PabloCruise
Hard Core 4+
I put some Michelins (from Costco) on the Civic. They are doing fine.
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Tire talk
- Thread starter DomOfTheDead
- Start date
PabloCruise
Hard Core 4+
Weds AM was cold (2 degrees F) here, and the LX had a flat.
It was time to replace the KO2s, so off to Discount I went for a set of KO3s. $$$
I was considering the Falken ATs. The comparisons make it look like they do not last as long as the BFGs.
It was time to replace the KO2s, so off to Discount I went for a set of KO3s. $$$
I was considering the Falken ATs. The comparisons make it look like they do not last as long as the BFGs.
Just did Durango to Ouray on 550. Probably the worst visibility I’ve ever driven it in. Toyo Open Country WLT1 snow tires did great. Predicable cornering and braking.
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Cruisertrash
Rising Sun Member
@PabloCruise Further update: This week the roads in our neighborhood in downtown Denver went through a bunch of freeze/thaw cycles and iced up pretty good. I'll give the Klevers a 6/10 rating on ice, with a 10 being the best studded ice-specific tire money can buy and 1 being cheapo off-brand highway tires that are bald. I consider that pretty good. They didn't spin out overly often and I didn't get sideways (unless it was on purpose).
Still completely happy with these Klever RTs.
Still completely happy with these Klever RTs.
HDavis
Hard Core 4+
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2019
- Messages
- 1,318
Same, I drove the 200 a couple times in the ice now with the Klever rt and I am happy. I would say its a 7.5 or 8 out of 10 for a vehicle of its weight. I I have had Nitto ridge grapplers which are a 3/10 and Falken Wild Peaks which I would give a 6/10 on the 200 to give some background.
Maybe different direction than the rest of this thread, but any idea what the SMALLEST tire I can fit on OEM 16" 100 series wheels? The LC is now our 3rd vehicle and I'd be willing to swap to a small tire for garaging during the winter or necessary projects.
Curly
Rising Sun Member
- Joined
- Apr 17, 2024
- Messages
- 179
Jumping in the pool here...
Looking at changing tires on my 80 to an M/T. I'm currently running BFG KO2s, but would like to take capability to the next step (or so I think).
Will there be any actual increase in off road ability / terrain access / more trails opened up to me with this type of tire change, or is it all in my head?
Looking at changing tires on my 80 to an M/T. I'm currently running BFG KO2s, but would like to take capability to the next step (or so I think).
Will there be any actual increase in off road ability / terrain access / more trails opened up to me with this type of tire change, or is it all in my head?
I run KM3s for the thicker sidewall. The bigger tread is not needed out here 99% of the time. If you are getting into a clay or silt dominant soil, then they would have benefit. Otherwise, sandy soils are better approached with a tighter tread to keep you on top instead of digging a hole, also more rubber on rock surfaces is better than a wider lug IMHO.
The only other benefit from my point of view is a marginally higher unsprung weight on the ground, but is it worth the lesser mileage and noisier ride?
The only other benefit from my point of view is a marginally higher unsprung weight on the ground, but is it worth the lesser mileage and noisier ride?
Probably 95% in your head but really depends on the terrain. In the desert very little difference. Mud traction will be noticeably better. One of the in-between tires might be a better choice. Get the stronger sidewall and an aggressive AT tread pattern. Personally my biggest fear with my 80 is loosing a sidewall on some really off camber situation and having that cause a roll.
Curly
Rising Sun Member
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- Apr 17, 2024
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I hadn't really thought of the sidewall, so that's a great point. The sand part and unsprung weight also hadn't crossed my mind, so there's a nice spiral to follow into the depths of the internet.
The mileage part would be nominal? I get excited about 13 mpg, but average about 11.5 to 12.
My thinking is better grab on large obstacles and tougher tread.
DomOfTheDead
Event Coordinator
Oooh, the ol A/T vs M/T debate!
I'm interested to see what others say.
I think the factor is about your typical usage and terrain encountered like @Corbet said
I'm a M/T guy, typically a softer compound of the rubber, larger tread voids for self cleaning and a more aggressive sidewall but at a sacrifice for tread wear, kick up, and sometimes poor wet/icy on road performance when traditionally compared to A/Ts. But that gap has been closing with some really aggressive A/Ts on the market recently.
Another vote for BFG km3, also recommend Cooper and Kenda
I'm interested to see what others say.
I think the factor is about your typical usage and terrain encountered like @Corbet said
I'm a M/T guy, typically a softer compound of the rubber, larger tread voids for self cleaning and a more aggressive sidewall but at a sacrifice for tread wear, kick up, and sometimes poor wet/icy on road performance when traditionally compared to A/Ts. But that gap has been closing with some really aggressive A/Ts on the market recently.
Another vote for BFG km3, also recommend Cooper and Kenda
Curly
Rising Sun Member
- Joined
- Apr 17, 2024
- Messages
- 179
The M/T I'm considering is the Yokohama Geolandar M/T G003. They're the highest rated in every category.
There was a member in a minitruck for the snow run - red with a tube steel bed - and I briefly spoke with him about them. He was happy with their performance and road noise, but had only run them for about 5k if I remember correctly.
Anyone else running these that can speak to their performance?
There was a member in a minitruck for the snow run - red with a tube steel bed - and I briefly spoke with him about them. He was happy with their performance and road noise, but had only run them for about 5k if I remember correctly.
