Vintage MTB Drop Bar - Save me from myself...

[Corbet]

This is probably just boredom talking but I find myself thinking I need to build a vintage MTB dropbar. Think gravel bike on classic rigid 26" MTB. Anyone go down this path? My thoughts lean towards a late 80's full rigid steel frame/fork. Something kind of unique or special in my heart from that time when I first started working in a bike shop. I've got plenty of 26" wheels laying around. Choosing between a vintage drivetrain or something more modern would probably be the hardest decision. I'm trying to visualize what I've got laying around. There should be some old school S-Works cranks somewhere. I had a set of Cooks Bros on my old townie but I actually broke one arm a while back Believe I've got some original series Shimano Deore brakes (NOS condition) Plenty of quilled stems. Some old Mavic hubs but that would force me into a 7 speed freewheel. (I have plenty of those) And some Sach Quartz 8sp drivetrain stuff. I'm sure there is more kicking around the attic. Campy road stuff.

Colnago MTB build I found online. That appears to have some vintage Mavic drivetrain goodies



Another cool looking build. I don't recognize the frame set.

 

[Corbet]

A little small for me but that frame is sexy.

Vintage Serotta Colorado ATX Mountain Bike Frame 48L Early 1990s Super Clean See | eBay

It is clearly a 9+/10. This is a well preserved example of a super high end mtb from the infancy of mountain bike popularity. Head tube 10 cm. Seat tube (CTC) 48 cm. 1” steerer tube.

www.ebay.com

 

[DaveInDenver]

The cool aqua fade frame is a Shogun. They would put the model on the downtube and if I was to further guess it's a Ground Breaker or maybe a Prairie Breaker, around 1990 or so. There was a period where they did triple triangles like GT but I don't know if the trad style dates before or after those.

This is what I do for a quasi-drop bar gravel/tourer/whatever. I'm no stickler for vintage or authentic, just collection of parts. It's a modern(ish) 2012 but with the throwback geometry (71°/73° suspension-corrected straight outta NORBA, 1-1/8" HS, etc) adapted for 29'er in the English panels paint job Gunnar was doing special that year.

I put my sorta vintage Rhygin frame into service for her commuter, so no photos handy. It's not drop bar. It's single speed.

 

[Corbet]

Some other interesting frames.





Kind of partial to these as I was working in a Schwinn/Trek/DiamondBack dealer when this came out. I ended up with a Trek 990 at the time. Would just need to figure out shifters with that sweet vintage XC-Pro.

Pardon Our Interruption...

 

[DaveInDenver]

Get the Fat Chance, achieve cycling nirvana like @wesintl.

Of course you can not go wrong with a Race Lite or Paramount PDG.

So many neat frames back then. We were trying stuff and nothing was really off limits. Not everything worked but that's OK.

One frame I'd love to have around is a pre-Trek Race Lite, though when I jump back on a 26" they just feel so small.

 

[Cruisertrash]

@Corbet I'm 100% behind this.

Jacqui Phelan circa late 80s? A great racer, married to Charlie Cunningham who built frames. She's rocking bar end shifters too.


No shame in 7spd, all my bikes are either 3x7 or 2x7. Run 1x if you want to, but 3x7 still works great and where you're going on this bike I don't think you'll need the "competitive advantage" of a 1x system. Embrace the frame spacing and let it dictate your drivetrain. Plus there's about a zillion really great 3x7 drivetrain parts out there for dirt cheap. For example, I run early 80s Deerhead derailluers in friction mode on one of my bikes, and they're probably the best shifting ones I have on a bike. They just snap into gear no problem and the drivetrain doesn't complain about the RD being slightly off ... like my finicky Nuovo Record stuff does on another bike.

What Campy road parts do you have laying around by the way?

 

[Cruisertrash]

Another note...

There are a ton of great 26" tire choices out there these days from Maxxis to Rene Herse, Ultradynamico, Continental. If you want to go super vintage there's a new company on the front range making accurate 80s style ATB tires: https://www.houseoflooptail.com/. I keep wanting to pick up a set but don't currently have a bike for them to go on, although I'm sure I could solve that problem.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Tomac raced most of the 1990 season on a drop bar Yeti. The reason was that he had joined 7-11 and was doing road racing in Europe so it was familiarity.

