Moab trails closed.

[J Kimmel]

I read a quote recently, not sure who it's from. "We've become a society of all rights and no responsibility." We want the freedom to do whatever we want on our "public" land because we claim ownership of it. It's ours to do as we please and it's somebody else's responsibility to take care of it. As much as Rising Sun and other groups promote good behavior, there's a greater and louder community of off roaders that does not. If we don't find ways to promote a peaceful and cohesive existence in the backcountry we will continue to see more closures. It's the responsibility of influential organizations and businesses that market to our community to promote better behavior. Some of these trails can open back up if we stop being so stubborn and show a greater effort toward responsible behavior. In this instance the BLM has the authority to choose who's side to be on and I assure you it's not the group of people that bashes on them.

The conflict and destruction caused by motorized users is the root argument of closure advocates, whether you believe it exists or not. What they see happen in real life, the noise that ruins an otherwise peaceful location, and what they see promoted in advertisements is all fuel to their fire. They make a huge effort to support land management agencies while we tear them down. We have to promote change from within the community if we want to keep trails open. Accept responsibility of the bad behavior and confront it.

This is what organizations like brc and stay the trail are designed to do.
The anti access group has largely no idea at all what reality on the ground is like, only they’ve been sold that everything is being destroyed and must be saved because they never leave the city.

the fact is we’re going to see more closures regardless of our behavior and regardless of our efforts because the anti access advocates believe no access is ultimately best not only for management but climate change etc.

The conflicts are ironic to me because there are millions of acres of undisturbed land only accessible by foot. Yet they walk on motorized trails.

 

[timmbuck2]

Honestly the people trying to get these trails closed have little concern about anything other than closing access. Period. The trails could be perfect and the people using them could be perfect, but these people just want the trails closed, no matter what. I just can't wrap my head around how to combat that...we can and should educate as much as possible. But that doesn't matter to them and it shows. Efficient and consistent enforcement of the current laws and regulations would solve many of the problems that do exist, but there is zero money for that in any budget. I do not remember once seeing any enforcement on any trails in Moab....maybe someone at Poison Spider walking the line of trucks airing down, but never have I seen anyone on the trails enforcing regulations. I just don't think our usual method of fighting these attempts to shut down the trails will ever work because they are disingenuous on their true goals. And they are winning and will continue to win...

 

[Burt88]

This is what organizations like brc and stay the trail are designed to do.

BRC is ignoring that bad behavior exists while promoting a narrative to not give an inch and zero compromise which is childish. When I spoke with Ben at Expo West he flat out denied there is bad behavior and the message projected by BRC conveniently ignores the issue. This is a common feeling among many supporters discussing the topic on their social media posts. Stay the Trail and Tread Lightly confront the situation head on and push a different and more productive message.

BRC would have my continued support if they adopt a more sensible message.
Like "hey everybody, since a lot of you have been naughty and haven't acted responsible in this particular public lands area we are going to support shutting down a few unused and unnecessary trails to calm the situation and try to work with the BLM and its wonderful staff to keep a few of these popular routes and overlooks open. We still have broad access to the area in question. The misuse that has occurred makes our argument to retain motorized access in court far more difficult and this is the result. Don't just send us money, act appropriately." Or something along those lines.

Without accurate information we have no fight left. Too many people have adopted a false narrative on both sides of the fight and we need to correct our own narrative for the sake of retaining credibility.

 

[J Kimmel]

this closure shows we don’t much fight left anyway.
When do they acknowledge bad behavior? They just aim to close everything.

 

[Burt88]

This is just food for thought. The 2024 permit was unanimously denied for the Bronco Safari because last year things got way out of hand. My understanding is that the incidents didn't happen on official trail runs but they happened during the event and witnesses reported the vehicles associated with the incidents were Broncos. This is what is happening because there is a subculture within good groups of people that will ruin it for everybody. The bad behavior of a few is what gets noticed. This behavior is what closure advocates take notes on and justify closures to areas that haven't been trashed yet. And rightfully so.

But look at the bright side, Cruise Moab can go back to the first weekend of May again because Spanish Trails Arena opened up. Too soon?