Anyone else running these that can speak to their performance?
DaveInDenver
Rising Sun Ham Guru
AT vs MT goes back to when Moses shipped his first surplus Willys back home in a crate.
The difference is marginal for most of us. For their specific task, mud, soft snow, deep sand, loose roots and dirt the MT tread will excel. On slickrock probably too, where pattern and sipes don't matter much.
There's times MT will be worse, like pavement, gravel, hard snow, etc. That's why an All Terrain exists. It's equally marginal all the time. It's not that most ATs can't do mud and snow, it's just that they aren't great in it. It's still usually a pretty aggressive tread.
So it boils down to opinion mostly. My $0.02 is it's pretty rare I find a time when I wish I had an MT and when I do a set of tire chains go on. That is better than an MT for those times. The rest of the time the noise, the slipping on the highway. Not worth it. But I also don't go looking for super hard trails all the time where living daily with an MT is just the price you pay to play.
Now the sidewall angle, there is something to that. I'd run a strong AT over an MT with weak sidewalls just about any day. There's a downside to 3-ply in ride quality, MPG and such. So that is a trade-off I am willing to live with. I've sliced sidewalls on otherwise technically mild roads. I can overcome traction challenged ATs with lockers, winch, lower air pressure. Walking 50 miles is a bigger drag to me. That possibility was on the table when I had two flats (in 3-ply BFGs even) on the shale road to Toroweap but a handful of tire plugs held well enough.
The difference is marginal for most of us. For their specific task, mud, soft snow, deep sand, loose roots and dirt the MT tread will excel. On slickrock probably too, where pattern and sipes don't matter much.
There's times MT will be worse, like pavement, gravel, hard snow, etc. That's why an All Terrain exists. It's equally marginal all the time. It's not that most ATs can't do mud and snow, it's just that they aren't great in it. It's still usually a pretty aggressive tread.
So it boils down to opinion mostly. My $0.02 is it's pretty rare I find a time when I wish I had an MT and when I do a set of tire chains go on. That is better than an MT for those times. The rest of the time the noise, the slipping on the highway. Not worth it. But I also don't go looking for super hard trails all the time where living daily with an MT is just the price you pay to play.
Now the sidewall angle, there is something to that. I'd run a strong AT over an MT with weak sidewalls just about any day. There's a downside to 3-ply in ride quality, MPG and such. So that is a trade-off I am willing to live with. I've sliced sidewalls on otherwise technically mild roads. I can overcome traction challenged ATs with lockers, winch, lower air pressure. Walking 50 miles is a bigger drag to me. That possibility was on the table when I had two flats (in 3-ply BFGs even) on the shale road to Toroweap but a handful of tire plugs held well enough.
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DaveInDenver
Rising Sun Ham Guru
Well, seems hard to believe he'd drive a WWII era Toyota or Mercedes in that strained mental image.
Curly
Rising Sun Member
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- Apr 17, 2024
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- 179
Guess I figured my main man Mo would ride in on clouds in a Chariot of Fire or some such. Eat your heart out Brabus
Johnny Utah
Rising Sun Member
I’m an A/T person. I’ve always been a fan of the BFG ATs. Just to play devils advocate I’ll say that side wall strength, and how a sidewall holds up is 50% tire design, 40% user, and 10% luck. During the 2023 Baja XL we had nine trucks in our group with several different types of tires including ATs and MTs. We did over 2,000 miles down the peninsula to Cabo and back, 80% off road. We had two tire failures, both were BFG KO2s and both were sidewall punctures.
I don’t know what this means but maybe something along the lines of sh*t happens.
I still think the BFG AT and MT are some of the toughest tires out there but sometimes you just have bad luck. The desert is a ruthless place.
I don’t know what this means but maybe something along the lines of sh*t happens.
I still think the BFG AT and MT are some of the toughest tires out there but sometimes you just have bad luck. The desert is a ruthless place.
DaveInDenver
Rising Sun Ham Guru
You're probably right.
I've kind of always thought there was some correlation to the vehicle, too. By that I mean it seems sidewall cuts on BFG happen to lighter weight truck, like that Tacoma you show and my old mini truck. The reason for that might be the heavy sidewall (and especially with load range E) tend to force us to air down more to get the squish, which exposes the tire more to snake bites pinching between the rim and road and being pushed really flat over a sharp object. You notice the cuts are usually on the shoulder where the tread transitions to the sidewall, right where a tire becomes vulnerable. With relatively "weak" sidewall tires, like Duratracks, you will see the splits at the rim or in the middle of the sidewall as often as higher.
It's just a working theory. Shrug.
I mean, ultimately it's not like any tire designed for a road vehicle can be as strong as an implement tire so 2-ply or 3-ply and rubber thickness can only vary so much. There are things the designer has to do so it can be mounted on a rim, be tolerant of the heat build up and what-not that will force choices.
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I'm on my 2nd set of Yoko G003's in 37". I ran the Toyo M/T and Original General Grabber red labels in 315's prior. I can't really say any of them were definitively better than the others with respect to traction. The first set of Yokos wore the most evenly. I remember really liking the Generals at high speed on gravel/loose dry conditions. I think next time I'll probably back down to something like the Toyo R/T or Yoko Geo X-AT for the reasons I mentioned above and to maybe reduce HWY noise.