PSA Advisory about "recovery rings" especially this one

[Corbet]

One fundamental difference when comparing our winch line to a climbing application is the construction of the rope. A climbing rope has an outer sheath to protect the inner rope against damage. It has qualities to do just that while the inner rope is carrying the load to protect the climber. A winch rope has no such protector.

 

[damon]

Clearly one of us has done our research!

Thanks for all the good info.

No one has ever accused Daniel of not researching anything down to the enth. It's the lawyer in him.

MUST HAVE ALL THE FACTS!

 

[damon]

So add a spray bottle full of water to your kit and stand right next to a winch line under load (or if winching solo stop/start repeatedly as you run back and forth with water?
.... Asking for a friend.

I know you are kidding, but you couldn't pay me to be anywhere near a winch line under load LOL

 

[rushthezeppelin]

Do you need to de-rate synthetic winch line when wet? I think that is the case for conventional rope. For sailing, the rating of a line drops when wet, probably for climbing too.

I would assume that is the case with climbing. We thinking more in terms of how it kills the rope stretch on dynamic ropes though. It can cause falls to be just a tad bit more rough.

 

[Hulk]

I own a Safe Xtract pulley block but I think I need to get some of these rings just for spite. Which ones are the worst? Are there any that are lined with abrasive diamond grit or razor blades?

 

[nuclearlemon]

I own a Safe Xtract pulley block but I think I need to get some of these rings just for spite. Which ones are the worst? Are there any that are lined with abrasive diamond grit or razor blades?

you can add skateboard tape after appropriately scoring the surface with 80 grit for adhesion

 

[BritKLR]

Not sure if the current ring thing came from boating or climbing but I seem to recall these "rings" being a thing in Rope Work some 25 years ago (fixed on your working/second rope with a prusik for hailing gear up a rope) but lost favor due to if the hauling rope came off the pulley and got caught in the prusik it could cut through prusik or damage the rope from getting too hot. They were a thing to help save weight on your belt rig. Now everyone in climbing uses micro pulleys instead and I'm not sure you can even buy a ring pulley anymore?

Maybe a lesson to be learned there?

 

[Inukshuk]

Yup. How used on boats: "Around the outside is a rounded groove much like that of a traditional sheave. However, in the case of a low-friction ring, the running line feeds through the hole in the middle, which has been rounded in all directions to allow the line (or lines) to pass through as smoothly as possible. The outside groove, on the other hand, is used to secure the ring at the end of another piece of line with a loop."

https://www.sailmagazine.com/diy/deck-gear-low-frictions-rings

Shown here, in most of the sailing uses the ring is secured by a fixed line tied/spliced to the exterior and the redirect passs through the center. And again, these are not vehicle winching loads.

See also https://www.practical-sailor.com/sails-rigging-deckgear/low-friction-rings

And I found this handy deflection angle reference: https://www.boatsnews.com/story/21221/forces-exerted-on-a-pulley

 

[nakman]

There are some new high powered squirt guns that keep hitting my instagram feed.

yeah me too. what's up with that? Never have I ever searched for a squirt gun, or even mentioned one with my phone around.

 

[KC Masterpiece]

yeah me too. what's up with that? Never have I ever searched for a squirt gun, or even mentioned one with my phone around.

 

[timmbuck2]

yeah me too. what's up with that? Never have I ever searched for a squirt gun, or even mentioned one with my phone around.

When Ty and I were at Bill Burke's class in Junction a couple months ago, he talked about 'kinetic rope' a bunch of times, while I had my Android phone out. I have never searched for that term or even said the words out loud. I don't use google assistant or anything like that. The next day I started getting ads for kinetic ropes on all my Meta related feeds.

 

[timmbuck2]

yeah me too. what's up with that? Never have I ever searched for a squirt gun, or even mentioned one with my phone around.

A watergun or advertising company bought a list that had your info on it and they thought what you have searched for would be a good fit for someone who likes water guns. Now that I have typed waterguns, I expect to see ads soon!

 

[BritKLR]

Yup. How used on boats: "Around the outside is a rounded groove much like that of a traditional sheave. However, in the case of a low-friction ring, the running line feeds through the hole in the middle, which has been rounded in all directions to allow the line (or lines) to pass through as smoothly as possible. The outside groove, on the other hand, is used to secure the ring at the end of another piece of line with a loop."

https://www.sailmagazine.com/diy/deck-gear-low-frictions-rings

Shown here, in most of the sailing uses the ring is secured by a fixed line tied/spliced to the exterior and the redirect passs through the center. And again, these are not vehicle winching loads.
View attachment 115924

See also https://www.practical-sailor.com/sails-rigging-deckgear/low-friction-rings

And I found this handy deflection angle reference: https://www.boatsnews.com/story/21221/forces-exerted-on-a-pulley

View attachment 115925

Interesting. But the ones we used were small rings on a prusik and used just like the way the recovery rings are used. Nice to know where they came from!

 

[J Kimmel]

Is it a vehicle weight thing? No way to straight pull this guy. One pulled him over with a rope and ring and I straight pulled it back off the Boulder. No issues. I can see them degrading over time but I replace my rope regardless every few seasons and if one breaks we just thread it back together.

 

[Inukshuk]

Is it a vehicle weight thing? No way to straight pull this guy. One pulled him over with a rope and ring and I straight pulled it back off the Boulder. No issues. I can see them degrading over time but I replace my rope regardless every few seasons and if one breaks we just thread it back together.

Buggies are a whole level up!
More weight = more friction, right?
If rope breaks under load bad things can happen.

You and many in Rising Sun have a lot of experience. Many will almost intuitively know what will work or not.
Recovery gear is hot these days and sellers are motivated by many things.
I could buy a $20 Amazonite ring, a $219 Maxtrax ring (good for 66,000 lbs, cause you need that right?) or a $129 Yankum offfset.
Rings are "new" "cool" and making money.
Some users genuinely believe.

To circle back, I have not heard of failures. I want to follow best practices. I cannot come up with any reason friction on a rope is a better practice than friction on a steel axle with bushing

 

[wesintl]

I picked up a shackle hook to go with my recovery ring

 

[Inukshuk]

That is a work of art!

 

[allen.wrench]

I'm still just beginning to build my recovery kit. Thanks for the insights here 😃

@wesintl you got a hook big enough I could borrow & weld onto my screw pin bow shackle?

Allen

 

[timmbuck2]

ouch

 

[On the RX]

Was this a winch ring?! Doesnt seem like the correct application if this is the case. Either way, these dynamic ropes always make me a bit leary since they build energy initially. If something fails before the built energy is used up, it adds to what ever choas unfoldes when something fails. Reckless Abandon!