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FZJ80 starting woes

Hulk

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I just ordered a reman Denso starter from Napa. We’ll see if that fixes the problem. My current starter was purchased from Stevinson Toyota in 8/2018, so it’s not quite 3 years old. I’m going to keep it and rebuild it, probably.
 

RayRay27

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Not to run this thread down a rabbit hole of potential issues but I came across a thread on mud that suggested that he neutral safety switch may be dirty and the contacts are worn. Something else to look into potentially?

 

Rzeppa

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I keep coming back to the observation that wiggling the loom could get it to start sometimes, to me that is the most cogent observation for where to look for a root cause. A tip: in my personal experience, most electrical problems in our old rigs are visible to the naked eye (once they are uncovered).
 

Hulk

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Not to run this thread down a rabbit hole of potential issues but I came across a thread on mud that suggested that he neutral safety switch may be dirty and the contacts are worn. Something else to look into potentially?

https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/clean-your-neutral-safety-switch-a442f.1019846/
Yes, Romer pointed me in the same direction. I pulled mine, cleaned it, and then pulled the main 2 wires for inspection. They are both in good shape. I even posted a photo of the wires.
 

ccslider

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You can pull the starter and bench test it. Probably take about 20 mins to pull.

Wiggling the harness sounds suspicious, maybe the wire has corrosion inside or something silly.
 

RayRay27

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Yes, Romer pointed me in the same direction. I pulled mine, cleaned it, and then pulled the main 2 wires for inspection. They are both in good shape. I even posted a photo of the wires.
Did you pull the entire switch off and open it? or just pull the plug in connectors and clean?

1623331861614.png
 

powderpig

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quick test for the neutral safety switch is to how the cruiser starts in Neutral. If it starts in neutral better than the Park posisiton
I would suspect a worn contact.
As for starters, I am still on my original starter with 278Kmiles on it. It is a cold weather one. Crazy some starter will go a long time
some will not.
If I had to guess, I would be looking into the wiring loom along where it can be wiggled. Something is wrong there. I have had some wires melt
in my wiring loom, thus compromising other wires next to it. Pull the box out, split the loom and look in side or the back of the box where the wires plug in.
Yes, corrosion in any of the wires coming off the battery will cause all sort of issues as Jeff states.
Last but not least, the Ignition switch is More common than one can think about, and is not that hard to replace, if you can still get one.
It may be one of the Maintaince items to replace over 250K miles due to vibraiton and how many keys you hang off the key ring(I typically only have one to two keys on my ring).
 

SteveH

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I put 5 NAPA reman starters on my FJ60 in 2.5 years (they finally gave me cash back) - and have just put contacts and the random plunger in every OEM Denso starter after that, on 60 and 80 series. I would be wary of a NAPA rebuild.
 

Hulk

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Did you pull the entire switch off and open it? or just pull the plug in connectors and clean?

Didn't pull the switch, just the plug (and the 2 big wires out of the plug).

quick test for the neutral safety switch is to how the cruiser starts in Neutral. If it starts in neutral better than the Park posisiton
I would suspect a worn contact.

Doesn't start in neutral or park, unfortunately.

If I had to guess, I would be looking into the wiring loom along where it can be wiggled. Something is wrong there. I have had some wires melt
in my wiring loom, thus compromising other wires next to it. Pull the box out, split the loom and look in side or the back of the box where the wires plug in.

I just replaced the battery cables (made new ones at West Marine). Biggest, beefiest cable ever. No improvement.
When you say "pull the box out," where is the box that I need to pull?

Last but not least, the Ignition switch is More common than one can think about, and is not that hard to replace, if you can still get one.
It may be one of the Maintaince items to replace over 250K miles due to vibraiton and how many keys you hang off the key ring(I typically only have one to two keys on my ring).

@Inukshuk also suggested this. I just ordered a new ignition switch from Stevinson.

As for starters, I am still on my original starter with 278Kmiles on it. It is a cold weather one. Crazy some starter will go a long time
some will not.

How many times have you replaced the contacts and plunger on it? The one I just pulled is a cold weather unit. It's only 3 years old. I'm going to rebuild it and keep it on my shelf.
 

Hulk

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New ignition switch (84450-60180) in December 2020 and zero hot start problems since (over a few Moab area trips and Death Valley). Before would always start cold. When hot might start or take 5-15 turns. (Prior problem was with good battery, good starter, good newer battery cables, fusible link, and grounds.)

