1973 FJ40 build

gr8fulabe

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doesn't look good. sprayed PB Blaster in there 5 times in the last 24 hours. used a crow bar, BFH screwdriver, etc. and nothing. put the propane heater on it for an hour to make sure it was nicely thawed out, and nothing. all cylinders look pretty good, but #1 has a little orange sludge. Mike says it was running fine when it was taken out of the fj60.

any other ideas? I am stuck. and bummed.

Chris. thanks for that crank, but there was no place to put it.....


thanks everyone

Instead of PB Blaster, try using Mark Whatley's home made Anti-seaze formula. That stuff rocks & I have successfully used it on an F engine that was seized. Someone here on the board should have the receipe. It is more or less equal parts of 4 things (ATF, & three otheres, but I don't recall what). It might help...
 

Uncle Ben

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Instead of PB Blaster, try using Mark Whatley's home made Anti-seaze formula. That stuff rocks & I have successfully used it on an F engine that was seized. Someone here on the board should have the receipe. It is more or less equal parts of 4 things (ATF, & three otheres, but I don't recall what). It might help...


If it has "sludge" that would be the same category as liquid which is not compressible and forcing it to move could end up creating a bigger problem! Pulling the head is the ONLY way to know whats going on and could end up saving quite a bit of $ in the long run!
 

corsair23

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Timm,

If it helps I've got some FJ40 manuals at home - I think I've got a 2F engine manual and other stuff. I'm not using them at the moment so you're more than welcome to borrow what you need. I can look tonight and let you know exactly what I have if you'd like :thumb:

Sorry to hear about the theft - Bastids! :mad:
 

timmbuck2

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If it has "sludge" that would be the same category as liquid which is not compressible and forcing it to move could end up creating a bigger problem! Pulling the head is the ONLY way to know whats going on and could end up saving quite a bit of $ in the long run!

so running the starter motor would be a bad idea???
 

Rzeppa

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so running the starter motor would be a bad idea???
NO! Not a bad idea. I am quite sure (Kevin please correct me if I am misunderstanding your post) that what Kevin is referring to is hydrolock, where water/liquid gets into the combustion chambers when a rig gets dunked for example. This would not apply in this case since you've already removed the spark plugs. With the plugs out, there's no way to get hydrolocked.

To reply to a separate reply, Mark Whatley's magic formula includes ATF, kerosene, mineral spirits and diesel fuel IIRC. Or at least 3 of those 4, and I do remember it has 4 ingredients.
 

gr8fulabe

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Leave the plugs out!

That actually goes to my next question...

Only the top part of the cylinder builds compression, right? The reason I ask is from above, when you mentioned the, "orange sludge" not being compressible.

If the plug was out, wouldn't turning the motor over just push it out through the plug hole? So, would the risk be to the bottom half of the motor, or does it just not push enough out to elminate risk to the piston/rings, etc...?

Just curious, & thanks in advance for the info!

Best,
Abe
 

timmbuck2

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plugs are out, ATF was added at lunch. Jeff and I will be testing the starter tomorrow. :)
 

Rezarf

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Sweet! I have a compression tester if it would be of any help, Stacy and I are hitting up that RV show tomorrow and will be at the convention center downtown if you'd like it.

might let you "see" whats going on in there compression wise.
 

Rzeppa

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That actually goes to my next question...

Only the top part of the cylinder builds compression, right? The reason I ask is from above, when you mentioned the, "orange sludge" not being compressible.

If the plug was out, wouldn't turning the motor over just push it out through the plug hole? So, would the risk be to the bottom half of the motor, or does it just not push enough out to elminate risk to the piston/rings, etc...?

Just curious, & thanks in advance for the info!

Best,
Abe
"Orange Sludge" refers to the buildup of oxidation that can occur between the cylinder walls and the piston rings on engines that have been sitting around a while. In particular, the rings can get mated to the walls with oxidation. It doesn't take much for them to become pretty stuck in my experience, yet it doesn't take much to get them unstuck, and no harm is really done after the engine is run as long as there is no significant pitting on the cylinder walls.

After my conversation with Timm today, I learned that all of this is being done while the motor is still hanging from chains on a cherry picker: hardly good for leverage. You can't get a good perch from tweaking the flywheel teeth with any kind of levering device.

