Inukshuk
Rising Sun Member
I laid hands on a Stihl battery saw at Ace Hardware today. I would definitely need to demo one. Even at $300 feels too light.
Chain Saws
- Thread starter Inukshuk
- Start date
what do you mean light? as in actual weight? did you pick it up with or without the battery? Without a battery they are feather weight.
DouglasVB
Rising Sun Member
I'm not felling any timber. I'm cutting fallen dead trees out of roads. I hate it when they unload and spring up in the air when you cut through them. So dang freaky even when you know it's coming.
But yeah it'll take some good battery tech before that's a true reality. Although it makes me wonder if we'll see big electric saws that can be run off of trucks. For at least a few years, there were hydraulic operated saws in the PNW. I've seen some demos of them being used at logging fairs. Hundreds of feet of hydraulic line snaking down from a hydraulic pump on a PTO or whatever. Wild stuff back in the old days but I guess it was better than sawing by hand.
DouglasVB
Rising Sun Member
Fallen trees when they spring back up after being cut, probably.
CardinalFJ60
Rising Sun Member
If you're looking for a lifetime saw, get a Stihl. I have my Father in Laws hand me down little all-around use 026 - as in, it's easy to handle. I'm sure the models numbers have changed, but whatever is comparable would be great. I think it's an 18" bar. I had Earl's Saw shop tune it and spruce it back up about 10 years ago. I rarely use it, keep the Stihl Motomix fuel in it and it starts every time and cuts like butter. I fire it up like 1-2 times a year at the very most.
That's about determining how it's loaded and if you need to cut from the bottom or the top. Overlapping cuts can really help. Wedges are super helpful. Comes with practice. I've got my bar stuck a few times. Learned some hard lessons. Now after well over 100+ tress fallen I'm pretty proficient.
I did find the limit of the battery saw this weekend. I was cutting on a 14” Pine that fell over the winter. It was cutting it fine until the battery died. (Normal) After a charge it wouldn’t run. Turns out the thick sap seized up the chain/bar. After disassembly and a bath in WD40 it was back in business. I think the super narrow chain is more sensitive.
DouglasVB
Rising Sun Member
If I hadn't gotten rid of the old Homelite saw I used to carry with a 20" bar (its motor finally blew up after decades of hard use with my father and a few years of light use with me -- it was his saw for doing tree trimming when he did that professionally and then everything else around the farm after that), I'd be looking at figuring out how to convert it to electric just for the heck of it. Sounds like it could be a neat project to "get ahead" of the big companies and make a good electric saw.
But it likely would turn out like all of my other projects -- bad! 🤣
But it likely would turn out like all of my other projects -- bad! 🤣
I used to do chainsaw and small engine repair on the side, and I fixed and sold somewhere around 100 or so probably before my work got too crazy and had me out of town all the time, and no time left on the weekends or weeknights.
My $.02..... I love to sell Stihls, as they sell used for more than Husqvarna, Echo, or any other brand for that fact.... unless you have a rare Husqvarna, then you can sell to a collector or "chainsaw enthusiast" (yes, that is a real thing, believe me!!).
Do I like Stihls, Yes, sure I do. Do I like to work on them and fix them? No, but at least the parts are usually available if the saw was made in the last 30 years, not necessarily the case with the Husqvarnas or Echo saws.
Here are my opinions- with pros and cons of of gas vs. electric
Gas -
Pros:
1. As long as you have fuel mix, bar oil, and sharp chains, you can cut as long as you want
2. If you start with a big enough 2 stroke saw, you can install a shorter or longer bar on it to modify it to what you need to cut (l usually like to run 20 inch bars or longer because I don't like to lean over as much when I cut)
3. You can decide at what elevation you will most likely cut wood at, which will also determine how big of engine you should choose. A 40cc saw will work ok on small hardwood and medium sized conifers in Denver and similar elevation areas. You will want a 60cc or larger if you decide to cut wood at 8,000-10,000 ft. elevation.
4. A Professional series chainsaw will have a Magnesium engine case/housing, and they will last a lifetime if properly maintained and ran on non-ethanol gasoline fuel mixed with quality 2 stroke mix oil (or run canned pre-mix fuel and run it dry and drain the tank after use if you plan to let it set up for a year or more.
