Lets Talk Water Valve shut offs from Remote Vacations

[Romer]

Have you ever been on a trip and checking the weather because you are concerned about an unexpected Freeze damaging your Sprinkler system? I had to come home from the Maze early a few years ago because the weather was going to turn unexpectedly.

Over the next few years I have some vacation plans that could be impacted by an unexpected cold front, but I will be too far away to do anything about it. My current plan is to have one of my son-in laws come over and take care of it.

For an unexpected freeze, I turn off the water in the house and run the sprinkler for a minute to the station at the lowest elevation. That clears out the above ground pipes and has worked well for me.

Two years ago I insulated the outside valve and wrapped the exposed copper with powered heat strip and insulation. Maybe I will do that again.

I found this device when doing a search

https://www.amazon.com/EcoNet-Contr...+valve&qid=1788094431&sprefix=,aps,257&sr=8-7

It has a wifi model and another model with Z-wave that requires a home hub. It seems like it would work on the inside house valve for the sprinkler and then I could run the sprinkller remotelly to drain the above ground pipes

I know a deep freeze could damage sprinkler heads. But, I am more concerned about the above ground valve and copper as an issue there would cause water to run indefentily.

Instead of just focusing on the sprinkler, some have installed a smart valve to the entire water system also using leak detectors to shut off the water in addition to having remote access. If nothing else, this has me thinking I should shut the main water off when leaving in the winter for an extended trip. Not really an option for early fall when you may need to run the sprinkler.

https://www.amazon.com/Moen-900-006...=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9zZWFyY2hfdGhlbWF0aWM&th=1

Obviously, the whole house valve provides much more capability and safety at an extra cost. Install is harder one the main line and if it fails closed, then that creates additional problems. I read some reviews that it sometimes detects leaks that are not there and shuts off the water when it shouldn't.

Anyone install either one of these? Thoughts?

I could use the heat strip/insulation method and my son-in-laws if its going to get real cold, but having more control is always a good thing . . . . . Right?

 

[Corbet]

I’m no help with irrigation. But I’ve gotten in the habit of shutting off water to the whole house when we leave town. I can just kill the cistern pump from a standard light switch in my mechanical room.

 

[RDub]

Good thoughts all around. We had a sprinkler supply line burst from root impingement when we were away a couple summers ago. The line to the sprinkler valves from the main line. In our area of Boulder the water pressure coming into the house is well over 100psig and the broken line spewed over 60,000 gallons of water before a neighbor noticed and turned it off, about 24 hours. Can’t imagine the damage if the main into the house did that.

 

[SteveH]

You can also buy inexpensive leak detectors in a 3 pack that will notify your cell phone if there's a leak. Might be a nice backup alert in case something goes way wrong with your other water-blocking device.

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www.amazon.com

 

[Romer]

This seems to be a good article on the whole house valve https://www.thisoldhouse.com/smart-homes/future-house-smart-water-valve

Sometimes you can't just turn the water off when you leave. For example, If I turned the water off in late May the lawn would have been dead when I returned the end of June from Japan. During Winter months turning off the water seems like an easy fix

 

[AdamKFarmer]

You can also buy inexpensive leak detectors in a 3 pack that will notify your cell phone if there's a leak. Might be a nice backup alert in case something goes way wrong with your other water-blocking device.

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www.amazon.com

Govee was the brand I went with

 

[allen.wrench]

Are you interested in hearing about a smart wifi connected sprinkler controller?

Allen

 

[Romer]

Are you interested in hearing about a smart wifi connected sprinkler controller?

Allen

sure. I am, already planning that. It doesnt solve the issue of water at the above copper pipes and valve though and that is what I am looking at. The more I think about it the more I am leaning towards the main line valve I can turn on and off and that can determine leaks while gone. Haven't fully decided. I got a lot of time before I will need this

 

[Romer]

I was reviewing the major whole house in line valve systems, Moen-Flo, Smartwater and Phyn mentioned in those articles. They all require cutting pipe to install, so if they don't work well, you have some work to remove them.

My main concern is will it detect and mis characterize as a leak a humidifier on, long shower or other non learned event and shut off the water. Also, lots of comments about dropped wifi on some of them. One guy had the water shut off while in the shower, the system sends and alert and gives you a couple of minutes to stop it, but who has their phone in the shower.

My system has an in-line two stage water filter I installed that just supports the house. Essentially after the main shutoff, the line t's. One line goes to the sprinkler system (Unfiltered) and the other line goes to the water filter input mounted on the wall so a short run.

