I think I may have ruined my engine (97 1fz)

[coax]

So I had a bit of an adventure heading back over monarch pass to crested butte last night.

In second gear headed up the pass, ~3600rpm, suddenly lose power and engine makes a pretty bad noise. Immediately get off the throttle and coast a bit....try throttle again and with anything other then very slight throttle, bad noise comes back. Hard to describe the noise...kind of like a loud, mid pitched groan or something. Pull off right after and take a peek at things.

-Engine Temp Normal/Coolant Level Normal
-Engine Oil level normal. No dash lights for oil level warning
-No dash warning lights at all.
-Removed Oil cap, and got a bit of smoke/vapor coming out. Not sure if normal or indicating burning oil. Have never opened the oil cap right after a hard pull at high RPM.
-No change in power steering effort. Have not messed with the crank bolt in probably 90k miles.
-Oil pressure on dash gauge not registering anything...which is typical for my cruiser that I have chalked up to bad sender in the past. Sometimes wiggling the wires on the sender gets the gauge to work. Sometimes it doesn't. This time it seemed the gauge wasn't even working...most times the needle is just very very low and doesn't move with engine RPM. Been that way where its just low for probably 60k miles or more. So didn't put any thought into the fact the needle wasn't even registering. Hasn't really registered in probably 500 miles or more.

At this point started it back up...tried to drive just a few feet forward up the road slowly and got the same bad engine noise. Conceded failure at this point and called a tow truck to get back to Crested Butte.

Dumped off tow truck by the house, was able to start it up and have a much louder clicking/ticking sound...but was able to back it into the driveway without the crazy loud engine noise...which kind of made sense as really no real throttle needed to back it into a flat spot. Idle is louder than it was but still runs.

So...now I'm headed down this path of did I actually lose oil pressure....either because of oil pump failure (which is extremely rare i gather) or because maybe the oil filter failed. Or maybe some completely other failure.

My plan to investigate:
-Pull spark plugs and just take a peek.
-Buy an oil pressure test gauge and see what that says. Any one have a recomendation on a good one to buy? Was thinking this one: https://www.amazon.com/OTC-Tools-56...re+test+gauge&qid=1555599747&s=gateway&sr=8-3
-Maybe pull the oil filter and put in a new one and see if the noise quiets down.

Anyone else have some suggestions on what to take a look at? At this point I have a feeling that there is damage done to the engine...just trying to figure out what and why to build a plan for repair/replace.

I'll try and grab a video of the loud idle.

Corey

 

[DaveInDenver]

It's not clear to me, is the noise present with the truck stopped and in park? I'd probably not suspect a sudden oil pump failure but it could have been failing for a long time and the persistent low oil pressure finally caught up to you. Spun bearing or something. Could other things, like the head gasket failed.

I'd do a fluid change looking for debris in the oil, mixed coolant and oil, etc.

 

[coax]

Thanks for the reply Dave! When truck is just idling and stopped, there is a much louder than normal ticking noise. (Uploading video now).

If I was to be driving and give it throttle, then noise is something like a really loud groan and power loss.

Here's a picture of the oil cap..looks normal. Also a picture of the dip stick...which does not look normal! Oil should be dead even between low and full....and was when I measured the oil last night. Haven't changed the oil in probably 4-5k miles. And I check fill level afterwards to confirm...no idea why the dip stick shows probably like 2 quarts over full now but didn't last night.

 

[coax]

 

[nakman]

I will just toss out a guess here, but if the oil level really rose up then it had to be displaced by something. Like image the intake for the oil pump, it's a long doodad with a screen on the end, and it fits down into that lower well in the oil pan, if it were to fall off then it would push the oil level up, and you'd see that rise on the dipstick. Also your oil level sensor is held on by just one bolt, iirc... seems unlikely but that's another thing that could kerplunk down in there? I think after you drain the oil you might find something in there... so next move after that might be popping that oil pan off, so you can look at the bottom end. Just not sure how much downtime you can absorb, it's a decent day to pull the pan, at least for me. and you'd want to have a new gasket around for putting it back on.

 

[coax]

Thanks for the reply! I'm not in a hurry to get this sorted as its summer and can drive my old Jetta for a while if need be. I too agree, something must have displaced the oil. The oil itself looks still "ok"...and so does the PS fluid level so no cross over there in some odd way. Coolant also seems about where it should be so I think you may be right...some physical engine bit may have fallen into the oil. I'll drain the oil and see what transpires.

 

[rover67]

Maybe but how much oil would it take to increase the lever that much?? You said 2qts? I don't think parts falling into the oil caused it to go up that much, I really don't.

As for the knock, it sounds kinda faint for a rod... but maybe? could be valve related? Pop off the valve cover and have a look around? remove some spark plugs and see if water shoots out? Whatever you do don't drive it without at least draining the oil to make sure no water is in i because if the bottom end isn't gone now it'll go for sure with water in the oil.