5. A professional series chainsaw can be repaired if a part breaks from use or mis-use/abuse.
6. A professional series chainsaw of 50-60cc will be set up to use a .325 sized chain instead of a mini-pico chain like the electric saws and sub~35cc saws use normally. The .325 chain with a round chisel pro-grade chain will cut waaaaay faster than the chain that the gas saws and electric saws come with. The chisel chain will dig harder and won't be as smooth to hold onto as "safety chain/low-kickback chain", but it will go through wood fast!
7. Users tend to respect a Gas chainsaw much more for safe handling
8. You can adjust a gas chainsaw for the ideal mixture at any altitude, otherwise, a saw set correctly for lower elevation will be way too rich if you go up to higher elevations, and it will have much less power than if it was adjusted correctly.
9. You don't have to purchase a very expensive spare battery like a battery saw would require, you just put more fuel mix in the saw and keep on going
10. In a "tough times" situation, you can run on somewhat mediocre gasoline and mix it with castor oil or even engine oil in a worst case scenario. As long as you don't run the engine lean, it will keep going.
11. Pro saws will have adjustable bar oiler pumps, and the user can run more or less bar oil lube, depending on the moisture content of the wood, and the hardness of the wood, keeping the bar and chain cooler with more oil in hardwoods.
12. Most Pro saws will use about one tank of bar oil to one tank of fuel, as a good reminder of when to stop and fill up the oil and fuel tank both together, as well as to clean the bar groove and oiling holes on the bar, and lube the roller tip with grease.
13. a Good pro saw will leave a pile of wood chunks/shavings at your feet pretty quickly
Cons:
1. If you use a dull chain and push too hard, or you have poor fuel with low octane (older gas that you are using) and push it too hard, you can overheat a gas chainsaw and score the piston and cylinder, stopping the saw and requiring a sometimes difficult and somewhat expensive repair.
2. If you adjust the High speed mixture screw, and get it wrong, you can lean out the engine and score the piston and cylinder
3. Many of the newer pro saws in the 50cc+ sized engines have auto-tune(Husqvarna)/ M-Tronic(Stihl) carburetors/fuel metering devices. You do not want a saw with these automatic/electronic systems, they do not work well at elevations and changing elevations, as they many times will not start back when hot at the end of a tank of fuel. There are still many new pro saws that have the good/old standard adjustable carburetors.
4. if you leave a gas saw inside of a truck or vehicle, you will likely smell fuel, as the chainsaw's fuel tank has an air-vent that will allow some fuel vapor release, especially if the saw is left in a hot environment with fuel in the tank. Another reason to drain out the tank after use.
5. Can be tough to start if poorly maintained or incorrect starting technique is used, easily flooded and won't restart without removing and drying the spark plug, and sometimes requiring replacement of the spark plug, so you should carry a spare.
6. Noise. Even the quietest gas saw is relatively loud.
BATTERY SAW-
Pros-
1. Torquey for the size and weight of the saw
2. no fuel smell if kept in a closed box or vehicle
3. quiet
4. No issue with hard starting like 2 strokes can exhibit
Cons -
1. Will you always have the battery charged when you need to use the saw? If you leave the battery charged all the time you will reduce the amount of power it will put out, and how long. Also, what if you aren't done cutting when the battery runs down? You will have to charge it to resume cutting. This isn't a possibility if you are way up in the mountains, at a campsite with no way to charge the battery, or no time to wait to charge the battery.
2. A replacement battery for the higher quality brand saws is very expensive, 50% or more of the cost of the new saw is not uncommon
3. Technology is ever-improving, and the buyers/owners of electric saws will fall victim to saw parts not being replaceable, or serviceable, batteries will die over time with lack-of-use and/or over-use.
4. Battery technology will improve, battery shapes will change and connectors will change, phasing out older battery saws in 5 to 10 years the way the technology changes things.
5. non-adjustable bar oilers on electric saws will not output enough bar oil in some hardwoods and can cause overheated bars and chains and increased bar wear requiring more frequent bar replacement
6. Users tend to forget to fill the bar-oiler tank on electric saws, and they ruin far more chains and bars than gas saws
7. Most electric saws use small "mini-pico" chains that don't cut much of a chunk of wood, almost more smaller chunks/sawdust cuttings
I can go on-and-on with this subject, so if anyone wants to hear more of my $.02, just ask.
I can tell you how to test a used saw to make sure it doesn't have any issues as well, if someone wants to know....
My $.02..... I love to sell Stihls, as they sell used for more than Husqvarna, Echo, or any other brand for that fact.... unless you have a rare Husqvarna, then you can sell to a collector or "chainsaw enthusiast" (yes, that is a real thing, believe me!!).