2024 Moab Bronco Safari Rescheduled, Moving to New Utah Location

The 2024 Moab Bronco Safari is moving to new dates and a new location. The decision stemmed from permitting issues, but there's a responsibility here for all off-roaders.

thebronconation.com

 

[Corbet]

Just food for thought. In my many years of speaking with local Moab business owners CM has always received high praise. Both participant behavior and probably more importantly a profitable weekend at the cash register. We could move CM to a different venue in protest. I don't really support this idea, just tossing it into the discussion. At this point I'm not sure one event would really put a dent in the Moab economy. And returning could prove to be impossible in the future. As many of you know I have not attended CM in a long time. Moab has become such a circus I don't find it all that enjoyable anymore. I simply can't get excited to hang out there and witness the stupidity. Same goes for most national parks these days. We have too many people recreating in too little space and our solution is to reduce the space even more. Only going to get worse.

 

[MountainGoat]

I don't se any reason to protest the county for this decision. They are trying to clean up the very circus Corbet is referring to. Our event has not historically been any such thing, and we need to keep it that way.

 

[Corbet]

My thought was not to protest the County as much as remove some revenue to potentially prompt the business community to support keeping things open. Standard American follow the money tactic.

 

[Burt88]

Yes to both of those comments. Cruise Moab has always had a reputation of high regard in the Moab community and I'm confident it will remain that way. Our committee does a great job in that regard. Moab locals have had to react to the abuse of irresponsible users and I have to agree with them in some ways. The circus can't continue.

The incidents that occurred during Bronco Safari involved broken trucks due to unsafe practices, off trail use, garbage left behind, and graffiti. Again, these were proven NOT to have occurred on event trail runs but were tied to the event by association. I think the only thing tied directly to the event was allowing additional trucks in excess of permits on some runs. Though it's a bad circumstance for their event it wasn't addressed appropriately and condemned by the event organizers until after many complaints.

 

[jps8460]

Good solid discussion going on here… I’m still unpacking some of the comments. One thing that concerns me is closure without alternate openings. Confining trail pressure into fewer and fewer areas is a self fulfilling prophecy for trail closures due to “irresponsible” use.

I’ll again bring up the false narrative that irresponsible use causes closure. The truth is that it may be ammunition for activist groups, but it’s organized activists that get trails shut down through influence on our agencies….. the exact way we loose other privileges (and even rights).

Mike brings up a good point that “1 bad apple may spoil the bunch”, but in my opinion the Bronco mishaps were a great way for the anti-motorized folks to help move their agenda along….. hmmm where have I seen that tactic used before… can’t put my finger on it…

Anyway, it sucks to see. I also don’t believe that BRC is naively thinking that bad isn’t happening. However it doesn’t get them money to brow beat their constituents. Like everything today, there is no funding in middle ground.

Moreover, what do you think the chance are of the BLM or FS letting a private entity manage the parts that they can’t get to?

 

[DouglasVB]

Moreover, what do you think the chance are of the BLM or FS letting a private entity manage the parts that they can’t get to?

Considering how many campgrounds and such that are now managed by private for profit companies... There's definitely a big chance if there's money to be made.

 

[Beach Boy]

All of the above is why this year will be my last year to Cruise Moab as I am selling all of my Toyota's, and probably selling my house in Moab. It was a good run since I started off-roading in Breckenridge in the late 90's where I lived and now recently in Moab. But with the closures and how crowded all of the trails are and noticing how so many disrespect the trails and the beauty of the area we love to travel. I noticed it from Utah through California on my 7 week camping trip this last summer, it was the last straw. Time to move on to other adventures, living and exploring Peru.

 

[jps8460]

Considering how many campgrounds and such that are now managed by private for profit companies... There's definitely a big chance if there's money to be made.

Are these on FS a land? Totally curious.

Side note: Hell if the BLM wanted to get their entire years worth the budget all they’d have to do is sit at Chocolate Thunder during KOH and write DUI’s…. I kid of course, just a great example of laws created that aren’t enforced.

 

[DouglasVB]

Are these on FS a land? Totally curious.

Side note: Hell if the BLM wanted to get their entire years worth the budget all they’d have to do is sit at Chocolate Thunder during KOH and write DUI’s…. I kid of course, just a great example of laws created that aren’t enforced.

Yeah most USFS campgrounds these days are managed by private companies. Happened in the early 2000s. It's made campgrounds more expensive and worse in my experience.

