Bender - The Silver 60

[KC Masterpiece]

Well bad news. Went to install the bypass hose and started to fill the transmission with the transfer case fill plug out. Fluid runs freely directly through. That seal aint weeping, its dead.

I wonder if it just went out. The last few days I noticed more noise from the transmission than usual.

So looks like the next phase of this project will be rebuilding the case.

 

[Cruisertrash]

Well bad news. Went to install the bypass hose and started to fill the transmission with the transfer case fill plug out. Fluid runs freely directly through. That seal aint weeping, its dead.

I wonder if it just went out. The last few days I noticed more noise from the transmission than usual.

So looks like the next phase of this project will be rebuilding the case.

If that seal is toast, the sealing surface on the input gear likely is done as well. You could sleeve it, or buy a new gear. Behind the input gear is a spacer that occupies the place that a PTO gear would go, and you can get a new gear from Valley Hybrids (I believe it’s a Terrain Tamer brand) that is longer to take up the space of the old gear and the old spacer. The benefit is you get longer spline engagement.

And if you’re buying one gear for $350-400, I’d also consider just a full regear of the t-case of you want to go 3:1 or 4:1. That costs I think $1200-1300. No reason to regear if you want to keep the transfer case at 2:1, but it’s something to think about.

 

[KC Masterpiece]

If that seal is toast, the sealing surface on the input gear likely is done as well. You could sleeve it, or buy a new gear. Behind the input gear is a spacer that occupies the place that a PTO gear would go, and you can get a new gear from Valley Hybrids (I believe it’s a Terrain Tamer brand) that is longer to take up the space of the old gear and the old spacer. The benefit is you get longer spline engagement.

And if you’re buying one gear for $350-400, I’d also consider just a full regear of the t-case of you want to go 3:1 or 4:1. That costs I think $1200-1300. No reason to regear if you want to keep the transfer case at 2:1, but it’s something to think about.

Yeah it is definitely a big bummer but also an opportunity for me to learn more about the truck. I had not planned on driving in the winter salt so it looks like Bender is just going into hibernation early this season. I will have to research the regear options more. I can see that they have high and low range options, might be an interesting option. The 3:1 gears in the 80 are one of the best mods I have ever done. I am not sure if I can justify building out the 60 for any serious wheeling. The 80 is already locked and loaded for that use case. This vehicle will be a summer DD and will see light camping duty. Good tires, a winch, and some traction mats should get it everywhere it ever needs to go. It looks like all of the reduction options for the 60's involve clearance the case which is a bit of a bummer.

@Cruisertrash Did you recently rebuild yours? I might want to give you a call to talk through the project if you have some time.

As with all repairs I watched through the OTTRAM video this weekend and, assuming I do not need to open the transmission, rebuilding the split case does not seem like it is much more complicated than rebuilding the front axle which was already on the list for the winter. Pretty sure I can tackle this one at home. We have a big garage now, and I have been waiting for an excuse to buy a press.

Now I need to go through the full "while you are in there" list for dropping the trans. So far I have;

MUST DO

1. Rebuild TC, all seals.

SHOULD DO

1. Replace clutch
2. Resurface / replace flywheel
3. Replace rear main
4. Regear?

What else is recommended while the trans is out? Rising Sun 60 owners, chime in please!

 

[SteveH]

Vent the transfer case using 3/8" gas line run up to the firewall. Toyota's lame factory 'vent caps' can clog, causing pressure in the xfer case (and leaks). You can either pry off the spring loaded cap, and attach the fuel line to the stub with a hose clamp, or buy a metric barbed fitting and do it that way. It can be done with xfer case installed, but it's infinitely easier to do when the case is out.

 

[Crash]

My experience with pulling the split case transfer was way more complicated than a front axle rebuild. YMMV but when I pulled the back half of it off and gears and levers fell out I thought I was going to throw up.
I have the ubiquitous 20 ton press from Harbor Freight that I would let go for $100 - you pick up. It did come in handy when rebuilding the case.

 

[RDub]

Grab that press pronto! Great deal!

 

[Cruisertrash]

@Crash has finally found the right victim for the press he’s had for sale for over a year!! I kid, it’s a fine press and worth far more than the asking price.

@KC Masterpiece Steve is right - extend the breather line. Instead of any homebrew solution, just pop off the entire stock breather and replace it with a breather fitting from a 70 Series. Perfect fit on the t-case with a barbed end. My local dealership was able to get this, no problem.

More here, starting with post 194.

The only other “while you’re in there” I can think of is the 2Low mod. As mostly a pavement princess it may not be necessary, but it takes 30 seconds - lop a tab off the shifter bracket with a cutoff wheel. You’ll have true 2Low. The transfer case is on low range and doesn’t send any power to the front.

On top of that you’ll probably want various shims for the output bearing on hand. Mine didn’t spec out to anywhere close to the same preload as it should. Not difficult but a total pain in the ass process. I have a few around somewhere if they’ll help.

There are lots of OEM parts available too. Little bushings and all sorts of stuff, especially for the shifter linkages. Transmission mount. Flywheel bolts. There’s also a very specific- and important, as I found out last week - bolt in the linkage.

The part below that (not pictured) slipped down about 1/4” and left me with a useless shift lever and stuck in low range. That proper bolt would have prevented all the heartache.

That’s a good start for now. I have a spreadsheet with a parts list and we can chat on the phone soon if you want!