Since all the ancillaries (dist, fuel pump, manifolds, etc.) are still on the engine, it isn't practical to lay the engine down, especially on it's side for better leverage. Then it struck me that with the starter still bolted on, it would get excellent leverage to turn the crank. It's bolted to the bellhousing, which is bolted to the engine. On top of that, a 60 starter is of the gear reduction vintage, further adding to the possibility that it could budge the crank.

Simply jump the starter solenoid activation contact with the big one that runs the starter, then hook up jumpers from a good battery. The worst that could happen is that something bad might happen (probably to the starter itself) on an engine that already had issues, no?

So anyway, to answer gr8fulabe's question, no as long as the plugs are out, there is no risk from hydrolock. Any fluid in the combustion chambers has a pathway out. If the motor's seized from some other reason, it really doesn't matter, it will need to be torn into anyway. BTW, I have a few spare cranks and cams laying around if anyone needs them :-)
 

timmbuck2

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If anyone wants to see if anything explodes, Jeff and Ricardo are coming over around 10. Too early for beers, but I will work on breakfast burritos or pizza for lunch...

:)

T
 

timmbuck2

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SHE LIVES!!!!!!!!!!!!

I guess I was just being too gentle. :) After Ricardo and I put the 2f on the floor motor stand (Thanks Turtle60!!!) we started looking for the starter while waiting for Zepp. Guess what. NO starter. (Anyone have a 2f starter???!) That brought my morning down a little. Then Zepp showed up and with some pry bar action we were able to spin the flywheel. YES! Off came the clutch, flywheel and bellhousing, quick rear main seal change, and put the new bellhousing back on. Now waiting to get a clutch kit, pick up the 4 speed from Nakari (THANKS! I will call and come by after naptime) and just find a tcase and I can start thinking of dropping this beast into the 40. HUGE thanks to Jeff Zepp and Ricardo for their help. After cursing humanity after mt tcase and tranny were stolen, I have been overwhelmed by the kindness of the Rising Sun crew....offers for engines, trannys. tcases, help, etc. have flooded my email and phone. Thanks to all! I can't wait to help you out on your next project.

I am sure Ricardo will post pics up, he was the photographer today. :)

Thanks again everyone!

Timm
 

Rzeppa

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I am sure Ricardo will post pics up, he was the photographer today. :)

I'll look forward to the pix, and maybe any video Ricardo may have shot ;-)

Yes, there was certainly some rust in the cylinders, but nothing too serious. Once the first 20-30° of rotation was accomplished, it started turning normally. Getting that first budge was key.

I've worked on 60s here and there over the years, and it never ceases to amaze me the miles of vacuum spaghetti those rigs have. I definitely would want a factory emissions manual to figure out what's safe to plug off and what is still needed. In particular, I would want to make sure the charcoal canister functions more or less properly.

I advised Timm to leave all the ancillaries on the front to help counterbalance the weight of the tranny and t-case when the assembly is hoisted in. I've never paid attention to this, but does anyone here know if the stock *60 A/C compressor is useful for OBA?

Speaking of starters, I have about three dead non-gear reduction starters laying around, if anyone wants one to rebuild or for a core, free to club members. They might also be useful to hold tarps down ;-)
 

Shark Bait

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I've never paid attention to this, but does anyone here know if the stock *60 A/C compressor is useful for OBA?

Yes. In my 55 I used the FJ60 front motor mount that was also the bracket for the stock A/C compressor. We also used the alternator bracket(s) from the 60. IIRC, we needed the lower radiator hose and connector pipe from the 60 as well, to clear the belts. Oh, we also needed the 3-groove pulley from the 2F from the 60, but that may already be on Timm's motor. You'll need to put an oiler on the intake for the compressor, but it worked great!
 
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Ige has some starters for sale on the Ih8mud site. I have a 38mm tcase from an '87 fj60 that I've been trying to get $200 for for awhile. Trying to save up for a couple new parts and pay for those longfields I just put in.
 

RicardoJM

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Timm, I'm happy to know the engine is alive.

I've posted up some pictures and video's from this afternoon. Hope you enjoy them.

I really learned quite a bit from the experience and look forward to doing some more stuff.

Jeff your knowledge and experience really saved the day. All too often simple things are difficult to comprehend until you see them practiced by an experienced person and then they become clear and obvious. Thanks for letting me learn.:thumb:
 

timmbuck2

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and some lock tite for the flywheel? :)


So, think I was a *little* happy when the flywheel came off?
 

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timmbuck2

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