is off of Wikipedia. I'll admit Wiki isn't the best resource but the information is a lot better than in the beginning...
So yeah, the gas engine is there for the primary purpose of being a generator with the option of being connected to the drive axle.
gungriffin
Rising Sun Member
Thanks for the clarification. I am not sure what I had in mind for how this works now that I think about it. I guess that I was thinking you were saying that all the power for acceleration flowed through the batteries and I see now that you weren't. Don't most hybrids recharge using the engine as well? Or do most hybrids only recharge through regenerative braking? I guess it all depends on where the electric motor is in the drive train.
I will say that the Volt seems like the best solution I have seen in the game so far. It is the ONLY Chevrolet that I would ever consider buying. Too bad they canceled the vehicle this year.
No worries. My understanding about the other hybrids is that they only use the electric motor for initial take off and the gas motor kicks in after the vehicle is at a cruising speed. That is why they will advertise better city MPG than highway MPG. Then they do recharge the battery system off the motor while driving as well as regenerative braking.
And to clarify, I think the concept is great, though I'm not super confident Chevy executed it properly. Although the LS series motors are engineering marvels, GM has yet to show they can put together a complete car that is capable of long term reliability.
GM is discontinuing the Volt in March. But staying in the EV game with reportedly changing focus to SUV/Truck development. Makes sense seeing as the domestic market is in love with big vehicles regardless of need. We as a group are of no exception. I've just changed over to the daily driver semi econobox plan a couple years ago in order to save my 80. However, I have to have AWD in order to even get to my house in the winter. Otherwise I'd own a Prius now. But "Prius" is just an old Native American world for "Super crappy car in the snow"
Ok we gotta get you guys on back on track here... watch this: https://stories.rivian.com/this-is-rivian?mc_cid=cc3279438e&mc_eid=1e5fafca4d
also on
also on
DanTheMan
Rising Sun Member
I like the idea of it, time for Toyota to step up their game! Maybe a future platform for Toyota's trucks and SUV's?
mcgaskins
Rising Sun Member
Great video. It's exciting to see startups like this disrupting the industry, and I think we're lucky to see enthusiast like cars out of companies like Rivian and Tesla. If you asked me 10 years ago what I thought the future of electric cars would look like, I would have never guessed a family sedan like the P100D going 0-60 in under 3 seconds or the Rivian that appears to be a pretty bad ass truck. I love my sub 15 mpg Land Cruisers, but wow the future is bright.
Yeah, until gas is back up to over $4/gallon across the entire the country (I know it's already there in CA) I don't think there's enough of a demand for the cars. I say that, but I see numerous Tesla's every day on my commute. But then again, Tesla's are a lot sexier than a Chevy Volt.
mcgaskins
Rising Sun Member
Updating this post I made in November. I just picked up a Tesla Model 3 this week to replace my daily driver, and I'm basically sold on electric power after 3 days. If the Rivian comes even close to what they're promising, it will be the game changer guys like us are hoping for. Honestly if the Rivian was available right now, I'd probably sell 4 of our 5 cars (2 are getting sold with the Tesla arrival) to get the Rivian pickup.
Also I have some "inside" knowledge that a revered veteran off road expert many of the guys in the club know is consulting for Rivian to help make the truck capable and appealing to off roaders. They are serious about making the truck viable for all terrain, and it's showing in their R&D. Obviously there are many hurdles they'll need to overcome before it's ready for prime time, but even with my short electric car ownership I'm bullish on electric power as the future.
gungriffin
Rising Sun Member
I would have bought a Tesla if I didn't live in an apartment complex. The issues with charging were ones that I didn't want to deal with. If you drive quite a few miles, an extended range full electric vehicle is usually an easy decision.
Rivian would also start with a 7500 federal tax credit and (I believe) the 5000 state tax credit.
MTSN does the Model 3 still qualify for the full state tax credit? Isn't the federal credit down to 3750?
mcgaskins
Rising Sun Member
Yes you are correct - the federal $7500 starts to phase out when a manufacturer has sold 200k cars, and then it starts to halve. The current federal tax credit for Telsa is $3,750 and the CO tax credit is $5k. The Tesla federal tax credit will halve again on 6/30, but the CO one looks like it will remain until 2022 pending any legislative changes. Rivian would be eligible for the full $7500 + $5000 for CO residents assuming nothing changes between now and then.
I was able to get a pretty sweet deal because they were pushing to bump their Q1 numbers, and I bought a "discontinued" model which is the mid range battery pack. The MR was created as a stop gap in 3Q17 to offer a less expensive model until the standard range (the fabled $35k car) was available, so the MR is essentially a long range/LR car with the same features but with slightly less range (~40 miles less). Tesla released the SR about a month ago and canceled the MR because the margins weren't good on the MR since you get all the premium stuff from a LR for a much lower price. The SR is a good car, but they removed a bunch of cool features to get the price point right - standard vs premium maps, no traffic on the maps, no web browser, no leather, no power seats, no streaming internet radio, etc. They now also offer a SR+ model which basically adds leather and front heated seats and a little bit more range, but the model lineup got a bit complicated for a bit with SR, SR+, MR, LR, LR AWD, LR AWD Performance... Anyways I ended up getting a sweet deal and basically paid the same as an SR+ car but got a much better equipped car, and next year on my taxes I'll get $8,750 in credits. Oh and the maintenance costs are close to zero, insurance is about half what it costs for our 2008 200, and the equivalent cost to get 280 miles of range is about $6-8 as opposed to $53 in the 200. With the deal plus the tax credits and high residual, it will make driving it for a couple years ridiculously cheap.
gungriffin
Rising Sun Member
Nice find. Sounds like you did some serious research. The fueling costs on electric vehicles is just amazing. It will be quite awesome to have those advantages on an even larger vehicle like the Rivian!
Good lord, that sounds like a deal. I'm paying $250/mo. for premium gasoline for my 10-year-old Infiniti. Maybe I should buy a Tesla!
@MTSN , so reading all of your numbers, and then sort of guestimating the same approach with the Rivian in a few years, a trip to Moab would be cheap AF!!! The Rivian will supposedly have a range of around 410 miles and it's 350 miles-ish to Moab. So you drive out, charge up while you sleep that first night, run trails, charge, repeat, then drive back all for like $40 - $60!! This thing is going to be a game changer!
gungriffin
Rising Sun Member
Something else that is a game changer is how low the center of gravity is for electric vehicles. There also won't be drive shafts hanging down. It could be like having portal axles only better. It should make going over obstacles easier.
mcgaskins
Rising Sun Member
Absolutely - this will make things like off camber situations much easier too. Individual motors on each wheel that can be independently driven will make for some (potentially) insane capabilities too like turning tires in opposite directions, simulating lockers when appropriate, etc. I'm a car guy through and through and have been very reluctant to even consider anything electric, but it's the way of the future and just dipping my toes into it has been very exciting.