 

[rover67]

you will want to have a decent set of shims for the output bearing preload before you start. I haven't found a t case gasket that matches the original factory one so preload will be different simply due to that, but also the new bearings you'll use. Also a way to test output bearing preload with a torque wrench or by some other method. get those things ready to go and you should be OK with not weird hangups during build.

 

[Cruisertrash]

you will want to have a decent set of shims for the output bearing preload before you start. I haven't found a t case gasket that matches the original factory one so preload will be different simply due to that, but also the new bearings you'll use. Also a way to test output bearing preload with a torque wrench or by some other method. get those things ready to go and you should be OK with not weird hangups during build.

100% agree. You'll need a good selection of shims on hand, especially the thinner ones so you can dial in the preload once you're in the ballpark. I think I ordered 10 or 15 of them in various sizes.

 

[KC Masterpiece]

Well Mud is not certain on bypass hose efficacy, but I am giving it a shot.

Filled them both and installed the hose last night. No fluid migration this morning so the seal cant be totally shot. Fingers crossed this setup works. Made sure the breather was clear as well.

Well... it felt clear.



@fyffer did you end up installing yours?

 

[CardinalFJ60]

FWIW, I ran that xfer/tranny hose setup for years.

 

[KC Masterpiece]

FWIW, I ran that xfer/tranny hose setup for years.

Awesome. I hope I have the same experience.

 

[fyffer]

Well Mud is not certain on bypass hose efficacy, but I am giving it a shot.

Filled them both and installed the hose last night. No fluid migration this morning so the seal cant be totally shot. Fingers crossed this setup works. Made sure the breather was clear as well.

Well... it felt clear.



@fyffer did you end up installing yours?

Yes I did, after removing the 46.4 lbs belly plate (could not safely reach and attach with it on). Great Idea to check for migration and so I will. Working on an air intake system at the moment, did not realize it would take such a lot of re arranging and mods.

 

[KC Masterpiece]

Okay transmission update.

Drove to and from work a bit this week. Over about 240 miles 2 quarts migrated to the transfer case. Not great. Topped it of which means the t case is now overfilled.

Was worth a shot but for the long term. I think it's rebuild time to replace that seal.

 

[KC Masterpiece]

Well this morning I decided to dump the gear oil that initially looked pretty clean to me. Under a flashlight though..... a bit of a gold tint to it.

PO told me the 5 speed was newish but did not have the paperwork to support it. Are we looking at normal break in syncro wear here? Or should I plan on expanding the rebuild? T case looks within my skillet, but a transmission rebuild might be beyond my abilities.

Shifts and grabs gears fine. Never ant grinding. Just got a bit noisier as the fluid drained back to the tcase.

What may look like big brass flakes is just junk from a dirty bucket. But there is definitely some in there now that it has settled. Could this just be the result of some glp5 oil going in there eating brass?

 

[SteveH]

Any idea how long the oil has been in the transmission? Nevertheless, I would refill the trans with oil and drive it. I don't think GL5 is so hard on brass that it create bits like that - I think what you're seeing is normal wear particles. The 5 speed in my 4Runner usually had some tiny glittery flakes when changed, but operated just fine with 279K miles on it. I would not consider rebuilding a manual transmission until it clearly gives obvious signs of death.

 

[KC Masterpiece]

Any idea how long the oil has been in the transmission? Nevertheless, I would refill the trans with oil and drive it. I don't think GL5 is so hard on brass that it create bits like that - I think what you're seeing is normal wear particles. The 5 speed in my 4Runner usually had some tiny glittery flakes when changed, but operated just fine with 279K miles on it. I would not consider rebuilding a manual transmission until it clearly gives obvious signs of death.

No idea on how long it was in there. I was thinking that's probably it, but I also now suspect it ran with low fluid for a while.

Refilled and drove today and it shifted fine.

Admittedly first MT I have changed oil on. The bit o glitter scared me. Only delt with ATF before.

 

[KC Masterpiece]

Well it seems like everything will be okay, but not ideal, with the bypass hose. Tcase seeps a bit likely due to being overfilled. Bonus I can now see the fluid level without pulling the fill plugs. The whole thing would need new seals, so I am thinking to plan on dropping it as a project for next winter. Gives me plenty of time to do research and source parts and tools. And to consider reduction gears. The 3:1 sumo gears in the 80 were a game changer.

Some more goodies showed up today. I went with the flat white knuckle sliders. The 80 slee steps sold me on this design. So functional for accessing the roof rack.



Pretty pleased with quality and looking forward to installing.

For those of you who have used fluid film is it worth applying between the slider plates and frame? I have a kit of 4 cans and plan to use it to coat the interior of the frame rails, door sills, rockers, and any other body seams where rust might start up again. The exterior coating is so good there is no reason to get it all greasy.

 

[KC Masterpiece]

Thinking about tire choices in the future.

I want to go back to a 15" wheel to get more meat. That also means the correct choice is pizza cutters.

I see the Kenda Kleaver MT2 is available in a 33x9.5x15. That might be the way to go. Anyone have experience with that tire? Currently running Toyo MTs on 17" wheels.

 

[HDavis]

Thinking about tire choices in the future.

I want to go back to a 15" wheel to get more meat. That also means the correct choice is pizza cutters.

I see the Kenda Kleaver MT2 is available in a 33x9.5x15. That might be the way to go. Anyone have experience with that tire? Currently running Toyo MTs on 17" wheels.

@Cruisertrash put the Kendas on his 60. I have the Klever RT pizza cutters on our 200 and recommended them to him based on my experience.