FJ60 Resto or 200 build?

[KC Masterpiece]

@KC Masterpiece Preaching to the choir over here since I daily my 60! I installed a 2000 Corolla head unit with cassette and hacked Bluetooth into it as my one piece of tech. She starts up every time. It sounds like you embrace what the 60 is, so that makes a case for putting the time/money/work into it.

On the other hand my die hard 60-as-a-daily-driver buddy in Texas just got a relatively cheap high miles 200 and absolutely loves it. The deals are beginning to be out there for 200s. It’s going to stay stock since his 60 is the wheeling rig and he’s got a 62 he’s working on. Look up hemialex on Mud. He’s got a thread going in the 200 forum. Might give you a similar perspective.

Maybe the pro move is to figure out how to keep them all..... Our driveway is getting a bit tight....

 

[Johnny Utah]

Wow! But it’s quite the sight to behold!!!

Slightly off topic but did you say that the beetle is the one promised or is it a different one? Just curious to know what the level of sentiment is towards it.

Here’s what I would do if I were you:
Sell Imelda (sorry girl but the tundra wins), sell the beetle (or give it back), sell the 60(guessing it’s worth more than the 80).

Keep Tundra, 80, and get 200.

After typing this I’m also thinking I would sell the tundra and get a Prius(or a rav4 hybrid). I only say that because the idea of having three trucks that get horrible fuel economy gives me anxiety haha.

 

[Burt88]

The 60 would only be a lot of work so it's a labor of love. I've had a few of them and it's just an addiction to the wagon style at this point. I did the Trail Taylor kit on a current build and even though I haven't driven on it yet I already hate it. Not well thought out. I'm not pleased with any of their products so far. The 80 is the keeper out of the choices. It'll do more than everything you'll ever need with less issue in the long run.

I have a shop in Montrose if you ever need undercarriage and driveline work or maintenance services.

 

[Cruisertrash]

The 60 would only be a lot of work so it's a labor of love. I've had a few of them and it's just an addiction to the wagon style at this point. I did the Trail Taylor kit on a current build and even though I haven't driven on it yet I already hate it. Not well thought out. I'm not pleased with any of their products so far. The 80 is the keeper out of the choices. It'll do more than everything you'll ever need with less issue in the long run.

I have a shop in Montrose if you ever need undercarriage and driveline work or maintenance services.

Are you talking about the TT coil conversion kit or the rear inner c-channels that address the rust?

FWIW I have their sliders and love them.

You’re right though … at the end of the day, people keep a 60 because of love for the platform. It’s a 40 you can fit your family in (and has less rust than a piggie). It’s completely foolish and irrational, yet so many of us understand and can commiserate.

 

[satchel]

The TT coil conversion, especially the rear, is not good from my experience. I even had them do the entire install at their shop and it is just a nightmare. It almost got deadly at one point with my front control arm one thread away from coming disconnected to the axle on the drive back from their shop. Rear shocks broke as soon as I went over a speed bump because they were pounding against the shock mount. Crushed the exhaust they charged me to reroute. Didn't even have any grease in my front birfs and were both missing the plug for the abs. I could go on and on. I regret that kit as well. My truck drove just fine before all that and their kit induced bad torque steer which I think I have mostly sorted out now that I have changed out every arm they made me buy from them, but still not as tight as it was with the leafs. It was very undriveable on the highway. It makes my blood boil just writing all this.

It is finally getting sorted out and will drive better than it did before, but it is basically requiring redoing 75% of what I paid them to do and I just don't have the same trust in it that I used to. Sorry, I clearly needed to vent.

 

[Cruisertrash]

@satchel Vent away!

 

[KC Masterpiece]

Well one thing I have learned here is to NOT consider the trail tailor coil kit.

@Burt88 @Cruisertrash @satchel Since you all have owned multiple 60s what is your opinion of the rust on this one? Body is minimal in the usual spots but no bondo or filler. The frame is what gives me pause. From what I have seen on Mud it is a very common area to rust out. It seems that if all the cancer there is properly cut out and replaced with new metal I should be good for another 15 years. I have been very thorough going over the rest of the frame and have not found any other issues. Paid lots of attention to the body mounts.

When I picked it up that whole section looked like good metal. The rot did not become evident until I got crazy in the wash bay and started cleaning out the frame. There was lots of crud and debris there (looked like mice nesting) that probably held on to moisture.

 

[Cruisertrash]

@KC Masterpiece My previous 60 was like that, it's pretty scary thinking the frame could snap there, although I've never once heard of that happening. The area gets a lot of load from the spring hanger after all. I was not a competent welder and I didn't have the money to pay somebody else to do it, so I bailed to my much cleaner 60. Then again I had rust holes in the body you could fit your head inside...

It can definitely be done though. That crossmember and the spring hanger both need to come out. The fuel & brake lines need to come off too. Great excuse for new lines, and maybe even fabbing up your own beefier, gusseted crossmember. Once you've got the area open it seems straightforward - cut out the rot, then cut a plate to match the shape, weld it in. I think you're on the right track with cleaning out junk inside that can hold water.

