Ghost Town Run Re-revisited. July 25-26
- Thread starter bh4rnnr
- Start date
Squishy!
Rising Sun Member
I'd be more than happy to lead a second group, though I'm not nearly as knowledgable about the history of the area. I know the passes well though.
Will keep you posted!
Send me a pm.
Thanks for the offer Justin!! I think its best keeping everyone together. The flow, memeorys and history lessons etc. Nathaniel and I are getting together soon, we will brainstorm some ideas and get back to ya.
All, this really means a lot to me to see so much interest in this run. By cutting it off, I didn't mean anything to those that want to go but now, are maybe not able. I feel really flattered!!!
Reason for capping the run, is a few things. Not only dealing with traffic on the trail, but the flow of the group. This run is for you guys. Places like the alpine tunnel and the Mary Murphy mine have tight parking areas, getting a really big group to these spots can be a challenge. And by the time the gunner gets to the parking lot, the front group is ready to go. Then theres camping. The site I'm thinking of, will be good for our group, but I'd just feel bad if somebody was stuck by themselves. And lastly, I've had a few old timers tell me in person they were going out the run, so that's why I was leaving a buffer margin.
Again, thank you all for the interest in this run. Nathaniel and I are super excited for this trip!!
Groucho
Rising Sun Ham Guru
Just to elaborate and summarize...
I know that sounds counter-intuitive, but bear with us.
When we started the Ghost Town Run in 2005, we had the idea of sharing with folks in the club a run we had done as a family a few years in a row. The intent was to have a family oriented run where we could share our love of our "backyard in the mountains" and the rich history and deep rooted culture with people who may not have had the opportunity to learn about it, or had experienced it before it but wanted to do it again. The run was to be at a relaxed pace, offer points to get out, stretch the legs and investigate historical places, and to enjoy camping with everyone. Perry has just as much if not 10x more of that love and history as I do. Which is why we are excited for him to lead the run again as well as to support him as much as we can.
The first couple of years were great, as we had a manageable amount of rigs participating. As word spread of how the run was super enjoyable for everyone, numbers increased. By the time we did the original run (the one we are doing this year) again, we ended up with over 27 rigs, and if I recall right we had over 30. For a run that us as a family were organizing and executing, it became overwhelming, even with help solicited from other club members. There are two main factors that we had to consider for these runs and that would lead us to know how many rigs we could reasonable expect to manage safely.
One--Safety. As the group gets over the 15 rig mark, even with a leader, mid-gunner and tail-gunner, things can happen quickly with regards to safety even to experienced folks who are more than capable of running the trail safely. In a group where there are 7-9 rigs between the leader and each of the gunners, it can put up to a 1/2 mile between those managing the run. This was our biggest concern. We didn't want anyone to get hurt, and while we had plans in place if anyone had a breakdown, we wanted to minimize how that affected the group. We were intent on reminding folks that while this was a relaxed pace run, however the same amount of focus on the trail and being safe must be exercised. Just a moment of attention away from what is going on can potentially result in an unsafe scenario.
Two--Logistics. Like Perry mentioned, there are sights we plan to see on this run that have limited safe parking available, there are limited areas to camp, and the slinky-effect can be of major concern on these trails. Getting everybody to and from the parking areas is a concern. Allowing for time to see the sights without some folks being rushed (people at the tail of the pack) or feeling like it takes forever (people at the front of the pack), as well as weather changes can really change the group's mood fast. Not to forget camping spots for everyone who is expecting to have it all figured out for them so they can pull into camp and start to get dinner ready. All of these things become significant logistical challenges, especially as groups get bigger, and the demographics of the entire group change.
Two smaller groups might be an option, but it may not allow for more rigs as camping space is the main constraint for that.
Perry will ultimately make the call. While he and I haven't talked specifically about this idea, we were going to spitball it over the next few days.
I understand that this all seems overkill for a run that might have 3-5 rigs, but given the amount of interest a well executed plan allows for maximum enjoyment by everyone, and minimizes unforeseen challenges that can really dampen peoples spirits about being on the run.
If anyone has questions, just let Perry or myself know.