Do I like Stihls, Yes, sure I do. Do I like to work on them and fix them? No, but at least the parts are usually available if the saw was made in the last 30 years, not necessarily the case with the Husqvarnas or Echo saws.
Here are my opinions- with pros and cons of of gas vs. electric
Gas -
Pros:
1. As long as you have fuel mix, bar oil, and sharp chains, you can cut as long as you want
2. If you start with a big enough 2 stroke saw, you can install a shorter or longer bar on it to modify it to what you need to cut (l usually like to run 20 inch bars or longer because I don't like to lean over as much when I cut)
3. You can decide at what elevation you will most likely cut wood at, which will also determine how big of engine you should choose. A 40cc saw will work ok on small hardwood and medium sized conifers in Denver and similar elevation areas. You will want a 60cc or larger if you decide to cut wood at 8,000-10,000 ft. elevation.
4. A Professional series chainsaw will have a Magnesium engine case/housing, and they will last a lifetime if properly maintained and ran on non-ethanol gasoline fuel mixed with quality 2 stroke mix oil (or run canned pre-mix fuel and run it dry and drain the tank after use if you plan to let it set up for a year or more.
5. A professional series chainsaw can be repaired if a part breaks from use or mis-use/abuse.
6. A professional series chainsaw of 50-60cc will be set up to use a .325 sized chain instead of a mini-pico chain like the electric saws and sub~35cc saws use normally. The .325 chain with a round chisel pro-grade chain will cut waaaaay faster than the chain that the gas saws and electric saws come with. The chisel chain will dig harder and won't be as smooth to hold onto as "safety chain/low-kickback chain", but it will go through wood fast!
7. Users tend to respect a Gas chainsaw much more for safe handling
8. You can adjust a gas chainsaw for the ideal mixture at any altitude, otherwise, a saw set correctly for lower elevation will be way too rich if you go up to higher elevations, and it will have much less power than if it was adjusted correctly.
9. You don't have to purchase a very expensive spare battery like a battery saw would require, you just put more fuel mix in the saw and keep on going
10. In a "tough times" situation, you can run on somewhat mediocre gasoline and mix it with castor oil or even engine oil in a worst case scenario. As long as you don't run the engine lean, it will keep going.
11. Pro saws will have adjustable bar oiler pumps, and the user can run more or less bar oil lube, depending on the moisture content of the wood, and the hardness of the wood, keeping the bar and chain cooler with more oil in hardwoods.
12. Most Pro saws will use about one tank of bar oil to one tank of fuel, as a good reminder of when to stop and fill up the oil and fuel tank both together, as well as to clean the bar groove and oiling holes on the bar, and lube the roller tip with grease.
13. a Good pro saw will leave a pile of wood chunks/shavings at your feet pretty quickly
Cons:
1. If you use a dull chain and push too hard, or you have poor fuel with low octane (older gas that you are using) and push it too hard, you can overheat a gas chainsaw and score the piston and cylinder, stopping the saw and requiring a sometimes difficult and somewhat expensive repair.
2. If you adjust the High speed mixture screw, and get it wrong, you can lean out the engine and score the piston and cylinder
3. Many of the newer pro saws in the 50cc+ sized engines have auto-tune(Husqvarna)/ M-Tronic(Stihl) carburetors/fuel metering devices. You do not want a saw with these automatic/electronic systems, they do not work well at elevations and changing elevations, as they many times will not start back when hot at the end of a tank of fuel. There are still many new pro saws that have the good/old standard adjustable carburetors.
4. if you leave a gas saw inside of a truck or vehicle, you will likely smell fuel, as the chainsaw's fuel tank has an air-vent that will allow some fuel vapor release, especially if the saw is left in a hot environment with fuel in the tank. Another reason to drain out the tank after use.
5. Can be tough to start if poorly maintained or incorrect starting technique is used, easily flooded and won't restart without removing and drying the spark plug, and sometimes requiring replacement of the spark plug, so you should carry a spare.
6. Noise. Even the quietest gas saw is relatively loud.
BATTERY SAW-
Pros-
1. Torquey for the size and weight of the saw
2. no fuel smell if kept in a closed box or vehicle
3. quiet
4. No issue with hard starting like 2 strokes can exhibit
Cons -
1. Will you always have the battery charged when you need to use the saw? If you leave the battery charged all the time you will reduce the amount of power it will put out, and how long. Also, what if you aren't done cutting when the battery runs down? You will have to charge it to resume cutting. This isn't a possibility if you are way up in the mountains, at a campsite with no way to charge the battery, or no time to wait to charge the battery.