In 1991 he went to Raleigh/Motorola. He was never that successful at road racing so 1991 was his last year and with it drop bars on MTBs. He went back to flat bars after a couple of races. Some of this was courses started getting more technical.

I think it goes mostly to prove a stud is gonna be a stud no matter what bike you put him or her on. I mean, doing 60 MPH on Big Bear spinning a dinner plate front ring with a 2" elastomer fork is off the charts. I have too much self preservation instinct to ever be more than an also-ran.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Another interesting tidbit that what's old is new again. You old timers may remember that the 1987 MB1 came stock with drop bars.

 

[Cruisertrash]

Yes, Tomac as well. But like most things Phelan did, she was among the first. All of that was happening when I was in elementary school but I've gone back and dug into it over the years.

Bikes like the MB-1 with drops (and the XO-1 with mustache bars) are why Grant Peterson got fired from Bridgestone. His designs were too outside the box at the time. Fortunately he gave us Rivendell ... which I'll never be able to afford, but are nice to look at nonetheless.

 

[wesintl]

I guess I'm a bit more pragmatic than than i give myself credit for, I would not build one or ride one. The old stuff is just not that comfortable. If you had all the parts and it was just putting it together sure. A townie sure, Is this just a build wall hanger or really for riding? What kind of riding? Actual gravel with distance you won't be happy or comfortable with a 26 and smaller side mtb frame. MTB trails you'll ride your MTB. Closed course cross it would be good. If you want a gravel bike there is plenty of good used ones these days. If you do this I'd recommend a frame size up. Look at how tiny that bike is tomac is on.. LOL.

I've ridden unbound on a mtb and gravel bike and it was so much better on a larger gravel style frame.

I don't know where i'm going with this... I love old stuff but i don't ride anything vintage except to the mail box.

 

[DaveInDenver]

I'd have thought it would be guarded love for Jacquie since her WTB bike (she named it Otto) was a welded straight gauge aluminum frame. Very against the grain, non-Zen, from the mythical perfection of lugged steel.

Bontrager, too, did TIG welded steel with tons of gussets and he got plenty of grief about that. I respected (still do respect) the heck out of him, he has a degree in physics from UC Santa Cruz. His non-traditional ideas were not random, he brought data.

I used to ride a straight gauge aluminum bike, a 1994 GT Zaskar. No way I would ever want to go back to it. Ten years of development from her 1983 didn't make it any more comfortable.

Jacquie's limp dick stem was an obvious deviation from the standard flat back, negative rise of the time. But I'm not sure it that would help or hurt the spine jarring ride it must have had. Still, a uber cool frame and she was unstoppable.

Vintage Bicycles: #29 Cunningham – A 1983 Tribute to Jacquie Phelan’s “Otto” Bike – john watson

"Gravel bikes are just XC bikes from the 80s/90s with drop bars." You hear that over and over again, ad infinitum on the internet. While that might be true to some degree, I think this statement does XC bikes from the 80s/90s a disservice. Back when the big companies were slow to pivot towards...

theradavist.com

 

[wesintl]

Iykyk

 

[Corbet]

That Fat Chance frame I posted is on EBay and it’s way too small for me. I need at least a 20” from or the seat post will we way up there. That’s OK if I’m riding the hoods but won’t be if I’m in the drops.

Where would ai ride this thing, I don’t know. Short single track rides for fun? I’ve got a bunch of parts but would need to find the right frame.

Do I need this. Hell no. I’ve got a road bike, cyclocross bike, MTB, BMX, Townie, Tandem.

I saw one posted online and looked like a fun novelty. There’s an old Gary Fisher Pro Caliber on EBay currently that would be cool except for pressed in BB that was dumb then and still dumb now. If it were not for that I’d consider jumping on it.

Vintage 80s Gary Fisher Procaliber Frameset Tange prestige mountain bike | eBay

Tange, prestige, steel. Tange forks.

www.ebay.com

 

[DaveInDenver]

Where would ai ride this thing, I don’t know.

Perhaps the 26" retro one you're thinking is a bit specific but not terribly so. Just for me a 29'er fit is more comfortable and I would miss disc brakes. Comfortable steel frame with clearance to use around a 29"x2.1" or 700c/50 is a sweet spot.

The drop bar MTB, monster 'cross, gravel, technical touring, whatever it's called it's pretty alright at everything. I bet you ride the heck out of it.