FYI, there are two part numbers for ignition switches depending on year:
8445060270 <-- correct for my 1996
8445060180
 

Inukshuk

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FYI, there are two part numbers for ignition switches depending on year:
8445060270 <-- correct for my 1996
8445060180
Good to know. I edited my MUD post
 

Hulk

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OK, here is what I have done so far:

1. Cleaned and inspected the wires and plug connecting to the neutral safety switch.
2. Replaced the fusible link.
3. Replaced the starter.
4. Replaced both the positive battery cable (connects to starter) and the negative battery cables (connects to engine block + a smaller wire connecting to the body)
5. Replaced the ignition switch.

No joy so far. Next up:

6. Clean the neutral safety switch. Can also use a jumper to bypass the switch to see if this is the problem.
7. Install a relay, bypass the ignition system.
8. Give up, buy a Camry.
 

cbmontgo

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OK, here is what I have done so far:

1. Cleaned and inspected the wires and plug connecting to the neutral safety switch.
2. Replaced the fusible link.
3. Replaced the starter.
4. Replaced both the positive battery cable (connects to starter) and the negative battery cables (connects to engine block + a smaller wire connecting to the body)
5. Replaced the ignition switch.

No joy so far. Next up:

6. Clean the neutral safety switch. Can also use a jumper to bypass the switch to see if this is the problem.
7. Install a relay, bypass the ignition system.
8. Give up, buy a Camry.
That’s a bummer. Sorry!
 

Inukshuk

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OK, I'll give you $1000 for your 80. I have the cash.

I do not see in this thread, does your 80 start when the transmission is in N?

Have you checked all fuses? Even then if they check, maybe replace them ALL. Low cost. That resolved electrical gremlins 10 years ago for me.
 

Rzeppa

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8. Give up, buy a Camry.
:lmao:

Seriously, I still think you should focus on whatever wires that when you wiggled them made some kind of difference. Of course the brute force bypassing the NSS may or may not do anything, but simply applying direct 12VDC to the starter solenoid terminal will most likely get it to start I bet, another brute force force test.
 

RayRay27

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dan1554

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I remember a San Raphael float trip being a good way to make random electrical connections :dunno:
 

Hulk

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Seriously, I still think you should focus on whatever wires that when you wiggled them made some kind of difference. Of course the brute force bypassing the NSS may or may not do anything, but simply applying direct 12VDC to the starter solenoid terminal will most likely get it to start I bet, another brute force force test.

I have replaced the wires that previously fixed the problem with wiggling. Here's a photo of the massive 1/0 AWG marine positive battery-to-starter cable that I built at West Marine. This thing is a monster. I also built a new negative battery cable that is nearly as big. These were the cables that seemed to fix the problem when I wiggled them previously. I am thinking now that was merely a coincidence.
IMG_1929.jpeg
 

DaveInDenver

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OK, here is what I have done so far:

1. Cleaned and inspected the wires and plug connecting to the neutral safety switch.
2. Replaced the fusible link.
3. Replaced the starter.
4. Replaced both the positive battery cable (connects to starter) and the negative battery cables (connects to engine block + a smaller wire connecting to the body)
5. Replaced the ignition switch.

No joy so far. Next up:

6. Clean the neutral safety switch. Can also use a jumper to bypass the switch to see if this is the problem.
7. Install a relay, bypass the ignition system.
8. Give up, buy a Camry.
This from the 1994 80 series FSM. Sure does seem like #6 has got to be it since you've done everything else. If the 1996 is the same then you can jumper around it to test.

I don't see that it's been asked but when you say it won't start does it crank and not fire or just not crank at all. I assume it's not cranking thus you focused on replacing the starter and heavy cables.

You've done all this but can only say that like Daniel suggests check and clean every terminal, connection and pull and replace fuses. It sometimes helps to de-mate and re-mate any connectors in the circuit. Pulling them apart and reseating will sometimes scrape corrosion off the terminals inside.

Trace each wire to check for fatigue that's broken the conductor or maybe worn a short through the insulation. It's usually sufficient to just use an ohm-meter on each end but physically inspecting is good if it's not too much work.

Starting System_Operation.pngElectrical Wiring Diagram_Starting and Ignition.pngElectrical Wiring Diagram_Starting and Ignition_p2.png
 
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