I think I may have ruined my engine (97 1fz)

[Inukshuk]

https://cosprings.craigslist.org/pts/d/colorado-springs-selling-whole-part-out/6849537885.html

WHOLE TRUCK NOW FOR SALE, COME GET IT!
Still in it:
...
engine and trans, low miles @145k and ran great before accident
...

 

[coax]

Thanks everyone for the responses and insight. Two general updates:
1. The whole oil level thing seems to have been a red herring. Drained the oil and got about 7.5 quarts out. I have no idea why the oil level was reading so high even a day after (and sitting on flat/level surface). And took measurement multiple times cleaning dipstick each time. Only thing that comes to mind was maybe some pressurization of crankcase pushed some oil up the tube?? I honestly have no idea.
2. There was zero sign of any metal in the oil. Bottom of my oil drain pan was clean, the fine metal screen in my funnel that I use to dump the oil into jugs had no shavings/bits on it. No metalic shimmer to the oil either.

I'd think if you had that much water in the crankcase to push the level up a quart or two the dipstick would have been chocolate foam.

But that said it sure sounds like a rod knock to me but is it possible for a 1FZ to slip timing? A 22R could jump a tooth on the timing chain and it could sound a little like that if the valve float got bad enough to kiss the piston.

I'm not enough of an expert to know if the chain could slip. And while I didn't run it for very long at all after the noise started, there is no check engine light and it seems to idle fairly smooth still.

I agree that it sounds like a rod knock. That oil level increase really has me baffled. Even if you lost an entire rod, I don't think it would be enough to raise the oil level that much. (nevermind the fact that it would jave probably gone through the oil pan)

Agreed! No idea what was going on there; you all were totally spot on to doubt the increase!

Power steering front seal/bearing failure? Steering pump gear failure or front bearing failure can sound like a rod knock. Perhaps it pumped PS fluid into the engine?

Power steering is leaking a bit...no PS fluid in the engine oil though after draining it. Interesting that the pump gear/bearing failure could be an issue! Pump is original w/ original bearing.

Sounds like a rod knock, also sounded low on compression during the crank before it started. Pretty much exactly like the one in my garage with the rod out the oil pan.

I would skip right to draining the oil and pulling the pan to inspect the rod bearings.

Is your crank pulley bolt tight at the 303 ft lbs or whatever it is?

I don't have a torque wrench handy to check that high, but no change in steering effort. Haven't done any work on that either so thinking the crank pulley bolt is still ok. Interesting the bit about low compression!

If you have a rod going out, the bearing is going to be in the oil, so when you drain the oil, you may find some bits of metal. take a magnet to it, and see if you have only bearing material, or if you have both fine metal and aluminum(if both, more than likely piston slap). I would not run the engine any more. If you have a compression gauge, you can do a compression test. You may find one reading a bit low, or you may have a few reading low. If you find one real low or no compression, then you may have piston slap where the rings are tore up in the cylinder wall.
I would not pull the pan, as it may be a waste of time. IN order to see the crank, you need to pull both the steel pan and the aluminum pan. Lot of work, if you can pin it down to what cylinder. If you have compression or no compression, you may have some answers with out too much work.

Thanks Robbie; I think my next step will now be to do the compression test. Based on that then possibly pull valve cover and see if anything amiss. In a failure like this where it was immediate and apparent that something was wrong, would one typically find metal bits in the oil? Curious as it didn't seem to be slow decline in engine performance/slow increase in noise...but happened drastically. Maybe possible some issue on the top end if no metal in the oil or maybe just wishful thinking

 

[coax]

https://cosprings.craigslist.org/pts/d/colorado-springs-selling-whole-part-out/6849537885.html

WHOLE TRUCK NOW FOR SALE, COME GET IT!
Still in it:
...
engine and trans, low miles @145k and ran great before accident
...

Thanks for the link! I'm in a bit of a pickle right now where I would have no way to transport nor a way to store a spare engine...for probably at least a few months. I really appreciate you forwarding on! Seems like there are a few engines out there for sale...I hope if I need one I can still track one down

 

[ccslider]

https://cosprings.craigslist.org/pts/d/colorado-springs-selling-whole-part-out/6849537885.html

WHOLE TRUCK NOW FOR SALE, COME GET IT!
Still in it:
...
engine and trans, low miles @145k and ran great before accident
...

The engine is sold. That was a deal for such low miles.

