2025 4Runner launch

[Jcbmx]

I think it looks like a 4th gen with a body kit

 

[stusic]

Can anyone confirm the GVWR of the new 4Runner is only 895lbs.? 4 180lb guys, a cooler of beer, and a dog: over gvwr. Seems like it'd be hard to add all the overlanding stuff like RTT, etc.

Additionally, anyone know the GVWR of the 250?

 

[cruiseroutfit]

They're being built in Japan, confirmed by toyota. No idea what plant.

Tahara.








I think the new 4Runner is neat, I had a hard time finding something to dislike outside of the overall size. Undoubtedly more similar than ever to the LC250 and GX550 and there will be overlap on pricing. Toyota intended the mid-size to be about options.

LC250 - all w/rear locker, all with IFM/Hybrid, all Full-Time, 8.2” rear diff. Stabilizer disconnect on some grades.

4Runner - opt rear locker, optional IFM/Hybrid/, part-time and full-time option, 8.2” and 9.5” axle depending on model. Stabilizer disconnect on some grades

GX, it’s really about the OT+ for me w/rear locker, V6TT, all Full-Time, 9.5” rear diff, EKDSS

 

[Doughboy]

Tahara.








I think the new 4Runner is neat, I had a hard time finding something to dislike outside of the overall size. Undoubtedly more similar than ever to the LC250 and GX550 and there will be overlap on pricing. Toyota intended the mid-size to be about options.

LC250 - all w/rear locker, all with IFM/Hybrid, all Full-Time, 8.2” rear diff. Stabilizer disconnect on some grades.

4Runner - opt rear locker, optional IFM/Hybrid/, part-time and full-time option, 8.2” and 9.5” axle depending on model. Stabilizer disconnect on some grades

GX, it’s really about the OT+ for me w/rear locker, V6TT, all Full-Time, 9.5” rear diff, EKDSS

Thanks for the info GOAT

 

[Corbet]

@cruiseroutfit

Kurt, did you mis-type 8.2” diff on the LC-250 above? I thought all the hybrid trucks Tacoma/250/4R were getting the 9.5” axle to handle the power.

 

[White Stripe]

Personally I still think toyota is playing it too conservative/safe in design. Still no removable top??? In either the 4runner or the land cruiser???? Even though both Ford and jeep have removable tops?????? Instead of the 250 land cruiser thing which is a 4runner with round headlights they should have the 70 series. Not that I don't like the new 4runner at all, but Toyota as usual is playing it too conservative in the design.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Personally I still think toyota is playing it too conservative/safe in design. Still no removable top??? In either the 4runner or the land cruiser???? Even though both Ford and jeep have removable tops?????? Instead of the 250 land cruiser thing which is a 4runner with round headlights they should have the 70 series. Not that I don't like the new 4runner at all, but Toyota as usual is playing it too conservative in the design.

Seems like the opportunity for that was the FJ Cruiser. I don't know why Toyota isn't interested in 2 door SUVs and removable tops but they've always been conservative so I'd suspect they're staying out of that market for a reason.

It's probably just that the number of people who would jump ship from Jeep and now Ford to actually put their money down for one is small and would diminish quickly in a couple of years. They probably underestimated the demand when they did the FJC in hindsight, though.

Same with the 70 series. Enthusiasts beg and plead but Toyota knows (1) that even within our circles the actual number is small and (b) they'd get skewered by U.S. auto journalists since the 70 series still looks and feels like a 1980s Toyota. No big screen TV in the dash? Vinyl seats and floors?

The only people who'd seriously consider a 70 series in enough numbers are construction companies and that market is well served by the Big 3. Even in markets that do get the 70 series it's not a mass marketed vehicle. The bread and butter are mining companies, farmers, the U.N., rag tag military and a handful of people who want to make it across the Simpson Desert. If you're not beating the crap out of your truck daily you're more likely to buy a Hilux or Prado or 300 series. Look at the Tundra for examples domestically. They sell a fraction of them compared to GM, Ford and Ram and the ones they do sell are double cab, leather, powerful behemoths to tow boats and campers. Everything the 70 series isn't.

The U.S. special operations and indeed mines who might want a 70 series can get them if they want so the real, actual money-on-the-table buyers who will walk into a showtoom to buy a 70 series that is legally registered, EPA and DOT OK'd is surely in the few dozen and the majority of them are happy bringing in 25+ year old ones.