 

[Corbet]

Yeah most USFS campgrounds these days are managed by private companies. Happened in the early 2000s. It's made campgrounds more expensive and worse in my experience.

Exactly. But I’m sure some politician is guaranteed a fine campaign contribution down the road.

More private management coming to federal campgrounds?

The National Park Service could soon deploy a pilot program testing the expansion of amenities like food trucks and mobile camp stores, if Interior Secretary

www.eenews.net

 

[ScaldedDog]

Good solid discussion going on here… I’m still unpacking some of the comments. One thing that concerns me is closure without alternate openings. Confining trail pressure into fewer and fewer areas is a self fulfilling prophecy for trail closures due to “irresponsible” use.

I’ll again bring up the false narrative that irresponsible use causes closure. The truth is that it may be ammunition for activist groups, but it’s organized activists that get trails shut down through influence on our agencies….. the exact way we loose other privileges (and even rights).

Mike brings up a good point that “1 bad apple may spoil the bunch”, but in my opinion the Bronco mishaps were a great way for the anti-motorized folks to help move their agenda along….. hmmm where have I seen that tactic used before… can’t put my finger on it…

Anyway, it sucks to see. I also don’t believe that BRC is naively thinking that bad isn’t happening. However it doesn’t get them money to brow beat their constituents. Like everything today, there is no funding in middle ground.

Moreover, what do you think the chance are of the BLM or FS letting a private entity manage the parts that they can’t get to?

/\ Absolutely spot on. High minded moral arguments are fine, but once things get to court it's just another game played with money. There is winning, and there is losing, and there is nothing else. BRC needs some junkyard dogs dressed in suits and to never, ever move off message. The other side sure doesn't.

Mark

 

[Hulk]

@Burt88 Here's a post today from Blue Ribbon talking about taking personal responsibility and stopping bad behavior.

 

[Corbet]

That post to me only supports SUWA’s position of closing everything to everyone. No where in the video was there any instance of a wheeled vehicle. It was almost deflecting the responsibility to other users other than the ones they represent. Obviously not in his words but only in the images. One can argue hikers have similar impacts but generally speaking, the hiker who takes the time and effort to access somewhere like that without motorized assistance is not the hiker leaving trash and graffiti behind.

That said I spent week in the WindRivers this summer. 3 days of which was completely off trail deep into the wilderness area. I had never seen so much trash left behind. Most of which had to be hikers. But a broken camp chair and a busted up large coffee pot I’m assuming came in on horseback.

 

[Burt88]

@Hulk I saw that video yesterday. The message brings up some good points, but when it comes to the management perspective Ben fails to acknowledge that a high traffic point of interest is far different than managing remote areas. What it does do is point out the failure of the public. That even a popular place is trashed by human beings and our collective avoidance of responsible behavior. What I'd prefer to see is a video of the actual damage way out in areas less frequented, and ask why the hell do you asshats need to go off trail and leave trash way the f--- out here?

This example is what closure advocates see at popular areas. It's logical for them to try to get ahead of it. I don't blame them one bit. Just imagine for a sec, if horseshoe bend remained open to vehicles to this day. There'd be far more destruction than what you see there. That place used to be remote and unmanaged and didn't need to be managed because fewer people knew about it off road vehicles were far less advanced. A horse had a larger footprint than an old willy's jeep. Times have changed and technology has outpaced average human intelligence.

What I can't wrap my head around is this expectation that the entirety of managing public lands falls solely on the agency looking over it. We've stripped their resources to the bare minimum and throw them under the bus constantly. In light of our proclaimed rights to be free responsible citizens, shouldn't a large portion of management responsibility fall on citizens? This is where I apply pressure to the most prominent organizations and businesses of motorized recreation to do more to influence their customers. Stop looking the other way for profit and fundraising.

It's like I live in a generation who grew up with parents who always picked up after them and avoided any real responsibility. Oh wait, I did.

 

[Burt88]

@ScaldedDog whatever the message currently is, which has been the same for decades, just got the largest area closed to motorized access in my lifetime that has a usable network of roads to explore. More closures are in the pipeline and likely to succeed. The message is losing. If you want to be a winner perhaps a change in strategy should be on the table.