 

[Dmitry]

There is a five part video series on diagnosing a Cruiser that came in with an engine knock similar to yours. These guys are methodical, and they eliminate a lot of possibilities before confirming the bad news. I think one of the RS members even contributed to their diagnostic effort early in the series.

 

[coax]

Ok continuing this thread; finally gotten to the point where I can dive into this. Slowly getting things pulled out. Today's project is to remove the head.

I expected large damage on the head but I'm not experienced enough with internals of engines to know... interested in how the rocker surfaces look to folks on here?? Are they typically mirror finishes? to the touch they are very smooth but I know thats not a real measurement...

 

[Corbet]

Looks pretty clean. You’ll have to pull all those bearing caps to fully inspect the cam. What sucks is the cam rides on the actual head surface. Not a replaceable bearing like the crank. So if those surfaces are bad the head is not a good rebuild candidate. Mine had some pretty bad groves.

If all the valves look OK I’d probably plan on a head rebuild. But inspect the bottom end first. If you need a block I just picked mine back up from the shop. Head is off. Not red flags are present. But have not pulled the pans off the bottom yet.

I don’t claim to be any kind of expert either.

 

[coax]

Looks pretty clean. You’ll have to pull all those bearing caps to fully inspect the cam. What sucks is the cam rides on the actual head surface. Not a replaceable bearing like the crank. So if those surfaces are bad the head is not a good rebuild candidate. Mine had some pretty bad groves.

If all the valves look OK I’d probably plan on a head rebuild. But inspect the bottom end first. If you need a block I just picked mine back up from the shop. Head is off. Not red flags are present. But have not pulled the pans off the bottom yet.

I don’t claim to be any kind of expert either.

Thanks Corbet! Unless I find something extra crazy, I'm planning on having some machine work done on the block and have ordered new pistons/rings/etc. Crossing fingers that the crank isn't toasted. I'm thinking I'll maybe check valve clearances before I pull the head just to see what its at and then set the head aside and keep goign into the block since i suspect thats where most of the damage is.

 

[rover67]

I can't tell if it's the reflection or if the tips of the cam lobes have funny wear, either way holy crap that motor looks clean inside. Somebody stayed on top of oil changes. I bet what I am seeing is a reflection.

Measure the valve clearances and write them down, remove the cams per the FSM. Don't let the buckets fall out when you pull the head and sure as hell don't mix up where the buckets and respective shims go.

 

[Corbet]

Thanks Corbet! Unless I find something extra crazy, I'm planning on having some machine work done on the block and have ordered new pistons/rings/etc. Crossing fingers that the crank isn't toasted. I'm thinking I'll maybe check valve clearances before I pull the head just to see what its at and then set the head aside and keep goign into the block since i suspect thats where most of the damage is.

If you need a crank I can make you a hell of a deal. I have an "art" project planned for the block but not so much for the crank. If you needed both for any reason let me know. I'd rather it breath new life into another rig than essentially be scrapped. It was suggested that I use the crank as a portion of a grander pedestal.

 

[coax]

Ran through a quick check of the valves. All in spec but a little variance in some of the intakes on the tight side.

Intake
1a 6/7
1b 6/7
2a 8
2b 8/9
3a 6/7
3b 7
4a 8
4b 8
5a 7
5b 8
6a 7
6b 6

Exhaust
1a 12
1b 12
2a 12
2b 11
3a 12
3b 12
4a 12
4b 12
5a 12
5b 12
6a 11
6b 11

 

[coax]

I can't tell if it's the reflection or if the tips of the cam lobes have funny wear, either way holy crap that motor looks clean inside. Somebody stayed on top of oil changes. I bet what I am seeing is a reflection.

Measure the valve clearances and write them down, remove the cams per the FSM. Don't let the buckets fall out when you pull the head and sure as hell don't mix up where the buckets and respective shims go.

Awesome thanks for the feedback! I basically ran rotella t6 synthetic 5/40 every 10k miles and used yzzd3 filters (except for the one that killed the engine). PO I am sure was much more negligent so the last 100k or so was mine.

I'll try and grab a few more pictures of the tips of the cam lobes. from a quick glance it just looks like they are more polished but I'll check for symetry when I pull the head this eve.