 

[LARGEONE]

Maybe take the valve cover off and drop the oil pan and just see if you have chunks. At least this would tell you if you've destroyed it, I would think?

 

[coax]

Thank you both for the responses!

Maybe but how much oil would it take to increase the lever that much?? You said 2qts? I don't think parts falling into the oil caused it to go up that much, I really don't.

As for the knock, it sounds kinda faint for a rod... but maybe? could be valve related? Pop off the valve cover and have a look around? remove some spark plugs and see if water shoots out? Whatever you do don't drive it without at least draining the oil to make sure no water is in i because if the bottom end isn't gone now it'll go for sure with water in the oil.

Yea i agree..its all very strange. I can't think of what would have caused the level to increase that much..and none of my other fluids are low...nor have I done any sort of water crossings or whatnot. The 2 quarts was a guess...seemed that the length on the dipstick between low and high is about 1 quart...and this was way beyond that....but no idea if its linear when there is that much oil.

I'll get the oil drained soon just to be sure and see what falls out.

Maybe take the valve cover off and drop the oil pan and just see if you have chunks. At least this would tell you if you've destroyed it, I would think?

Yea I think I can swing at least pulling the valve cover while its outside in the driveway...landlord may not want me pulling the oil pan but I'll start w/ Valve cover and draining the oil.

 

[Nemo]

Thank you both for the responses!



Yea i agree..its all very strange. I can't think of what would have caused the level to increase that much..and none of my other fluids are low...nor have I done any sort of water crossings or whatnot. The 2 quarts was a guess...seemed that the length on the dipstick between low and high is about 1 quart...and this was way beyond that....but no idea if its linear when there is that much oil.

I'll get the oil drained soon just to be sure and see what falls out.



Yea I think I can swing at least pulling the valve cover while its outside in the driveway...landlord may not want me pulling the oil pan but I'll start w/ Valve cover and draining the oil.

Coax,
I live in Crested Butte and could at the very least lend an ear / hand. Feel free to PM me and I could meet up with you.

 

[coax]

Awesome! Thanks for the offer! Will shoot you a PM.

 

[Corbet]

I'd be pulling the pan and valve cover before starting it again. Pull the plugs and look in with one of those snake camera things? They have gotten cheap.

https://www.amazon.com/Endoscope-Bo...ocphy=9029145&hvtargid=pla-490599480660&psc=1

 

[coax]

I'd be pulling the pan and valve cover before starting it again. Pull the plugs and look in with one of those snake camera things? They have gotten cheap.

https://www.amazon.com/Endoscope-Bo...ocphy=9029145&hvtargid=pla-490599480660&psc=1

Good suggestion! I think will drain oil (& Inspect) and then pull the valve cover followed by the lower pan. If nothing immediately jumps out I think I'll order one of those fancy scopes and an oil pressure tester. Thanks!

 

[scheefdog]

If you end up needing a replacement engine let me know. I have an 80 in Gunnison that has a good engine with 180k miles on it.

 

[coax]

If you end up needing a replacement engine let me know. I have an 80 in Gunnison that has a good engine with 180k miles on it.

Awesome! If it comes to it I'll definitely let you know...I was kind of dreading having to haul something back from the front range if I needed to go down the replacement path. Thanks!!

 

[DaveInDenver]

I'd think if you had that much water in the crankcase to push the level up a quart or two the dipstick would have been chocolate foam.

But that said it sure sounds like a rod knock to me but is it possible for a 1FZ to slip timing? A 22R could jump a tooth on the timing chain and it could sound a little like that if the valve float got bad enough to kiss the piston.

 

[Stuckinthe80s]

I agree that it sounds like a rod knock. That oil level increase really has me baffled. Even if you lost an entire rod, I don't think it would be enough to raise the oil level that much. (nevermind the fact that it would jave probably gone through the oil pan)

 

[jps8460]

Power steering front seal/bearing failure? Steering pump gear failure or front bearing failure can sound like a rod knock. Perhaps it pumped PS fluid into the engine?

 

[ccslider]

Sounds like a rod knock, also sounded low on compression during the crank before it started. Pretty much exactly like the one in my garage with the rod out the oil pan.

I would skip right to draining the oil and pulling the pan to inspect the rod bearings.

Is your crank pulley bolt tight at the 303 ft lbs or whatever it is?

 

[powderpig]

If you have a rod going out, the bearing is going to be in the oil, so when you drain the oil, you may find some bits of metal. take a magnet to it, and see if you have only bearing material, or if you have both fine metal and aluminum(if both, more than likely piston slap). I would not run the engine any more. If you have a compression gauge, you can do a compression test. You may find one reading a bit low, or you may have a few reading low. If you find one real low or no compression, then you may have piston slap where the rings are tore up in the cylinder wall.
I would not pull the pan, as it may be a waste of time. IN order to see the crank, you need to pull both the steel pan and the aluminum pan. Lot of work, if you can pin it down to what cylinder. If you have compression or no compression, you may have some answers with out too much work.