Oil and Coolant Mixing

[DaveInDenver]

 

[DaveInDenver]

put it together, you can have it running tonight, tomorrow at the latest.

Yeah. I misplaced a bolt and the dealer here has to order it. It's not uber critical but it's the one that goes under the distributor through the head into the cover. So it's got to be the right length and it's long, M8x50 and all the hardware store has this long is non-JIS so the head won't fit in the machined pocket. Local dealer is terrible.

A week ago you were ready to send it to salvage. I’d clean the surfaces the best you can and button it back up. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it.

There's a lot of moving pieces dealing with family matters on both sides. Cancelled a trip I was supposed to be on this week and moved it back a month, which de-stressed a couple of things.

I should say it wasn't salvage but selling to someone to tow away and deal with. I wouldn't have just sent it to scrap no matter what. It's not completely clear if I'm going to keep or sell it anyway even after I get it running. The heart and the mind(s) don't really agree on that...

Oh, yeah, our pup had to have a plate put in her wrist due to a carpal hyperextension. So she's been in a cast, then has to take it easy, no furniture and is just now able to do steps without tripping and we've been doing rehab work. So I've had to split time wrenching and helping her when I was here alone for a week and a half.






Mainly, it was seriously under-estimating time and over-estimating my skills. And an emotional rollercoaster a bunch of times. Getting bad news piled on a broken head bolt was kind of a tail spin.

 

[rover67]

Don’t let it get you down you’re on your way Dave.

 

[tacomaJoe73]

Yeah. I misplaced a bolt and the dealer here has to order it. It's not uber critical but it's the one that goes under the distributor through the head into the cover. So it's got to be the right length and it's long, M8x50 and all the hardware store has this long is non-JIS so the head won't fit in the machined pocket. Local dealer is terrible.

There's a lot of moving pieces dealing with family matters on both sides. Cancelled a trip I was supposed to be on this week and moved it back a month, which de-stressed a couple of things.

I should say it wasn't salvage but selling to someone to tow away and deal with. I wouldn't have just sent it to scrap no matter what. It's not completely clear if I'm going to keep or sell it anyway even after I get it running. The heart and the mind(s) don't really agree on that...

Oh, yeah, our pup had to have a plate put in her wrist due to a carpal hyperextension. So she's been in a cast, then has to take it easy, no furniture and is just now able to do steps without tripping and we've been doing rehab work. So I've had to split time wrenching and helping her when I was here alone for a week and a half.

View attachment 128844




Mainly, it was seriously under-estimating time and over-estimating my skills. And an emotional rollercoaster a bunch of times. Getting bad news piled on a broken head bolt was kind of a tail spin.

keep up the good fight, know we're all supporting you out here brother'

 

[DaveInDenver]

Gotta rant here. So I went to get the handful of parts I knew I was going to need.

Checked my normal online places, Ourisman (McGeorge) in Virginia, Olathe in Kansas. Printed a little spreadsheet with truck VIN and part numbers (original from the old EPC and even had the superseeded part numbers). Put the list and extended price on it as a little nudge and stopped at my dealer...

Original​	Part Number​	Description​	Qty​	List​	McGeorge​	Notes​
91611-60855​	91611-60855​	Bolt W Washer​	1​	$2.82​	$2.15​	M8x50 Timing Cover #5​
23300-34100​	23300-34100​	Fuel Filter​	1​	$11.42​	$7.75​	​
90923-06001​	90923-06009​	Insulator Fuel Pump​	1​	$11.03​	$7.49​	​
90923-05005​	90923-05019​	Fuel Pump Gasket​	2​	$5.55​	$4.23​	​

He punches it in and proceeds to tell me his prices. The bolt is $9, the filter $27, fuel pump insulator $25, the gaskets $11 each.

I'm all like "You know it's not April 1 but April 1 and zero, right?"

He was dead serious. And to top it off he'd have to order it all anyway. I'd be out the door for $90 or something like that and wouldn't get them until Monday probably.

The excuse he gives is "When you order online you might not be getting real Toyota parts." OK, fair enough if you don't know the source. Not valid with these sources, they are Toyota dealers.

"Then there's shipping." Yes, $14 in this case.

I get the feeling these guys are still operating on the idea that it's 1993 and the Internet is the wild west of shopping and not real competition. I ended up using Olathe, it'll take an extra day in shipping but the parts are coming from a combination of their stock and the same Kansas City distribution as Colorado dealers use.

Just don't get them. I said I'd happily pay even just the MSRP Toyota suggests to keep it local but they don't care. I'm not willing to pay 2x and 3x list just to shop local. These guys also complain that the municipalities don't buy fleet trucks from them. No shit, Sherlock. A dealer in Denver or SLC prices WAY lower and arranging to drive it on and off a trailer ain't rocket surgery.