I can shut off the input to the water filters without impacting the sprinkler line. This essentially shuts off the water inside the house. I hadn't thought about that until now.

So if I can shut off the sprinkler valve remotely after shutting the water off to the filters, I only have a few feet of copper left that could develop a leak while I am on vacation. Since I am on a community well with electronic sensors on all the houses, I get overnight reports of water usage by the hour on their web page. blah blah blah

What that means is when I go on vacation during times I want the sprinkler running;

1. Turn off the water to the filters (Inside of the house)
2. Monitor the weather and if a freeze is coming, shut off the valve to the sprinkler remotely
3. Check the water web site for my house and if there is a leak, call a son-in-law OR place a sensor under the water filters/main valve

If there is a leak, it will be in the unfnished part of the basement and there is a drain a few feet away. Still could damage some of the basement carpet in the next room

So think I will try the bulldog valve that bolts on to the existing valve rather than the pipe with no cutting. Easy install, easy removal

Here is a review, not planning on doing the leak sensors at this time. Maybe a sensor below the water filters/Main valve would be a good idea


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrgzdCplfU0


write-ups say the Z-wave setup works better than just wifi. I will need to do some research on Z-wave

 

[Romer]

Wifi version of the same valve

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLD7_9CEtk8

 

[Inukshuk]

Monitoring and shutoff are wise ideas.

In 2016 I was on my way to Expo Flagstaff and turned my phone on. Got message from neighbor watching my dogs that the hot water heater flooded my kitchen. As part of the kitchen remodel (insurance paid, not bad) I added the red main shutoff where cold water supply enters the living space. All interior water passes here. I shut it off whenever I leave a few days.
This would not help with my sprinklers . They are an old installation connected in the front yard between the house main shutoff and tap.
Insurance was going to drop me. Installation of the flood detector auto valve kept me insured. Tech is a lot better now than 2016 and I agree one of your wifi enabled tools is better.

 

[Romer]

Monitoring and shutoff are wise ideas.

In 2016 I was on my way to Expo Flagstaff and turned my phone on. Got message from neighbor watching my dogs that the hot water heater flooded my kitchen. As part of the kitchen remodel (insurance paid, not bad) I added the red main shutoff where cold water supply enters the living space. All interior water passes here. I shut it off whenever I leave a few days.
This would not help with my sprinklers . They are an old installation connected in the front yard between the house main shutoff and tap.
Insurance was going to drop me. Installation of the flood detector auto valve kept me insured. Tech is a lot better now than 2016 and I agree one of your wifi enabled tools is better.

Can you shut it off remotely?

I ordered the rainbird esp-tm2 controller 12 station with the wifi module for my smart sprinkler controller. Hunter was favored by Redditt, but I liked the simpler controller that still retains a dial

Going with the NCO Bull dog wifi valve controller. I will make sure I have good connectivity before I mount the valve. With Amazon I can always return it and go with the Z-Wave option

 

[Inukshuk]

Can you shut it off remotely?

No. Was not an option I would have even known to search in 2016. Maybe I will upgrade. Would help for anytime I might forget.

 

[allen.wrench]

sure. I am, already planning that. It doesnt solve the issue of water at the above copper pipes and valve though and that is what I am looking at. The more I think about it the more I am leaning towards the main line valve I can turn on and off and that can determine leaks while gone. Haven't fully decided. I got a lot of time before I will need this

I bought a bhyve smart controller in 2021 when I bought my house. The old controller made no sense. The bhyve is about as far as possible from my wifi router and somehow it maintains a good connection. More often my phone has a hard time connecting due to data demands. Its app is simple and functional

If a sprinkler controller is trustworthy and has enough channels, it could control a low voltage valve to the house and even a drain valve to release any pressure in the system. It might not be intended that way, but intent and ability are different things. Just saying.

I have six Swann leak detectors spread around my house where I suspect a leak is more probable. But all together I do not expect any leaks. I got the detectors for ~6$ each on clearance at Lowes. And they work. I occasionally pick up one of the detector electrodes, the other end on the wire lights up, and I get a notification on my phone there was a leak detected. Then a notification of the leak being cleared after I take my finger off the electrodes. If I needed some detectors right now, I would be willing to pay their regular price, ~20$ each, for these Swann detectors.

I use the detectors to alert me of a place that I might not look otherwise but I have to directly take action. It would be fun to add an electronically controlled whole house shutoff valve.

Allen

 

[Romer]

Installing the Rainbird TM2 12 zone controller with wifi was the easiest thing I can remember in quite a while. Talking pictures of the wires in the old controller was key.