I know that sounds counter-intuitive, but bear with us.
When we started the Ghost Town Run in 2005, we had the idea of sharing with folks in the club a run we had done as a family a few years in a row. The intent was to have a family oriented run where we could share our love of our "backyard in the mountains" and the rich history and deep rooted culture with people who may not have had the opportunity to learn about it, or had experienced it before it but wanted to do it again. The run was to be at a relaxed pace, offer points to get out, stretch the legs and investigate historical places, and to enjoy camping with everyone. Perry has just as much if not 10x more of that love and history as I do. Which is why we are excited for him to lead the run again as well as to support him as much as we can.
The first couple of years were great, as we had a manageable amount of rigs participating. As word spread of how the run was super enjoyable for everyone, numbers increased. By the time we did the original run (the one we are doing this year) again, we ended up with over 27 rigs, and if I recall right we had over 30. For a run that us as a family were organizing and executing, it became overwhelming, even with help solicited from other club members. There are two main factors that we had to consider for these runs and that would lead us to know how many rigs we could reasonable expect to manage safely.
One--Safety. As the group gets over the 15 rig mark, even with a leader, mid-gunner and tail-gunner, things can happen quickly with regards to safety even to experienced folks who are more than capable of running the trail safely. In a group where there are 7-9 rigs between the leader and each of the gunners, it can put up to a 1/2 mile between those managing the run. This was our biggest concern. We didn't want anyone to get hurt, and while we had plans in place if anyone had a breakdown, we wanted to minimize how that affected the group. We were intent on reminding folks that while this was a relaxed pace run, however the same amount of focus on the trail and being safe must be exercised. Just a moment of attention away from what is going on can potentially result in an unsafe scenario.
Two--Logistics. Like Perry mentioned, there are sights we plan to see on this run that have limited safe parking available, there are limited areas to camp, and the slinky-effect can be of major concern on these trails. Getting everybody to and from the parking areas is a concern. Allowing for time to see the sights without some folks being rushed (people at the tail of the pack) or feeling like it takes forever (people at the front of the pack), as well as weather changes can really change the group's mood fast. Not to forget camping spots for everyone who is expecting to have it all figured out for them so they can pull into camp and start to get dinner ready. All of these things become significant logistical challenges, especially as groups get bigger, and the demographics of the entire group change.
Two smaller groups might be an option, but it may not allow for more rigs as camping space is the main constraint for that.
Perry will ultimately make the call. While he and I haven't talked specifically about this idea, we were going to spitball it over the next few days.
I understand that this all seems overkill for a run that might have 3-5 rigs, but given the amount of interest a well executed plan allows for maximum enjoyment by everyone, and minimizes unforeseen challenges that can really dampen peoples spirits about being on the run.
If anyone has questions, just let Perry or myself know.
HoneyBadger
Rising Sun Member
You guys make very good points that I can personally relate to.
I had an idea that maybe someone who is on the first run, and pays attention to where we go and what we see and the info about the historical stops, could lead a duplicate run a week or two later for the folks who don't get to go on the first one.
Just an idea.
I had an idea that maybe someone who is on the first run, and pays attention to where we go and what we see and the info about the historical stops, could lead a duplicate run a week or two later for the folks who don't get to go on the first one.
Just an idea.
I can understand the hesitancy for the big group. I also think it's a little early the slide the door closed.. but in the end if you're the guys setting up the run, then you're the guys who can make those calls. Probably the best problem to have honestly.. sure beats no one wanting to run with us. 
I think it's a little early to sweat it honestly. Let me know how I can help.
I think it's a little early to sweat it honestly. Let me know how I can help.
Groucho
Rising Sun Ham Guru
It's a good idea, and there are more than enough folks who have done the run more than once to help facilitate a second trip.
I have all the print material stored and will let it out to whomever wants it, and I can also get GPS coordinates for the campsite we use that will reasonably accommodate many vehicles.
