Chinamans is no longer Chinamans.

[gr8fulabe]

https://www.wilderness.org/sites/default/files/media/file/Placenamesguide.pdf

Interesting read, if anyone is interested.

 

[nuclearlemon]

OK, so that's what things were like back then. Now imagine you own an FJ40 and everyone else owns a Jeep, a Bronco, or a Scout — but especially Jeeps. They were everywhere, especially the CJ5. You're sick and tired of hearing "rice burner." The joke stopped being funny after the 100th time you heard it, if it was ever funny at all. People kind of spit it at you, and not always in a friendly way. You're sick of being the only dude with a Toyota in a group of Jeeps. Eventually, guys with FJ40s kind of find each other and decide to form their own club.

Literally the origins of rising sun 4x4 club. it was the toyota owners of mile hi jeep club that split off to form rising sun

 

[Jcbmx]

Wow thank you for sharing the history of the rising sun! I read a thing saying it was also the nickname for Toyota's reverse engineered Jeep haha.

I will say this, at least they're renaming the trail and sticking with a tribute to the Chinese. At least they're not reappropriating it like "Scott Carpenter trail" or something like that...seriously who was that guy and why's his name on everything (theoretical question)

 

[nuclearlemon]

https://www.wilderness.org/sites/default/files/media/file/Placenamesguide.pdf

Interesting read, if anyone is interested.

i will check it out with skepticism...the wilderness society is far from non-biased.

 

[Hulk]

https://www.wilderness.org/sites/default/files/media/file/Placenamesguide.pdf

Interesting read, if anyone is interested.

30 pages. I printed it and will read it on the shitter.

 

[Inukshuk]

... Privately pointing out support for offensive language, simply leaves the original statement in place, with no mention from others in the club that it isn’t approved of. That means that anyone searching the club out can find it, and then decide we aren’t the place for them, instead of giving it a chance. ...

....

And to that end, I’ll admit that my first post was rushed (trying to shoot out of work at the time) not very tactful, and certainly now phrased the way I was thinking in my head. So Andy, I would like to offer my apologies for a poorly worded response. I didn’t mean to sound accusatory, or call you out directly, or anything like that. So I’m sorry if my post gave you any stress, as that wasn’t my intent. Club leadership has an oversized megaphone, and an outward visibility that the rest of us don’t. And as such, needs to be twice as thoughtful all the time. Not just you, but anyone that has been in the leadership spot. I hope you’ll forgive me, and not see the post as an attack.

Best
Abe

Abe, this is a great example. I think most members do exactly the same. When we consider our words, either spontaneously or someone alerting us, we publicly take accountability. I agree that if the original statement is not addressed in the same public venue then the original statement stands. I cannot think of one instance where I, you, or another member did not come back and post exactly like you just did.

Love fest!

 

[rushthezeppelin]

Like I said, times change & we need to change with them.

Just because times change does not mean you should change with them. Times changed when the Weimar republic collapsed, that certainly did not mean the change that came was good as I'm sure everyone would agree about the aftermath of that.

On a similar vein I love this longer Chesterton quote -
"There exists in such a case a certain institution or law; let us say, for the sake of simplicity, a fence or gate erected across a road. The more modern type of reformer goes gaily up to it and says, “I don’t see the use of this; let us clear it away.” To which the more intelligent type of reformer will do well to answer: “If you don’t see the use of it, I certainly won’t let you clear it away. Go away and think. Then, when you can come back and tell me that you do see the use of it, I may allow you to destroy it.”

 

[Hulk]

@Hulk absolutely and I know that history. There are many angles to it and a few other specific ways it could be deemed offensive. That said, just because something can be offensive doesn't mean it needs to be changed.

To be clear, I am NOT suggesting we change the name of our club. We have 42 years of history using our club name and I have been a member for 22 of 'em. We are a private club not public lands. If there is a lady in California who is upset over our name, I will feast on her tears of frustration.

 

[Inukshuk]

https://www.wilderness.org/sites/default/files/media/file/Placenamesguide.pdf

Interesting read, if anyone is interested.

I will read "A Guide to Changing Racist and Offensive Place Names in the United States" while seated next to my beautiful Tradescantia zebrina plant.

 

[gr8fulabe]

i will check it out with skepticism...the wilderness society is far from non-biased.

Fair point! It definitely leans to one side. I wasn’t thinking so much about any proselytizing they do, so much as the first chunk, that discusses the why’s, target names, and what things to consider when choosing a new name, and then they go into some of the actual process -around it. But yes, take it with a grain of salt for sure. They’ve also got some numbers in there surrounding different troublesome names & the number of locations that share them.

 

[gr8fulabe]

Just because times change does not mean you should change with them. Times changed when the Weimar republic collapsed, that certainly did not mean the change that came was good as I'm sure everyone would agree about the aftermath of that.

On a similar vein I love this longer Chesterton quote -
"There exists in such a case a certain institution or law; let us say, for the sake of simplicity, a fence or gate erected across a road. The more modern type of reformer goes gaily up to it and says, “I don’t see the use of this; let us clear it away.” To which the more intelligent type of reformer will do well to answer: “If you don’t see the use of it, I certainly won’t let you clear it away. Go away and think. Then, when you can come back and tell me that you do see the use of it, I may allow you to destroy it.”

The arc of history is long, but it bends toward Justice. The vast majority of the world, lined up on the opposite side of the group you mention. They changed as times dictated, and put an end to the third reich. But yeah, if I was going to amend my statement to respond to your point, it would be, “times change & we need to change with them. But choose wisely.”

 

[DouglasVB]

Hey @Hulk would it maybe be a good idea to move this discussion to the members only portion of the forum?