The app is basic, but lets me do everything I want. So much easier to repair or check the sprinkler system standing right there turn that zone on or off.

I can delete days or just delay the sprinkler from running for up to 14 days

The Bulldog valve is shipping so I will post up after I install that.

This thread is likely boring most readers. I just figure like on cars, someone might benefit from what I learned and what I did to my house

 

[Romer]

Maybe we need a Home Improvement section where posts like this can go. @Hulk ?

I got the Econet BullValve controller for water valves working and tested it several times. The hardest part was getting it setup on wifi. The device is 2.4ghz (Why don't they upgrade?) Every router is different and I had to turn off the Broadcast Address for the 5Ghz while leaving the 2.4Ghz on even though they both broadcast across the same network. Once it was connected, you can turn the 5Ghz address broadcast back on. It then has already made a connection to the app they recommend which is eWelink. If you have zwave devices, I read it is easier to set it up with that. Once setup and tested on my desk I went and installed it on the indoor sprinkler valve

Turned on the sprinkler via my Rainbird app. Then closed the valve via the eWelink and watched the sprinklr stop watering. Then opened the valve and watched the sprinkler come alive again

I know this has mostly been a thread from me to me, but maybe someone will benefit from it in the future

So when I travel in cold months, I will turn the water main off

When I travel in spring or fall when the sprinkler may need to run, I will shut the house lines off via the water filter input and use the app to turn on/off the sprinkler system.

I can use the ring cameras to see it work and follow up by looking at my community well web page that has daily reports of my water usage by the hour.

 

[allen.wrench]

Funny timing is yesterday I got outside mid-day to find one of my zones blasting away water. I checked my controller and everything electronics was set to be off. Something got into the physical diaphragm valve causing it to stay open. I turned it off using its manual override. A little bit later I open the manual override back, and the valve was working again. I vaguely remember another of my valves doing that in 2021. I rebuilt it and totally fixed the unclear sticking problem. I will likely need to rebuild the one from yesterday.

If I were away from home I would need to shutoff the main valve feeding secondary water to my sprinklers. Though in the winter, secondary water is just off.

This is helpful. Does the valve manipulator have a lot of torque to turn a resistant PVC ball valve? How does the controller hook up to the existing valve, or did you replace the valve entirely? Sorry if you explained it before, I didn't see it.

I was thinking about another dedicated section too. I do have some home projects that would be fun to share. I'd definitely want to talk about lawn care, planting & pruning trees, wood chippers, and other gardening/plant stuff. Some projects are even truck related, for example: adding a gantry system to lift stuff in/out of my truck, making a hose stand to feed water for pressure washing the truck, a shade sail in my driveway to make working in the sun tolerable, and making a mobile shield to protect neighbors & sidewalk peoples from welding arc flash. Maybe some of these improvements will even reduce the amount of cursing neighbors hear when I smash my thumb or whatever happens. At the same time I was also thinking about starting a comedy thread, and possibly putting it in the Politics section. I Can't Make This Up by Hart has me planning to try stand-up comedy, I need to prepare, and highly likely to offend some people with the jokes in my head. An honest audience on the Internet should be a good enough test stage to heckle me into an awesome comedian

Yes, all of that to say and I'll be there with maybe just enough ideas.

Allen

 

[DouglasVB]

Since we're renting and on city water, we've got a https://flumewater.com/ that works very well at catching leaks downstream from the water meter. We are friends with our neighbors and can text one of them to run over to the house and shut off the whole house shutoff valve (required where we live to be external to the house in an easy to access above ground location). There still could be a leak between that valve and the meter, and in that case it would be calling the water company to shut off the water at the street (the water company valve is buried under the street and they will have to cut the asphalt to get to it... long stupid story).

The Flume system has a "vacation" mode where it will alert you if any water flow is detected and email your emergency contacts. Otherwise in "normal" mode it will tell you if there's a slow leak or a high water usage outside of your normal patterns.

The one thing I don't like about Flume is it'll silently fail when the batteries in the water meter unit run down. That happens about every three years.

If I owned the place, I'd put in a remotely operable main valve right behind the water meter. And I could link it to the Flume using Home Assistant or similar automation software to automatically shut it if something way outside of the normal usage pattern was detected.

 

[Romer]

It just clamps on the original valve. No plumbing work required. The video in post 10 does a good job of showing how it works. It says it has lots of torque and I must have tested it about 10 times yesterday with no issues

 

[Hulk]

Maybe we need a Home Improvement section where posts like this can go. @Hulk ?

I'm up for it. Anyone else in agreement?