 

[Johnny Utah]

@DaveInDenver you're pretty right on. It’s always a case of wanting what we can’t have.
I’ve dreamed of having a 70 series for years, but the reality is that I would rather have a 70 series body on top of an 80 series chassis. The 70 series are heavy duty and don’t ride that well.
I’ve always been frustrated that Toyota wouldn’t bring them to the US market, but I bet if they did, sales numbers wouldn’t be good.

Back to the topic of 4Runners. I like the new one and think it resembles the 4th generation 4Runners. I am in the minority and really like the 4th gen (we used to own one), so this new one seems okay to me right away. I can’t say the same about the new Tacoma. I really want to like it, but I think it’s just kind of ugly. Hopefully it’ll grow on me like the tundra did.

 

[Rzeppa]

The 70 series are heavy duty and don’t ride that well.

My HZJ75 had 1 ton+ suspension. Like my FJ45, when it was empty, you could feel every pebble and crack in the pavement. Drop a ton of gravel or rip rap into the bed and it smooths right out.

 

[DaveInDenver]

@Johnny Utah, we liked our 4th gen, too. The exterior of this one looks fine. It's the inside that really loses me. I don't need all the tech and distractions and would like a bigger back seat for adults. It could just be a trick of the eye and fading memory but I seem to remember the back seats in our 2005 weren't that cramped, not the worst place to be for a couple of hours in ski traffic and stuff.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

@cruiseroutfit

Kurt, did you mis-type 8.2” diff on the LC-250 above? I thought all the hybrid trucks Tacoma/250/4R were getting the 9.5” axle to handle the power.

Not a typo. The full-time 4WD Cruisers and the 4runner we’ve seen, have the 8.2”

 

[DenverFJ62]

I can't keep up with these new Toyotas anymore. All look about the same to me.

Just give me a 300 and quit messing around.

If you have the coin, stroll on over to your nearest Lexus dealer 🤷‍♂️

 

[Corbet]

Not a typo. The full-time 4WD Cruisers and the 4runner we’ve seen, have the 8.2”

That’s a bummer IMHO. Strange new world we live in when the 4R is essentially the same thing as a LC. (In USA). I still like the LC styling better. But it definitely seems Toyota is targeting the 4R as their top tier off-roader. Larger diff would be nice for those who build them up. Not my intention so probably fine.

 

[White Stripe]

Seems like the opportunity for that was the FJ Cruiser. I don't know why Toyota isn't interested in 2 door SUVs and removable tops but they've always been conservative so I'd suspect they're staying out of that market for a reason.

It's probably just that the number of people who would jump ship from Jeep and now Ford to actually put their money down for one is small and would diminish quickly in a couple of years. They probably underestimated the demand when they did the FJC in hindsight, though.

Same with the 70 series. Enthusiasts beg and plead but Toyota knows (1) that even within our circles the actual number is small and (b) they'd get skewered by U.S. auto journalists since the 70 series still looks and feels like a 1980s Toyota. No big screen TV in the dash? Vinyl seats and floors?

The only people who'd seriously consider a 70 series in enough numbers are construction companies and that market is well served by the Big 3. Even in markets that do get the 70 series it's not a mass marketed vehicle. The bread and butter are mining companies, farmers, the U.N., rag tag military and a handful of people who want to make it across the Simpson Desert. If you're not beating the crap out of your truck daily you're more likely to buy a Hilux or Prado or 300 series. Look at the Tundra for examples domestically. They sell a fraction of them compared to GM, Ford and Ram and the ones they do sell are double cab, leather, powerful behemoths to tow boats and campers. Everything the 70 series isn't.

The U.S. special operations and indeed mines who might want a 70 series can get them if they want so the real, actual money-on-the-table buyers who will walk into a showtoom to buy a 70 series that is legally registered, EPA and DOT OK'd is surely in the few dozen and the majority of them are happy bringing in 25+ year old ones.

I disagree personally. I think if toyota softened the suspension/springs and blinged out the interior a bit for a American 70 series that it would sell great. Very simple to do. The g-wagon has a old body and still and sells well. The way a built 70 series looks, it would really give bronco and wrangler competition.

 

[DaveInDenver]

I disagree personally. I think if toyota softened the suspension/springs and blinged out the interior a bit for a American 70 series that it would sell great. Very simple to do. The g-wagon has a old body and still and sells well. The way a built 70 series looks, it would really give bronco and wrangler competition.View attachment 128989

I get where you're coming from on the G-wagen. Mercedes has a range of SUVs so can't really say a blinged G-class takes serious sales away from the others. I imagine Toyota would think "If you want an upscale Land Cruiser buy the 300 or LX" to your argument. Where the G-class and 70 series compete it's for work trucks, not bling.

