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The Vinyl Thread

DaveInDenver

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I believe the Yamaha is made in China but the company should know a little about making them. Who knows, though, it's new to the market. The Pro-Ject will be made in the Czech Republic and they have a track record so you know what you're getting (I like mine just fine). Seems like a tough one but maybe the local shop can order one or will let you demo the Yamaha? If it seems to spin true and flat, on speed and sounds good then it might be just fine.
 

Hulk

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Usually anything from Yamaha is pretty decent so I don't think this is a poor choice. It certainly looks super cool. The Amazon ratings for the same Yamaha turntable are mostly very positive.

If it's really $499, keep in mind that there are excellent choices at that price point. In fact, that's actually $50 more than the Pro-Ject Debut Carbon DC Turntable with Ortofon 2M Red Cartridge which is a value that is hard to beat.
 

DaveInDenver

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Usually anything from Yamaha is pretty decent so I don't think this is a poor choice. It certainly looks super cool. The Amazon ratings for the same Yamaha turntable are mostly very positive.

If it's really $499, keep in mind that there are excellent choices at that price point. In fact, that's actually $50 more than the Pro-Ject Debut Carbon DC Turntable with Ortofon 2M Red Cartridge which is a value that is hard to beat.
It appears the Yamaha comes with an Audio Technica AT-3600L, which is a pretty common OEM entry cartridge. The Ortofon 2M Red on a carbon arm is a decent jump up scale.

It's not so much that an entry level TT comes with a cartridge appropriate for its price point but what you're paying for. In fact spec'ing a cartridge that just gets the job done makes sense if you consider it'll be the first thing upgraded.

OTOH trying to find the right one that matches your arm and system isn't simple so if the manufacturer does the homework they should know what works reasonably well. And the AT-3600L seems to play well beyond its expectations, so says the Interwebz anyway.
 

Crash

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The Pro-ject Debut Carbon Evolution is the most recent $499 ‘table offering from that company. Looks really good for the money. Supporting local vendors is a good thing.
 

Hulk

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DaveInDenver

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I think you're hearing the TT rumble. Is it only there with the platter spinning during the lead-in by chance? If you lift the arm or turn off the motor I'm betting it goes away.

If so those isolation feet probably aren't going to solve your problem since that would mean it's probably not room noise but inherent to the turntable, e.g. coming from the bearing, sympathetic from the plinth or arm or cart or platter with motor noise, etc. Could try a different mat or a different platter (for example the acrylic one Pro-Ject offers, if yours doesn't have it) or you might need a new belt or pulley wheels. Or a heavier plinth or clamp or the bearing needs oil or be replaced.

The one sure solution to rumble is to only play CDs. :)

FWIW my TT has some rumble and an experiment setting it in box of sand didn't make it go away so I figured, meh, it is what it is. It would probably drive Steve crazy but for me good enough is good enough. I never had the ears to tell and the tinnitus I have has gotten to be a really annoying hissing screech now, a little rumble just rounds out the sound.

Also when you say "hum" that to my EE head implies electrical interference. So are you positive it's an acoustical sound and not electrical perhaps corrosion on connectors or a bad cable? Low frequency hum can come from mains connections, a power adapter starting to fail, crossing cables (think like a ham, sources of RF). The signal from the cartridge to the pre-amp is extremely small so it doesn't take much. Having a WiFi access point near by or a cheap 120V-5V USB adapter (they are notorious for being EMI noise sources).
 
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Crash

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Per usual, I can't add anything that DID didn't cover! I can ask, however, a question. Went back through the entire thread and didn't see any mention of what turntable you have, Hulk. The IsoAcoutics products work really well at what they do but are pretty pricey starting at $45 each for the lightest Orea. Could be time for a new 'table instead?
 

CardinalFJ60

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Speaking of Turntables. I've commited myself to refurbishing my old Collins 200s.

I cannot for the the life of me find replacements for these rubber suspension thingies. Any assistance or ideas would be awesome. I've searched and searched.


IMG_3525.jpg
IMG_3526.jpg
IMG_3527.jpg
IMG_3528.jpg
.
 

60wag

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Can you make something like this work?

 

Hulk

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Pro-Ject Debut Carbon with Ortofon 2M red. Swapped the original platter for the Pro-Ject "Acryl it" platter. Records clamped with Pro-Ject heavy weight record puck.