I saw one posted online and looked like a fun novelty. There’s an old Gary Fisher Pro Caliber on EBay currently that would be cool except for pressed in BB that was dumb then and still dumb now. If it were not for that I’d consider jumping on it.

In the history of mankind there has never been a bottom bracket solution that works perfectly. If it's not chewing up tiny bearings, then it's rust or cross threaded or someone flipped the cups.

The benefit pressed in BB are chasing is how to fit a larger bearing that lasts a whole season and to that extent it does solve this. The external bearings kind of stunted the need but that also required a mind shift from 3x cranks to keep the Q factor comfortable. Internal threaded BBs are one thing I have no love, not everything old was better.

One of life's grand mysteries is how the left hand threading must end up on the right hand side of things to work. But that's another BB thing, sometimes they get a mark LH indicating the left hand threading, sometimes they get a mark LH meaning left hand side installation.

It just guarantees your BB thread taps will always be valuable.

 

[Cruisertrash]

@Corbet I’m going to disagree with Wes and encourage you. Riding an old bike is still viable. In fact I think the fun:dollars ratio is super high and one of the best value propositions in bikes right now. And fun is all we’re after, right?



I built both of these bikes this year, and Karen & I have ripped around on lots of gravel & singletrack. Are we doing the most technical terrain? Absolutely not, and that makes for a good excuse to own another more modern bike. Are we having heaps of fun? Absolutely yes. Every time we’re out, spandex-clad dudes on high dollar long travel modern mountain bikes always stop and tell us how cool our whips are. Follow your dreams, even if they seem kind of stupid.


Hers: Look at how SLACK the geometry is!


Mine: Yes, 50.4bcd TA Cyclotourist cranks. Super wide chainring spread. Took lots of fussing with the RD to shift with a 52-48-22 crankset and 14-32 freewheel but it does it!

Both got new freewheels, chains, bottom brackets, Nitto stems, bars, cables & housing, tires, and the hubs, derailleurs, & brakes rebuilt. For under about $350-400 each, they’ve brought us LOTS of fun.

 

[Cruisertrash]

Perhaps the 26" retro one you're thinking is a bit specific but not terribly so. Just for me a 29'er fit is more comfortable and I would miss disc brakes. Comfortable steel frame with clearance to use around a 29"x2.1" or 700c/50 is a sweet spot.

The drop bar MTB, monster 'cross, gravel, technical touring, whatever it's called it's pretty alright at everything. I bet you ride the heck out of it.

In the history of mankind there has never been a bottom bracket solution that works perfectly. If it's not chewing up tiny bearings, then it's rust or cross threaded or someone flipped the cups.

The benefit pressed in BB are chasing is how to fit a larger bearing that lasts a whole season and to that extent it does solve this. The external bearings kind of stunted the need but that also required a mind shift from 3x cranks to keep the Q factor comfortable. Internal threaded BBs are one thing I have no love, not everything old was better.

One of life's grand mysteries is how the left hand threading must end up on the right hand side of things to work. But that's another BB thing, sometimes they get a mark LH indicating the left hand threading, sometimes they get a mark LH meaning left hand side installation.

It just guarantees your BB thread taps will always be valuable.

Very decent sealed bearing 68/73mm English/French/Italian/Swiss threaded BBs can be had all over for like $40 these days. If that’s yearly maintenance I’m cool with that. For $100+ you get loose bearing rebuildable cup & cone threaded BBs in any any flavor you like, too.

I like 26 with big meats as I feel like they have more low end torque to grunt over obstacles. It theoretically shouldn’t matter because modern 29ers can have super low gearing in the cassette and chainring, but … I dunno, I still feel like the 26 can just get the job done really well in those low gearing, low speed, grunt situations. I wonder if it’s a “tangental angle of approach” thing. The 29er stuff does seem to carry momentum better though, and to me that equates to the feeling of just pounding over rocks - like the tires just eat them up more readily.

I’ve had the thought of taking an old 80s or early 90s MTB frame and converting to 650B (aka 27.5). You’d lose some tire width, but gain circumference, and of course you’d have to reconfigure the brakes. I guess the trade off would be highly dependent on the frame.