2. A replacement battery for the higher quality brand saws is very expensive, 50% or more of the cost of the new saw is not uncommon
3. Technology is ever-improving, and the buyers/owners of electric saws will fall victim to saw parts not being replaceable, or serviceable, batteries will die over time with lack-of-use and/or over-use.
4. Battery technology will improve, battery shapes will change and connectors will change, phasing out older battery saws in 5 to 10 years the way the technology changes things.
5. non-adjustable bar oilers on electric saws will not output enough bar oil in some hardwoods and can cause overheated bars and chains and increased bar wear requiring more frequent bar replacement
6. Users tend to forget to fill the bar-oiler tank on electric saws, and they ruin far more chains and bars than gas saws
7. Most electric saws use small "mini-pico" chains that don't cut much of a chunk of wood, almost more smaller chunks/sawdust cuttings
I can go on-and-on with this subject, so if anyone wants to hear more of my $.02, just ask.
I can tell you how to test a used saw to make sure it doesn't have any issues as well, if someone wants to know....
Inukshuk
Rising Sun Member
I was at a campsite this weekend with tons of down timber started thinking saws again. 
Someone had left a few cut rounds that split nicely for the fire. I left a stack of split wood for the next visitor.
(I do want a better Axe...)
I re-read this thread. Thank you for all the great comments.
Been thinking to get a Milwaukee Fuel impact and so it would make sense to look at the Milwaukee saws.
Than I add it up and think, I don't really need them. 
Someone had left a few cut rounds that split nicely for the fire. I left a stack of split wood for the next visitor.
(I do want a better Axe...)I re-read this thread.
Thank you for all the great comments.Been thinking to get a Milwaukee Fuel impact and so it would make sense to look at the Milwaukee saws.
Than I add it up and think, I don't really need them.
nuclearlemon
Hard Core 4+
missed this thread when it first came up. i would love to have a stihl, but as mentioned they are pricey. but they are a lifetime purchase. kind of like our toyotas...built to last and rebuild if something fails. i bought a cheap poulin (keep on poulin) and it served it's purpose to down a bunch of sumac uproots when i bought the commerce city house and a couple of trail cleanups, but now it's ready to just throw away. i feel i got my $130 bucks out of it. if i didn't have to cut a lot right off the bat, i couldn't say that. i ran it dry every summer and ran ethanol free when i could with oil mixed in and regularly cleaned and oiled it. let it sit for a decade, now it won't start, so i didn't even drain the fuel i put it, i just parked it in the rafters and it's still sitting there. if the renter steals it, i don't care. since then, i really haven't had a need, but if i was opening trails i'd think about something else
battery power interests me a lot. technology is improving greatly (remember when an impact couldn't take a tire off? now no problem) and i love the idea of batteries that can be swapped between a saw and your impact/drill/whatever else. easy to sell the idea of extra batteries when you can rotate them between stuff. after years of fighting to get a gas weed wacker fired up every spring after sitting, i went electric and won't ever go back. would be great to say the same about a chainsaw.
if you haven't found a need for one extensively in the past, i would just put a search on craigslist for a lifetime saw (stihl for me since i have experience with husquavarna motorcycles and they were great after you spent a half hour kicking them over to get them running ) and if a deal pops up, buy it. until then, you can most likely live without and borrow or rent the few times you need
battery power interests me a lot. technology is improving greatly (remember when an impact couldn't take a tire off? now no problem) and i love the idea of batteries that can be swapped between a saw and your impact/drill/whatever else. easy to sell the idea of extra batteries when you can rotate them between stuff. after years of fighting to get a gas weed wacker fired up every spring after sitting, i went electric and won't ever go back. would be great to say the same about a chainsaw.
if you haven't found a need for one extensively in the past, i would just put a search on craigslist for a lifetime saw (stihl for me since i have experience with husquavarna motorcycles and they were great after you spent a half hour kicking them over to get them running
) and if a deal pops up, buy it. until then, you can most likely live without and borrow or rent the few times you need
LARGEONE
Rising Sun Member
I have a 20" echo and absolutely love it. No problems so far and it has taken down plenty of trees already.
I just got an ms261cm and spent a day makin firewood with it. Great saw for 10-14” pine at altitude.
I spent 1.5 months trying to find one used. Found it used for more than msrp. Found a couple of OK deals, they went fast. Then got stood up trying to buy one.