At the end of the day, there aren't many 60s left that don't have at least the beginnings of rust in that area.

 

[Burt88]

Well one thing I have learned here is to NOT consider the trail tailor coil kit.

@Burt88 @Cruisertrash @satchel Since you all have owned multiple 60s what is your opinion of the rust on this one? Body is minimal in the usual spots but no bondo or filler. The frame is what gives me pause. From what I have seen on Mud it is a very common area to rust out. It seems that if all the cancer there is properly cut out and replaced with new metal I should be good for another 15 years. I have been very thorough going over the rest of the frame and have not found any other issues. Paid lots of attention to the body mounts.

When I picked it up that whole section looked like good metal. The rot did not become evident until I got crazy in the wash bay and started cleaning out the frame. There was lots of crud and debris there (looked like mice nesting) that probably held on to moisture.

I currently have the same rot on my FJ62 and I thought it would have been toast a long time ago. I'd really have to examine it closer to see what's what but it looks like it's just the inner wall which is very thin and not too strong anyway. It's mostly for attaching various things like brake and fuel lines. Easily patched. The main C channel is what's structural so that is what you want to worry about. I actually cut the rust out and used the holes to wash my frame out periodically. As for the cross member I cut that off and replaced it when the shock tabs broke off.

The thing about those 60 frames is they will always have rust issues unless they're sealed up tight. Just that era of Japanese steel. The 80 frames are far better quality.

For my restoration I searched around and found a 60 in Alabama with a bad motor and perfect frame. So they're still out there.

@satchel I've had to configure things in my own way during the install. Especially the rear which I had to cut out the frame so the mounts aligned properly and could be mounted into the main C channel frame. Apparently TT mounts these to the inner, weaker, wall of the frame. There was also major deflection on the cross member mount for the rear upper control arms. I did the best I could and I know there's a lot of tuning needed when done. I also had to trim the fuel tank to fit and the exhaust is routed a little funky. I still wonder if all the mounts are going to last at the pin because they seem to be mild steel rather than AR steel.

 

[KC Masterpiece]

@KC Masterpiece My previous 60 was like that, it's pretty scary thinking the frame could snap there, although I've never once heard of that happening. The area gets a lot of load from the spring hanger after all. I was not a competent welder and I didn't have the money to pay somebody else to do it, so I bailed to my much cleaner 60. Then again I had rust holes in the body you could fit your head inside...

It can definitely be done though. That crossmember and the spring hanger both need to come out. The fuel & brake lines need to come off too. Great excuse for new lines, and maybe even fabbing up your own beefier, gusseted crossmember. Once you've got the area open it seems straightforward - cut out the rot, then cut a plate to match the shape, weld it in. I think you're on the right track with cleaning out junk inside that can hold water.

At the end of the day, there aren't many 60s left that don't have at least the beginnings of rust in that area.

Glad to hear it. That is the plan. I do not worry about the frame snapping in its current condition. That was the body shops plan. Cut it out and replace. Symetrical on both sides. Going to have them replace and beef up the shock crossbar as well.

Surprisingly I already replaced the rear brake line there and all of the bracket bolts came out nice and easy. Its really just that one section that is in crap shape.

Function over form. It needs to hold up not look pretty or factory.

 

[KC Masterpiece]

The thing about those 60 frames is they will always have rust issues unless they're sealed up tight. Just that era of Japanese steel. The 80 frames are far better quality.

If I do go through with it the whole frame will be sandblasted and repainted. Interior will get cleaned out and fluid filmed.

I thought the same thing about the inner rail.

 

[Cruisertrash]

@KC Masterpiece Rather than going coils, there are ways to get leaf springs under a 60 to get much more flexy than the standard Conestoga-wagon quality Old Man Emu lift everyone uses. Just FYI. If you're trying to make that thing more comfortable on the road there are ways to do. Happy to chat about it.

 

[Burt88]

@KC Masterpiece Rather than going coils, there are ways to get leaf springs under a 60 to get much more flexy than the standard Conestoga-wagon quality Old Man Emu lift everyone uses. Just FYI. If you're trying to make that thing more comfortable on the road there are ways to do. Happy to chat about it.

I agree. For this build I had permission from the owner to go all out and put the whole conversion together. Hindsight is 20/20. Part of the idea was to see if the conversion is worth it so I could offer it in my shop. But I won't recommend it.

I've determined the same with quite a list of aftermarket and conversion products and suppliers. It's been quite a disappointing journey.

 

[Corbet]

If I do go through with it the whole frame will be sandblasted and repainted. Interior will get cleaned out and fluid filmed.

I thought the same thing about the inner rail.

If you would have the frame completely removed for sanblast and paint why not swap the frame for an 80-series frame and gain the suspension upgrade that would come with it.

Seems like if your going to separate the body/frame/drivetrain the extra work to modify an 80 frame to fit wouldn't really matter.

But I still say sell the 60 & Pickup to buy a newer DD truck. But I don't have a great love of the 60, at least not enough to daily one.