 

[rushthezeppelin]

The arc of history is long, but it bends toward Justice. The vast majority of the world, lined up on the opposite side of the group you mention. They changed as times dictated, and put an end to the third reich. But yeah, if I was going to amend my statement to respond to your point, it would be, “times change & we need to change with them. But choose wisely.”

Indeed the choose wisely part is very important whether changing with the times or holding fast to traditions. That doesn't always happen though and I would say more that history wanes back and forth from injustice to justice, and perhaps, on the whole, the needle is slightly more towards the side of justice but only by the grace of God.

 

[White Stripe]

Meanwhile in another gulch...

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cXk3ju4WDC4

 

[Notyourmomslx450]

Ironic that you don’t heed your own advice.

I understand the point you are trying to make, but in this case respectfully, I disagree. Privately pointing out support for offensive language, simply leaves the original statement in place, with no mention from others in the club that it isn’t approved of. That means that anyone searching the club out can find it, and then decide we aren’t the place for them, instead of giving it a chance.

Like I said, times change & we need to change with them. Surely nobody here would argue to go back to segregation. It was perfectly acceptable back in the day & is a long & storied part of our past, so it must be okay, right? No, everyone here would agree that it was ultimately offensive & an archaic piece of history that deserves to be left behind.

I’d like to think that everyone here recognizes the difference between simple offensive language, and racial slurs & such also. “The aristocrats” is an offensive joke, but relies on no stereotypes or slurs to get there. And don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying I’ve been perfect my whole life. But I do try to better better tomorrow, than I am today. And to that end, I’ll admit that my first post was rushed (trying to shoot out of work at the time) not very tactful, and certainly now phrased the way I was thinking in my head. So Andy, I would like to offer my apologies for a poorly worded response. I didn’t mean to sound accusatory, or call you out directly, or anything like that. So I’m sorry if my post gave you any stress, as that wasn’t my intent. Club leadership has an oversized megaphone, and an outward visibility that the rest of us don’t. And as such, needs to be twice as thoughtful all the time. Not just you, but anyone that has been in the leadership spot. I hope you’ll forgive me, and not see the post as an attack.
Best
Abe

No worries. We’re all adults.
Thanks Abe

 

[Corbet]

Those full size Dakar trucks are total beasts. That would be the class to race IMO

 

[p nut]

The name itself seems totally benign. I didn’t even know it was a derogatory term until my teen years.

It seems some folks from the Chinese and Asian community are indifferent and have no preference either way. Like one of the posters here.

Let me say from my perspective. With the background being the son of immigrants. Growing up in the south in my youth. Called and ridiculed with various names, including chinaman and some much worse. The term doesn’t exactly bring back fond memories. The heated school bus verbal abuse sessions. Schoolyard fights. I’m not even Chinese but…that doesn’t matter to a lot of folks.
It wasn’t easy growing up in that environment. Maybe some of you have experienced that in your own way.

This isn’t a sob story. Just a perspective. Not everyone has fond memories of relating that term with quality time spent with family and friends.

I don’t take offense to the name itself. Somebody once said a fool takes offense where none is intended. A bigger fool takes offense when it is.
Whether that’s the case here or not, I’ll give the benefit of doubt.

But progress is good, too. I’m glad we don’t have a segregated wheeling club. Social class doesn’t matter. Gender is irrelevant. Marriage status. Religion.
The other poster said succumbing to this progress makes everything homogenized. I tend to disagree.
In business class I took a couple decades ago, a professor said the hardest thing we’ll ever do is to be able to view the world from the other person’s perspective.
Being able to discuss and view things like this from many people’s point of view makes us understand each other better and unite us. And if change is warranted, do it and move forward.

Rant over 🙂

 

[rushthezeppelin]

The name itself seems totally benign. I didn’t even know it was a derogatory term until my teen years.

It seems some folks from the Chinese and Asian community are indifferent and have no preference either way. Like one of the posters here.

Let me say from my perspective. With the background being the son of immigrants. Growing up in the south in my youth. Called and ridiculed with various names, including chinaman and some much worse. The term doesn’t exactly bring back fond memories. The heated school bus verbal abuse sessions. Schoolyard fights. I’m not even Chinese but…that doesn’t matter to a lot of folks.
It wasn’t easy growing up in that environment. Maybe some of you have experienced that in your own way.

This isn’t a sob story. Just a perspective. Not everyone has fond memories of relating that term with quality time spent with family and friends.

I don’t take offense to the name itself. Somebody once said a fool takes offense where none is intended. A bigger fool takes offense when it is.
Whether that’s the case here or not, I’ll give the benefit of doubt.

But progress is good, too. I’m glad we don’t have a segregated wheeling club. Social class doesn’t matter. Gender is irrelevant. Marriage status. Religion.
The other poster said succumbing to this progress makes everything homogenized. I tend to disagree.
In business class I took a couple decades ago, a professor said the hardest thing we’ll ever do is to be able to view the world from the other person’s perspective.
Being able to discuss and view things like this from many people’s point of view makes us understand each other better and unite us. And if change is warranted, do it and move forward.

Rant over 🙂

While this comparison of course isn't perfect I was made fun of for being a nerd and later a skateboarder. That doesn't make those terms derogatory inherently.

 

[KC Masterpiece]

If you all think this is a controversial topic come to one of our school board meetings. that is where the real fun is at.

 

[rushthezeppelin]

If you all think this is a controversial topic come to one of our school board meetings. that is where the real fun is at.

Yeah I'd rather put my nuts into a vice than go to a school board meeting. This is why one of my specific criteria while dating is that I want my kids homeschooled. Thankfully most trad catholic women are already on board with that.