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I just think it still boils down to it being a small niche of buyers and isn't worth the headache.

 

[LARGEONE]

I also disagree on the competing with Ford and J&&p. If Toyota had brought back a “modern 40” with SFA I think it would steal 30% of the wrangler market easily. Eventually probably half if they did it right. A Toyota with a removable top would sell very well in my opinion and if it wheels well, would sell even more. (Ie lockers)

I know I would buy the 4-door version of it. SFA, lockers, soft top. Count me in! (Along w 100,000 others )

I believe Toyota absolutely missed the boat w the FJ Cruiser by not doing the above.

As for the new 4 Runner. I really like the look of it…I had a 4th gen so it reminds me of that one. However, I think I would have to go for the GX550 or LC for the same reason I got rid of the 4Runner (and got GX470)….headroom Ind interior space. My head touched the ceiling on the 4Runner!!! If you are over 6-1” the 4Runner is tight at the head. The 5th gen’s are better but still tough to see under the rear view mirror to the right side of the road.

 

[DaveInDenver]

I also disagree on the competing with Ford and J&&p. If Toyota had brought back a “modern 40” with SFA I think it would steal 30% of the wrangler market easily. Eventually probably half if they did it right. A Toyota with a removable top would sell very well in my opinion and if it wheels well, would sell even more. (Ie lockers)

I know I would buy the 4-door version of it. SFA, lockers, soft top. Count me in! (Along w 100,000 others )

I believe Toyota absolutely missed the boat w the FJ Cruiser by not doing the above.

Perhaps you're right. I think Toyota has done the market research. They're willing it seems, at least in the U.S., to micro divide options to a confusing number of configurations. So I'm sure if they thought they could sell them they would.

So I'd counter by saying that of the vehicles like Wrangler and now Bronco that do have removable and/or soft tops as an option I wonder how many actually get converted or sold that way. I mean look even at FJ40s, how often do you guys that own them take the hard top off? I see a lot of 4 door Wranglers with hard tops that clearly never come off. I hardly ever see 2 door soft top Wranglers anymore.

Using your logic not your emotion here. I'd like the option for a SFA truck but truth is when I got my 1991 (and now with the 2008) I wasn't sorry and driving the 1985 XtraCab there's no way I'd pony up for one as my only truck. The only time IFS sucks is technical rocks. On the highway, regular dirt roads, etc. it blows away a solid axle for handling and comfort. Gotta remember that 99.9% of their buyers aren't people with multiple Toyota trucks but just one they're using for a lot of stuff. It's a tool to most people.

So can you honestly say that if you had to only own one Toyota what would it be? Zepp is talking about selling his whole fleet for one 250 series. Romer sold a sweet 40 for a new Tacoma. Jim daily driving an FJ60 is a real thing. Dean kept 3 old trucks and even he was kicking around the idea of simplifying down to a new Tacoma. You run out of effort to keep 'em going and the ride of a modern vehicle is compelling.

Like I say, when you put real numbers on it the market is what it is. Your fellow Americans mostly want to drive soft riding arcades on wheels not the spartan trucks we love. Heck, they stopped selling regular cab Tacomas 10 years ago and even now barely sell Access Cabs. It's mostly Double Cabs V6 SR5 or higher spec with 5' beds to retail. The poverty spec trucks go to Orkin fleets.

 

[LARGEONE]

Great points, Dave, as always!

But J&&p and Ford are still selling a shit-ton of removable top vehicles and Toyota doesn’t even have an entry in the game.

If they did…4Runner would likely not be their entry vehicle. So back to Runner discussions

 

[gungriffin]

Both the front and rear bumpers look hard to replace with anything aftermarket.

The GX 550 with a flat rear floor and turbo v6 (assuming that engine holds up) seems obvious to me, but I won't be buying any of these new...

I am feeling more like this is the answer. There really isn't a huge fuel mileage penalty with the V6. It will be interesting to see where pricing lands on the 4R when that is revealed.

 

[gungriffin]

Does anyone know if there are any plans to offer a plug in hybrid version of this power train? In addition to a removable top, I feel like what is missing is a competitor to the Jeep 4xe.