 

[Rzeppa]

Just went through this whole thread and read every post. I had the same frame rot on my 60, even tore off the right front spring hanger during a Father's Day run I led on Barbour Fork a couple years ago. Also tore off the crossmember the shocks are mounted to at one point some years ago from rot. Both of these were straightforward to repair. Obviously the right side of the frame has the fuel and brake lines running on the inside so that's a consideration when you cut out the rot and weld in fresh metal, but I did it. On the crossmember, I cut some tubing of the proper diameter and re-welded the old crossmember back after I cut the ragged ends off, basically sleeved it. It's all good now.

If I'm KC Masterpiece (what's your name dude? I don't see anything in your sig line), I'm selling the 80 and the bug. I've driven a lot of 80s and frankly, they aren't special. 60s are. The bug just stinks of holy-cow wiring issues that would be a huge time sink. Not to mention all the bug stuff (I grew up in the 70s with a lotta bug owners, I know what that stuff is). They're cute and all, but like you said, I don't think your daughter is gong to want to drive it on the highway, any more than she wants to drive my '71 '40 on the highway (at 85 MPH carrying 7 husky men LOL!). You need to keep Imelda because, well, everyone needs a pickup truck to haul stuff. I'm keeping my FJ45, Rita. Just got done hauling a half cord of wood down to our Lakewood house.

I'm totally down with a 250 instead of a 200. Frankly I am waiting patiently for them to become available. I like the creature comforts of my wife's 2021 RAV4.

Little know fact, 60s have more interior space than 80s do. Wouldn't be surprised if they had more space than 100s and 200s too.

At the end of the day, obviously the decision is yours. These are just my

 

[MDH33]

I love 60's and love mini trucks and Imelda, but at the end of the day, your 60 is a money pit and your 80 and Tundra do it all better. Sell everything else and simplify.

 

[Corbet]

Don’t sell the 80-Series short on money pit status. It can hold its own in that category, and with time maybe even earn the crown.

 

[Crash]

Don’t sell the 80-Series short on money pit status. It can hold its own in that category, and with time maybe even earn the crown.

Many folks believe the 80 is hands down the best, straight from the factory, 4wd vehicle ever built. I’m one those believers even only having owned an 80 for only a few years. I love my 62 and really appreciate what the 100 does for us. The 62 is simply a gas to drive around town and on serious trails while the 100 is, except for fuel mileage, so practical as a daily driver. Sometimes I consider trading the 62 for a 200 and selling the 100.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Best 4WD in the stable?

The Beetle.

That's just judging on the number of places I've seen someone claw their way into with them. If the driving gets too tough you can always just carry it, too.

All the what-if and GOAT talk is fine. An argument could be made for the 80 on tech, the 60 on soul, the pickups have their place.

But you know, honestly, if I had to pick the "best 'wheeler" in your stable it would be Imelda. You know why? It got us into and back home from so many places without a ton of drama. But my criteria is experiences per gallon, so that conclusion can only be true for me and hopelessly biased, no question about that. Bare in mind that I'm also probably the only person in the world who has zero regrets over selling an FJ40 and was dumb enough to take an IFS truck and high center of gravity camper through th Rubicon. Intelligent or traditionalist, I am most definitely not. Form, function and utility. A car is just a hunk of steel until its soul develops with what you do with it.

So objectively maybe I'd keep the 60 for exploring. They sure aren't making any more of them, they can be built to be pretty fine 'wheelers, they are simple and reliable. Slow, yeah, but why do you need to be in a hurry?

Imelda to knock around daily. Sell the Beetle, but that's mainly because in Summit County it seems like a 4WD pickup is simply more useful. Also it's probably the best option for getting into and leaving at trailheads worry-free. In any case if it gets more dents or banged around it's only going to add more "character" to the ol' gal. It's the only vehicle you have that I doubt anyone (me included) is going to fret over. Heck, it could see the business end of a CDOT plow and I'd be more worried about knocking the value of the plow down.

If keeping the Beetle and the Hilux is an option I certainly would. The VW is easy on gas, fun and would get around alright on pavement even in snow. Just that from my perspective they overlap in duty.

It would come down to me between the 80 and Tundra for long trips and highway duty. That's easy, a cushy V8 pickup personally. I'd monetize the 80 while the market is good for them and I'd personally have no reservation. We once had a 4th gen 4Runner and I know a wagon doesn't really suit us for camping. You could put a little money into the Tundra and make it respectable 'wheeler and I'd think comfort-wise it'll actually be nicer on Interstate and mild-to-medium trails camping.

 

[Stuckinthe80s]

I'm not going to be any help here other than I know what you're going through. I look at my fleet and constantly think the same thing. I have "justification" for keeping everything I have but still wonder why I do it. The job I started a few months ago has me working around 60 hours/week and I can't convince myself to do any wrench turning in my off time.

Although I haven't owned a 60, there definitely is something about them. I was able to drive Dave Connors 60 which is probably the most perfectly preserved, original survivor I've ever seen. It was completely stock and there was something magical about driving it. There is definitely a ton of soul in them.

I guess if you do decide to thin down the herd, keep what makes you the happiest. Go on a long drive in each one and see how you feel. Rank them on that and sell the one that you like the least. Don't try to come up with practical reasons why you keep one, just keep what makes you smile the most.