Valve clearances above. Robbie did the HG about 90k ago so maybe one reason they are pretty all spot on. Thoughts if I should try to get some of the intakes a bit more in spec and closer to the 8 thousandths? And thanks for hte pointer on not messing up the buckets shims! I'll take my time...I'm kinda nervous anyway so going slowly

 

[coax]

If you need a crank I can make you a hell of a deal. I have an "art" project planned for the block but not so much for the crank. If you needed both for any reason let me know. I'd rather it breath new life into another rig than essentially be scrapped. It was suggested that I use the crank as a portion of a grander pedestal.

If you don't mind holding onto the crank for a few more days that would be amazing!! I'm hopeful that mine is serviceable but if not, being able to avoid buying new would be super cool! I'd have to figure out how to get it to/from durango but I'd bet even shipping far cheaper than a new crank. And I'd be happy to get you my old one for your art project

 

[rover67]

Quick question, why dont youflip it and see what's up in the bottom end first? I guess you are committing to a full rebuild? well maybe minus the head? I mean if Robbie did the head gasket 90k ago he probably rebuilt the head also, I'm not sure any of that is worth even beginning to touch. I guess it depends how far yawanna go with it.

 

[Corbet]

If you don't mind holding onto the crank for a few more days that would be amazing!!

If I simply get the ending out of my trailer and into the garage in a few days that will be amazing. Supposed to snow Thursday so my goal is to keep it dry.

 

[ccslider]

Quick question, why dont youflip it and see what's up in the bottom end first? I guess you are committing to a full rebuild? well maybe minus the head? I mean if Robbie did the head gasket 90k ago he probably rebuilt the head also, I'm not sure any of that is worth even beginning to touch. I guess it depends how far yawanna go with it.

Yeah just rotate it over and pull the pan before the head.

That engine is so clean!

Before you just zip the crank pulley off id be curious if it was torqued to the 306 ft lbs or 304 whatever it is.

 

[coax]

Quick question, why dont youflip it and see what's up in the bottom end first? I guess you are committing to a full rebuild? well maybe minus the head? I mean if Robbie did the head gasket 90k ago he probably rebuilt the head also, I'm not sure any of that is worth even beginning to touch. I guess it depends how far yawanna go with it.

Well, so I think at this point I'm leaning towards the "in for a penny in for a pound" route My reasoning was that its so much work (for me at least) in terms of time and space to pull the engine (as I'm pretty comfortable doing intermediate mechanical stuff but engines are a stretch) that I figure i'd stack my odds and try to make sure things last as long as possible. So I've got a set of +1 toyo pistons and rings sitting here, and will probably replace a fair bit of stuff while i'm in here. Figured now is the time to make it 2% faster and ensure that everything looks solid.

Now, it could bite me if I pull the head and it warps a bit. Its already been machined once so if it warps again I'm tracking down a new head...which is pricey! But I just don't imagine finding the time or getting the whole garage again in the near future that I'll feel better if I get all the way in there, replace aux stuff like chain, tensioner, slipper, all the seals, etc.

Yeah just rotate it over and pull the pan before the head.

That engine is so clean!

Before you just zip the crank pulley off id be curious if it was torqued to the 306 ft lbs or 304 whatever it is.

Yep it was at spec I believe. Took a 3/4 breaker bar with cheater handle to break loose. And when I did my last radiator replacement I used an actual 3/4 torque wrench so it was set to the correct torque.


I'll update this tomorrow...work took up too much time today so hopefully will tear into the rest of it tomorrow.
Thanks everyone for the input/feedback! Really helpful for a novice thats never been into an engine!

 

[rover67]

sounds good, I'm excited (sorry) to see what's up in there.

 

[Corbet]

If you do a full rebuild you’ll have more that a 2% gain. My truck pulling a 1500lb trailer drives the same maybe still faster than it did pre rebuild without. Hills that it used to downshift for it will generally climb in one gear higher. Can’t wait to get the turbo on post Covid.

 

[coax]

If you do a full rebuild you’ll have more that a 2% gain. My truck pulling a 1500lb trailer drives the same maybe still faster than it did pre rebuild without. Hills that it used to downshift for it will generally climb in one gear higher. Can’t wait to get the turbo on post Covid.

Thats awesome to hear and would be amazing (I'm looking at getting a small trailer too). I'm also gonna do the turbo bung bit just in case I find that extra money....I'm super envious of the turbo you've got going on. I think that is one of the game changers in terms of overall comfort and drivability. I'm hoping my new steering box is another one of those.