I had a good conversation with Jake, then went to Jax Broomfield and picked one up. The salesman was super knowledgeable and spent 30-40min explaining everything about the saw from starting to replacing and touching up the chain etc.
Planning to buy a new mower from them next week.
About 2/3’s through splitting the 1.5 cords of wood we cut up a couple weekends ago.
I spent 1.5 months trying to find one used. Found it used for more than msrp. Found a couple of OK deals, they went fast. Then got stood up trying to buy one.
I had a good conversation with Jake, then went to Jax Broomfield and picked one up. The salesman was super knowledgeable and spent 30-40min explaining everything about the saw from starting to replacing and touching up the chain etc.
Planning to buy a new mower from them next week.
About 2/3’s through splitting the 1.5 cords of wood we cut up a couple weekends ago.
I’ve got saws. All Stihl. MSA200CBQ through MS660.
the MSA200CBQ (battery powered) is hands down the most versatile saw I own. I’ve got four batteries, and that keeps me cutting all day.
I don’t know when it will be possible, but you are welcome to come put hands on my MSA200CBQ. Bucking firewood, carving, trimming branches—it’s definitely the best IMHO. The batteries and the charger are the expensive parts though, for sure.
Dan
the MSA200CBQ (battery powered) is hands down the most versatile saw I own. I’ve got four batteries, and that keeps me cutting all day.
I don’t know when it will be possible, but you are welcome to come put hands on my MSA200CBQ. Bucking firewood, carving, trimming branches—it’s definitely the best IMHO. The batteries and the charger are the expensive parts though, for sure.
Dan
Inukshuk
Rising Sun Member
Rumor is that visiting your property is the trendy thing to do these days. Holler. I work hard.
MDH33
Hard Core 4+
No way man. Doing it by hand is the best. I still carry an axe and a crosscut in my truck. No stinky bar oil or gas required. Nor a battery charger.
gr8fulabe
Rising Sun Member
That saw kicks all the ass! What’s its length & do you have a handle for the other side, or is it just a single? I’d like to have a couple of those, but just not sure how to know what I need.No way man. Doing it by hand is the best. I still carry an axe and a crosscut in my truck. No stinky bar oil or gas required. Nor a battery charger.
DouglasVB
Rising Sun Member
Oh that's a beautiful saw!!! Do you know the heritage behind it? Been in the family a long time?
MDH33
Hard Core 4+
Thanks, that saw is a 5.5 foot Simonds lance tooth saw, probably from the early 1900's. I have both western handles and loop handles that can work on it. I have probably 25-30 one and two man crosscuts. I used to use them on trail when I worked for the USFS and began collecting them. I learned how to properly tune and sharpen them and used to work on saws in the off season for the USFS and NPS. Good times!
One of the great things about a crosscut is that you can buck up downed logs in a much wider range of diameter with the same tool, and if tuned properly, they're actually fast and fun to use. Bucking a huge tree with a chainsaw if the bar was too short can be sketchy, but 3'+ diameter log would be no trouble for a 5' crosscut.
Didn't mean to hijack the thread: Back to chain saws, I have both Stihl and Husqvarna saws and like them both. I have a Husqvarna 543xp that is probably my favorite. Cheap, super torquey, cuts like a much bigger saw and super dependable. I think the newer equivalent is the 545 markII.
One of the great things about a crosscut is that you can buck up downed logs in a much wider range of diameter with the same tool, and if tuned properly, they're actually fast and fun to use. Bucking a huge tree with a chainsaw if the bar was too short can be sketchy, but 3'+ diameter log would be no trouble for a 5' crosscut.
Didn't mean to hijack the thread: Back to chain saws, I have both Stihl and Husqvarna saws and like them both. I have a Husqvarna 543xp that is probably my favorite. Cheap, super torquey, cuts like a much bigger saw and super dependable. I think the newer equivalent is the 545 markII.
Inukshuk
Rising Sun Member
I have more time with a crosscut handsaw than chainsaws. As a kid at our property in upstate NY all wood was cut by hand.
I bought a new axe yesterday. Retail Therapy at the Ace Hardware in Bailey. My old cheap axe on the roof rack was never really any good for chopping. The lady at the register said - "why don't you buy a chainsaw"
I bought a new axe yesterday. Retail Therapy at the Ace Hardware in Bailey. My old cheap axe on the roof rack was never really any good for chopping. The lady at the register said - "why don't you buy a chainsaw"