 

[AimCOTaco]

Rant on Dave, I find it weird as a Toyota owner going to Toyota stores and getting a crazy range of different prices for the same damn thing.
I know it's the private dealer model and all but dang, the Toyota brand is still on the front so is it so crazy we'd expect some consistency in price at least (nevermind service)?!
Having to plan ahead and order from out of state more and more for each project IS a bummer, made worse when things go sideways.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Yeah Andy, the parts industry has always had multiple price sheets, list, retail, jobber, fleet, etc. Back on the eastern slope I used Burt/Groove almost exclusively. Dean introduced me to Scotty and Jerry, later Gene and Joe. Those guys took care of us so we were loyal and took care of them. Basically I think they gave us jobber schedule prices, so they weren't losing money even at those prices.

Of course there was Derrick and other guys who took care of the club. But even walking in off the street the retail price was usually either straight list or somewhere between the "good" price and MSRP. Even Petersen in Ft. Collins wasn't doing over list.

I just don't get these guys. It's insulting and if you've ever heard of Google you can figure out they're screwing you.

And like I told him, it would be much different if he'd had the parts on the shelf. But since he was gonna just order them from K.C. tomorrow anyway what's the advantage to that? Going with an online dealer adds a couple of days overall at 1/3rd the cost and it'll be shipped to my door. Heck, it'll maybe be drop shipped from K.C. and be sitting on the truck or plane right next to the parts going to the local dealer.

 

[nuclearlemon]

Original​	Part Number​	Description​	Qty​	List​	McGeorge​	Notes​
91611-60855​	91611-60855​	Bolt W Washer​	1​	$2.82​	$2.15​	M8x50 Timing Cover #5​
23300-34100​	23300-34100​	Fuel Filter​	1​	$11.42​	$7.75​	​
90923-06001​	90923-06009​	Insulator Fuel Pump​	1​	$11.03​	$7.49​	​
90923-05005​	90923-05019​	Fuel Pump Gasket​	2​	$5.55​	$4.23​	​

He punches it in and proceeds to tell me his prices. The bolt is $9, the filter $27, fuel pump insulator $25, the gaskets $11 each.

this is why i have never bought anything from my local dealer in cheyenne. i needed an oil filter and they wanted $9. i said no thanks and went home and ordered 12 . with shipping added it made them about $4/ea

 

[IoN6]

I just don't get these guys. It's insulting and if you've ever heard of Google you can figure out they're screwing you.

Snide-n-snarky addition. I am continually amazed at the lack of gumption of my fellow humans. Most people cannot be bothered to search for the thing they are looking for. So I doubt anyone is price shopping. The Toyota OE stuff WE was selling had wicked markup, and people gobbled it up. Mind blowing.

Less snide-n-snarky, the parts I have been buying for the Tacoma have been 50/50 who is cheaper. Partsouq or Stevinson. Takes a little bit of effort to search both places but some parts are 2-4x more at one place or the other.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Head on, timing kit in, the cover sealed and torqued. Head bolts all pulled to 58 ft-lb without drama. So glad of that.

Hosting the MF'ing head into place alone was a serious PITA. Ugh.

Yeah @rover67 I done did it. I cleaned up the pan and painted it. I think it looks better.

 

[rover67]

Try a 1fz or even worse a 2f head sometime!!

Glad to see it assembled nice work dave

 

[Jacket]

That’s beautiful

 

[fjc man]

The problem with the dealership culture is it’s 3 different entities in the same building that could care less how the other two are doing. It’s all about their departments profit. In that setting there is little cooperation and the customers? 😉

 

[DaveInDenver]

It took a bit of fiddling to get the distributor set right and stay running.

I want to believe. But.

Compression
#1 = 165 psi
#2 = 160 psi
#3 = 160 psi
#4 = 155 psi

Head bolts all click at 58 ft-lb, there's oil across the valve train when I took the cover off.

Set the valve lash to 0.008" on intake and 0.012" on exhaust. This is of course cold. It looks to me like the right valves are tight and loose at the right cycle. #1 TDC #1 intake and exhaust, #2 intake, #3 exhaust. Turn one revolution #3 and #4 intake, #2 and #4 exhaust.

#1 was at the top when I set the head and lined up the timing chain bright links to the gear dots. I did not turn it until I had to do the second set of valves to set initial lash. So I'm pretty certain the cam is timing right.

I cranked it for about 2 minutes with plugs pulled before trying to start. It's filled with oil and coolant. Cooling system held 15 psi for 15 or so minutes while I was pulling the valve cover to look. No sound of leaking, don't see anything leaking.