 

[DaveInDenver]

@Cruisertrash, yeah, different strokes for different folks. I went through the progression when these bikes were new. I've arrived at this point solving problems. It wasn't a lack of experiencing them.

I started on a 1983 Univega 10-speed that I had until high school, when I had finally really outgrown it (truth told it got ignored most of high school when I got a car).

I got a 1989 Schwinn High Plains, a lugged steel, 3x7 Biopace 200 GS wonder when I started in college and started working in a shop. After that it was a steady stream of the latest and greatest Giant, GT, Rhygin, Santa Cruz (lots of purple anodizing, some blue, and lots of Pedal Pusher orders, canti, U-brakes, V-brakes) until around 2006. I really found my stoke when I got the Redline Monocog. That's when the 29'er singlespeed hardtail light bulb went off. Other than a short gap in 2012-2013 when I tried to make the Gunnar work as my primary bike (it's too light for primary MTB duty in Colorado, I would have broken it like I did the Rhygin) it's been singlespeed 29 for 20 years now.

The Redline is still in my mainly townie quiver since it's a rigid fork, V-brake 4130 tank. Impossible to break but I'm still heeling from the dislocated shoulder and cracked ribs this year. That's just too much punishment for my fat, candy ass at the moment.

Incidentially, riding singlespeed is not a small reason I'm so hard on BBs. Especially when I was running a belt drive on the REEB. In that case I'd get wobbly bearings in 6 months from the high tension the belt requires. Now back to a chain I get about a season if I'm lucky with external bearings (yup, I just do a $40 Enduro bearing kit). I could run maybe a little more slack but I love singlespeed for the lack of chain slapping. It's a minor irritation to me. One speed is also why I have no great love for drops. I raced singlespeed CX on them (until I got a frame with a hanger) for a while but I just don't get the leverage.

 

[Corbet]

I’ve never been hard on bottom brackets despite my size. In the loose ball days I serviced them regularly. Maybe I keep my cadence higher than most? I did have one threaded unit seize into the frame but didn’t find that surprised until I broke the frames top tube and was stripping it down. My BMX has external bearings, so far so good. The only BB I can say was always loose was from a Bullseye crankset. I did pull that out after a few months. It was poorly designed with tiny ball bearings, terrible dust seals and no good way to apply any lateral tension on them. Wish I still had them, they are worth a fortune now.

 

[Cruisertrash]

@Cruisertrash, yeah, different strokes for different folks. I went through the progression when these bikes were new. I've arrived at this point solving problems. It wasn't a lack of experiencing them.

I started on a 1983 Univega 10-speed that I had until high school, when I had finally really outgrown it (truth told it got ignored most of high school when I got a car).

I got a 1989 Schwinn High Plains, a lugged steel, 3x7 Biopace 200 GS wonder when I started in college and started working in a shop. After that it was a steady stream of the latest and greatest Giant, GT, Rhygin, Santa Cruz (lots of purple anodizing, some blue, and lots of Pedal Pusher orders, canti, U-brakes, V-brakes) until around 2006. I really found my stoke when I got the Redline Monocog. That's when the 29'er singlespeed hardtail light bulb went off. Other than a short gap in 2012-2013 when I tried to make the Gunnar work as my primary bike (it's too light for primary MTB duty in Colorado, I would have broken it like I did the Rhygin) it's been singlespeed 29 for 20 years now.

The Redline is still in my mainly townie quiver since it's a rigid fork, V-brake 4130 tank. Impossible to break but I'm still heeling from the dislocated shoulder and cracked ribs this year. That's just too much punishment for my fat, candy ass at the moment.

Incidentially, riding singlespeed is not a small reason I'm so hard on BBs. Especially when I was running a belt drive on the REEB. In that case I'd get wobbly bearings in 6 months from the high tension the belt requires. Now back to a chain I get about a season if I'm lucky with external bearings (yup, I just do a $40 Enduro bearing kit). I could run maybe a little more slack but I love singlespeed for the lack of chain slapping. It's a minor irritation to me. One speed is also why I have no great love for drops. I raced singlespeed CX on them (until I got a frame with a hanger) for a while but I just don't get the leverage.

Don't get me wrong, I've had a rigid 29er. It was a Surly Ogre I bought brand new. I understand the benefits of the bigger wheels. I guess you're right, it boils down to preference.

@Corbet keep us updated on what direction you go.