Another idea would be that one of the other GTR trips could be done, either at the same weekend or a different one. We did the area around camp hale one year, the area around Keystone and Montezuma another year that included riding the Georgetown Loop railroad. Just another thought. My only reservation is that it is pretty late to start doing the other runs unless dispersed camping is preferred by all.
here are some trip reports:
'06 GTR--Camp Hale, McCallister Gulch, Mosquito Pass
'07 GTR--Georgetown Loop RR, Waldorf, Argentine, Montezuma, Keystone
'08 GTR--St Elmo, Hancock, Cumberland
'09 GTR--St Elmo, Hancock, Cumberland
I can't seem to find anything on 2005, which was the inaugural. I seem to remember the forum had some weird things going on around that time. Maybe it was lost to the old forum. If I remember right that was when the /forum2/ was added to the used to be /forum/ on the end of the URL.
I have all the print material stored and will let it out to whomever wants it, and I can also get GPS coordinates for the campsite we use that will reasonably accommodate many vehicles.
Another idea would be that one of the other GTR trips could be done, either at the same weekend or a different one. We did the area around camp hale one year, the area around Keystone and Montezuma another year that included riding the Georgetown Loop railroad. Just another thought. My only reservation is that it is pretty late to start doing the other runs unless dispersed camping is preferred by all.
here are some trip reports:
'06 GTR--Camp Hale, McCallister Gulch, Mosquito Pass
'07 GTR--Georgetown Loop RR, Waldorf, Argentine, Montezuma, Keystone
'08 GTR--St Elmo, Hancock, Cumberland
'09 GTR--St Elmo, Hancock, Cumberland
I can't seem to find anything on 2005, which was the inaugural. I seem to remember the forum had some weird things going on around that time. Maybe it was lost to the old forum. If I remember right that was when the /forum2/ was added to the used to be /forum/ on the end of the URL.
Shouldn't be. Was factoring you in since you seemed to show interest.
Word. I already know theres some that are planning on coming that haven't posted. Have you guys on my list.
So, the signups are closed, but you've reserved some spots for buddies that may or may not be joining?
It seems to me that there should be an official sign-up page, not a 'maybe I'll make it if I'm not doing something else'.
When people decide they cannot make it, they can take their name off the list. It feels like a way to cherry pick the group of people that get to go. Obviously I came to the party late, but I asked first to be on the waiting list and other people get responses like, 'Send me a PM'.
LXBRADY
Hard Core 4+
I say the more the merrier......that route is not technical. 
Groucho
Rising Sun Ham Guru
To ensure that everyone is aware...
Perry and I have been communicating back and forth about how to handle the issues that have seemed to sprung up surrounding how popular this run has become.
The focus is to make sure the run comes off without a hitch. It has been determined necessary to limit the amount of rigs to a number we feel is a safe amount given what we have learned during 5 previous times we've done this run (quite successfully, we might add).
(To read the reasons why, see here)
While the current list includes people who indicated to Perry both offline as well as online that they intend to go, we are planning to contact everyone in a timely manner to ensure that there are no wasted spots in the event that someone was actually on the fence and may not be able to commit to go. That way we can manage the spots available with the folks who are 100% committed.
As with any run, it is very common for some folks to pull out at various times before the run for various reasons. This has been figured into the planning, and we will do our best to ensure that as long as we have space available and interested people committed to going, that those spaces available for the safe and enjoyable completion of the run are filled. This process may be ongoing until the week of the run.
Everyone's patience and understanding are extremely appreciated.
Perry and I have been communicating back and forth about how to handle the issues that have seemed to sprung up surrounding how popular this run has become.
The focus is to make sure the run comes off without a hitch. It has been determined necessary to limit the amount of rigs to a number we feel is a safe amount given what we have learned during 5 previous times we've done this run (quite successfully, we might add).
(To read the reasons why, see here)
While the current list includes people who indicated to Perry both offline as well as online that they intend to go, we are planning to contact everyone in a timely manner to ensure that there are no wasted spots in the event that someone was actually on the fence and may not be able to commit to go. That way we can manage the spots available with the folks who are 100% committed.
As with any run, it is very common for some folks to pull out at various times before the run for various reasons. This has been figured into the planning, and we will do our best to ensure that as long as we have space available and interested people committed to going, that those spaces available for the safe and enjoyable completion of the run are filled. This process may be ongoing until the week of the run.