Have not yet drained oil. The truck doesn't have an oil pressure gauge but the oil pressure idiot light is off.

Don't see any obvious smoke from the tailpipe. When I turn it by hand it feels and sounds fine.

Sad face.


View: https://youtube.com/shorts/yznxcs6IOzc

 

[rover67]

Sounds like the starter is stuck engaged?

 

[HDavis]

It does sound similar to the starter cranking. Could it be a fuel injector that's pulling in air or one of the vacuum lines pulling in air? Did you double check the valve clearance after this initial start-up?

 

[DaveInDenver]

View: https://youtu.be/NW1WJXme4Yk


Yeah, wasn't a stuck starter.

Definitely not an injector. I can say that with 100% certainty. Vacuum leak, that WAS true.

The main problem was a MASSIVE exhaust leak in the form of finger tight bolts on the EGR valve at the head. Was able to get them to good'n'tight using two socket extensions and a u-joint in the middle. What a pain but in the great scheme not the worst thing to have forgotten to torque to spec since they aren't absolutely critical and didn't require removing anything to get at...

Also had the distributor stabbed off a tooth so ignition I think was running about 45 degrees advanced (OK, edit to add that maybe an exaggeration, but it was so far advanced I couldn't see the timing mark). Once I got that right, the EGR leak fixed and the vacuum leak from neglecting to reconnect the brake booster it settled right down.

Idling at 10 degrees advanced.

It's not ready for highway work but around town tomorrow. It was starting to run a little up on the temp gauge and I still need to burp the cooling. Also there's a broken connector for one of the temp senders that I need to fix. Not sure what it's for, it's not EFI and doesn't have a computer. The one for the gauge is present and working. Shrug.

 

[Rzeppa]

When I got my 1978 FJ45 Canadian spec legally imported to Colorado with an EPA waiver at the Montana border, I still had to get it smogged, and had to have it done at the Colorado emissions headquarters in Denver. The head guy, who is a PhD chemist, took an interest in my truck, and tweaked my carb to get it to pass. He told me that EGR in our elevation is a bunch of crap and that we really don't need it and that it doesn't do much to reduce the ozone it is touted to, and that the ozone in the Denver area is about the same as it was before motor vehicles, that it is due to the sun, not NxOx emissions.

I would guess that wouldn't play well with mainstream media, nor with his employment if that came out.

I am glad that what sounded to me like your 22RE wanted to be a diesel was really an exhaust leak!

 

[DaveInDenver]

The audio from my phone doesn't quite capture that sinking feeling up close. It sounded more mechanical. I went down the things I could think of at first, valve cover too tight, didn't snug a rocker lock nut. left a socket behind. I was careful to account for all tools every evening and put them away...

Was it piston slap or rod knock, did I overlook debris, oil starve it. I reused the old cam and rockers (they looked good), so they didn't need to re-mesh but the head casting, valves and timing are all new. I put all that together with assembly lube where I could. Didn't make sense. There was of course the heli-coil.

I decided to walk away and post to clear my head. This helped.

I figured that it I'd done real damage it wasn't going to get better at this point. Got it to run long enough that I could stand in front and really listen to where it was located. Too high to be the rod trying to ventilate the block and it did have a vague whistle that was kind of interesting.

Once it cooled enough I could feel around for missing bolts on the manifolds. Found the loose ones and dope slapped myself.

Trust me Jeff, when I started to disassemble things looking at the mess of vacuum hoses, I thought "Man, I don't deal with emission, WTF am I doing?" I didn't want to desmog, though. I don't know the 22R all that well and my memory of my old 22R-E is fading. But what I do know is diverging from the FSM diagrams and troubleshooting steps doesn't usually make things easier so the emissions stayed.

Still, yeah, last night I was checking out block off plates.

 

[IoN6]

When I got my 1978 FJ45 Canadian spec legally imported to Colorado with an EPA waiver at the Montana border, I still had to get it smogged, and had to have it done at the Colorado emissions headquarters in Denver. The head guy, who is a PhD chemist, took an interest in my truck, and tweaked my carb to get it to pass. He told me that EGR in our elevation is a bunch of crap and that we really don't need it and that it doesn't do much to reduce the ozone it is touted to, and that the ozone in the Denver area is about the same as it was before motor vehicles, that it is due to the sun, not NxOx emissions.

I would guess that wouldn't play well with mainstream media, nor with his employment if that came out.

I am glad that what sounded to me like your 22RE wanted to be a diesel was really an exhaust leak!

Oh man, to have an audio clip of that conversation would be 🔥