IMG_0050.jpeg
 

Hulk

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I think you're hearing the TT rumble. Is it only there with the platter spinning during the lead-in by chance? If you lift the arm or turn off the motor I'm betting it goes away.

If so those isolation feet probably aren't going to solve your problem since that would mean it's probably not room noise but inherent to the turntable, e.g. coming from the bearing, sympathetic from the plinth or arm or cart or platter with motor noise, etc. Could try a different mat or a different platter (for example the acrylic one Pro-Ject offers, if yours doesn't have it) or you might need a new belt or pulley wheels. Or a heavier plinth or clamp or the bearing needs oil or be replaced.

The one sure solution to rumble is to only play CDs. :)

FWIW my TT has some rumble and an experiment setting it in box of sand didn't make it go away so I figured, meh, it is what it is. It would probably drive Steve crazy but for me good enough is good enough. I never had the ears to tell and the tinnitus I have has gotten to be a really annoying hissing screech now, a little rumble just rounds out the sound.

Also when you say "hum" that to my EE head implies electrical interference. So are you positive it's an acoustical sound and not electrical perhaps corrosion on connectors or a bad cable? Low frequency hum can come from mains connections, a power adapter starting to fail, crossing cables (think like a ham, sources of RF). The signal from the cartridge to the pre-amp is extremely small so it doesn't take much. Having a WiFi access point near by or a cheap 120V-5V USB adapter (they are notorious for being EMI noise sources).
I'll do a little testing -- it may be that the noise is inherent to the turntable. Thanks for describing this, Dave.
 

CardinalFJ60

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Can you make something like this work?

Possibly. the suspension membrane is has a good amount of give in it. I found this site - close...but no cigar. https://novibration.com/products/

these are the closest I've found...but not quite right. https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-4-Barr...113077?hash=item4d91885635:g:P24AAOSw0q1cXfoK

It's OK...if I need to get my Vinyl on...I got these...

turntables.JPG
 

Hulk

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Just found there is a new upgrade to my turntable: an aluminum sub-platter. Not even sure it's on U.S. soil yet.
 

Crash

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Hulk, I think it’s time to pull the platter off and check your spindle bearing. As was discussed just recently, extra weight and or pushing down on the platter can scar the bearing which would cause poor performance including noise. Not familiar with the Pro-Ject bearing arrangement but most spindle bearings are steel balls. Proceed cautiously!
 

60wag

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Isn't is just like a Cruise spindle bearing? Tapered roller bearings packed in black sticky grease? :) Repack the birf while your in there.
 

Crash

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Ahh, not exactly, Bruce, but close. 😉 Just a single ball between a stationary disc and the rotating, usually steel, spindle with brass bushings holding the spindle true. Cleaning, examining for wear on the ball, relubing and putting it all back together might just take care of the hollow rumble Hulk reported. If wear is found on the ball, it can be sourced fairly easily. I replaced my old VPI Aries ball with a ceramic ball from a bicycle shop. The ceramic wore much less rapidly than the steel and was formed to a tighter spec as well.
 

DaveInDenver

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Pro-Ject just sets the spindle in a bronze bushing. Actually, I do personally use a drop of EP (moly-fortified) chassis grease on the very end and a light coat of the oil I use for our sewing machine - good old 3-in-1.

ETA: forgot to mention why 3-in-1. It's detergent-free 20 weight and designed for high speed electric motor bushings, so it doesn't gum up. What works in your car engine does not work in this application.

My intention with the grease is just to give the spindle a bit of extra support. It doesn't have to be rocket surgery here but if you ask what kind of lube to use here in the audio forums you might as well open a can of Jeep-vs-Toyota hurt.

This is I've always assumed the source of the rumble Matt and it's implicit with the relative cheapness of Pro-Jects. It's a functional system but nothing stellar for sure.

I have the acrylic platter, too, and it might actually make it worse. Even though I had no particular problem I was solving. Just didn't like the idea of the original steel. Of course steel is said to be technically OK with our pedestrian MM carts but I still don't like the idea of anything ferrous. So adding back in mass with aluminum might help, I dunno.

IMG_1770_mid.jpg

IMG_1768_mid.jpg
IMG_1769_mid.jpg
 
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Hulk

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@DaveInDenver, I think you're right that the hollow resonance is inherent to the turntable. Here's a video of what I'm hearing.

 
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