Everyone's patience and understanding are extremely appreciated.
simps80
Rising Sun Member
Nathaniel and Perry,
Nice job handling this!!!
I was going to post up in here about going ... but I know and knew with the revival of this iconic and historic run, the demand would be extreme.
I completely agree with the reasons for limiting, and fully understand the contingent of those interested would be both from the online camp and the offline camp.
I appreciate the fact that you are both willing to make this run a reality, and fully understand the limiting factors.
Again NICE JOB!!!!!
Nice job handling this!!!
I was going to post up in here about going ... but I know and knew with the revival of this iconic and historic run, the demand would be extreme.
I completely agree with the reasons for limiting, and fully understand the contingent of those interested would be both from the online camp and the offline camp.
I appreciate the fact that you are both willing to make this run a reality, and fully understand the limiting factors.
Again NICE JOB!!!!!
PabloCruise
Hard Core 4+
Thank you guys for organizing! I know this is a lot of work to pull this off. If it looks like my 40 will not be ready for the run, I will make sure to "bow-out" in time for others to join as the run organizers see fit!
After a intense week last week, needed to take a step back before posting anything to this thread, I'll tell you all over a beer around the campfire about some of the art I got to hang last week
.
First, when I originally posted this trip, i didnt think there would be so much interest in the run. I realize now that I should have put a close off date in the first post, so everybody would know right away. I apologize for that. And by closing the run, we are by no means trying to discourage new members and regulars from going on this run or any other great runs that this awesome club is leading this summer. Nathaniel already gave our reasons and concerns for such a big group. I wish everyone could come on this trip, but in reality, its just not logistically safe four the group, and other people on the trail. Yes, I had spots saved for other people, but they told me in person that they will be attending the run. Nathaniel and I are not hand picking anyone.
I've been checking the thread daily to double check my list of attendees and people on the waiting list. I will post that up here in a week or two, as well as contact via pm.
Lastly, I'm not to keen on the two groups on the same weekend idea, mainly for the camping issues. Travis, if you or somebody would be up for leading a second weekend trip, I'll happily share routes history and such to you, or whoever wants to lead.
All, this truly means a lot to me to see so much interest. THANK YOU!!
.First, when I originally posted this trip, i didnt think there would be so much interest in the run. I realize now that I should have put a close off date in the first post, so everybody would know right away. I apologize for that. And by closing the run, we are by no means trying to discourage new members and regulars from going on this run or any other great runs that this awesome club is leading this summer. Nathaniel already gave our reasons and concerns for such a big group. I wish everyone could come on this trip, but in reality, its just not logistically safe four the group, and other people on the trail. Yes, I had spots saved for other people, but they told me in person that they will be attending the run. Nathaniel and I are not hand picking anyone.
I've been checking the thread daily to double check my list of attendees and people on the waiting list. I will post that up here in a week or two, as well as contact via pm.
Lastly, I'm not to keen on the two groups on the same weekend idea, mainly for the camping issues. Travis, if you or somebody would be up for leading a second weekend trip, I'll happily share routes history and such to you, or whoever wants to lead.
All, this truly means a lot to me to see so much interest. THANK YOU!!
For what it's worth: Read back to page one and you'll see that both Wes and I expressed interest in this trip early on. He wasn't reserving secret spots for us at all. My question was only whether it was people capped, as I already had a "spot".
Not trying to be a jerk, just didn't want you to get a bad taste in your mouth over something that wasn't true. There are no registration fees with a run like this so it wasn't apparent anyone needed "firm" commitments like a cruise Moab run. Posted months in advance, you're gonna get a lot of people saying "I'm gonna try to make it". If it was a run that was limited by permit, meals, long term vacation planning, flights, etc, different story. This is a long weekend "local" run, so crap happens, and there will be drop outs.
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Unfortunately I have to back out of this trip. I need to be back east that weekend. Have a great Ghost Run.
Jack
Jack
Wow glad to see this one back on the schedule. Was this trip i met the club and so many great peeps. Good luck Perry. I know it will be just as great. Just no sushi rolls. haha