FJ60 Resto or 200 build?

[DaveInDenver]

Don't try to come up with practical reasons why you keep one, just keep what makes you smile the most.

That's the crux.

It's infinitely better to be doing something in what you own now than sitting at home because you don't check off some arbitrary boxes.

 

[KC Masterpiece]

Wow! But it’s quite the sight to behold!!!

Slightly off topic but did you say that the beetle is the one promised or is it a different one? Just curious to know what the level of sentiment is towards it.

Here’s what I would do if I were you:
Sell Imelda (sorry girl but the tundra wins), sell the beetle (or give it back), sell the 60(guessing it’s worth more than the 80).

Keep Tundra, 80, and get 200.

After typing this I’m also thinking I would sell the tundra and get a Prius(or a rav4 hybrid). I only say that because the idea of having three trucks that get horrible fuel economy gives me anxiety haha.

The beetle is not the one promised. My father in law was working on a complete restoration and had a rebuilt drivetrain and a perfect primed body. He decided to trade all the parts for a working VW. It is in okay shape, has a bit of rust and some serious redneck wiring. Starts and drives but its like prom night trying to find a gear. Amber has emotional attachment to the idea of driving a restored beetle. I also think they are super fun and we would love to have one some day. After some conversation we are going to sit on this one until I can really dive in and see what it needs.

The 60 would only be a lot of work so it's a labor of love. I've had a few of them and it's just an addiction to the wagon style at this point. I did the Trail Taylor kit on a current build and even though I haven't driven on it yet I already hate it. Not well thought out. I'm not pleased with any of their products so far. The 80 is the keeper out of the choices. It'll do more than everything you'll ever need with less issue in the long run.

I have a shop in Montrose if you ever need undercarriage and driveline work or maintenance services.

I think I am also becoming addicted. I really love the truck. Everyone talked about how underpowered the 2f is but in my experience it is only marginally slower than the 1FZ. No complains using the 60 as a daily with the 5 speed.

Are you talking about the TT coil conversion kit or the rear inner c-channels that address the rust?

FWIW I have their sliders and love them.

You’re right though … at the end of the day, people keep a 60 because of love for the platform. It’s a 40 you can fit your family in (and has less rust than a piggie). It’s completely foolish and irrational, yet so many of us understand and can commiserate.

That is exactly why we went 60 over 40. 4 doors and more creature comforts. I usually have at least 1 dog that needs a space and we are expanding to two soon.

If you would have the frame completely removed for sanblast and paint why not swap the frame for an 80-series frame and gain the suspension upgrade that would come with it.

Seems like if your going to separate the body/frame/drivetrain the extra work to modify an 80 frame to fit wouldn't really matter.

But I still say sell the 60 & Pickup to buy a newer DD truck. But I don't have a great love of the 60, at least not enough to daily one.

I got quotes for a frame off and its just not in the cards. Rust Doctor is confident they can take care of the frame repairs without removing the body. They typically do body mounts at the same time so they lift the body just enough to get the tops of the frame rails properly treated. I was suspect at first, but they convinced me it is the way to go. I also spoke with Proffits and sent over some photos of the frame rust. They were confident it can be property repaired for many more years of service life.

Just went through this whole thread and read every post. I had the same frame rot on my 60, even tore off the right front spring hanger during a Father's Day run I led on Barbour Fork a couple years ago. Also tore off the crossmember the shocks are mounted to at one point some years ago from rot. Both of these were straightforward to repair. Obviously the right side of the frame has the fuel and brake lines running on the inside so that's a consideration when you cut out the rot and weld in fresh metal, but I did it. On the crossmember, I cut some tubing of the proper diameter and re-welded the old crossmember back after I cut the ragged ends off, basically sleeved it. It's all good now.

If I'm KC Masterpiece (what's your name dude? I don't see anything in your sig line), I'm selling the 80 and the bug. I've driven a lot of 80s and frankly, they aren't special. 60s are. The bug just stinks of holy-cow wiring issues that would be a huge time sink. Not to mention all the bug stuff (I grew up in the 70s with a lotta bug owners, I know what that stuff is). They're cute and all, but like you said, I don't think your daughter is gong to want to drive it on the highway, any more than she wants to drive my '71 '40 on the highway (at 85 MPH carrying 7 husky men LOL!). You need to keep Imelda because, well, everyone needs a pickup truck to haul stuff. I'm keeping my FJ45, Rita. Just got done hauling a half cord of wood down to our Lakewood house.

I'm totally down with a 250 instead of a 200. Frankly I am waiting patiently for them to become available. I like the creature comforts of my wife's 2021 RAV4.

Little know fact, 60s have more interior space than 80s do. Wouldn't be surprised if they had more space than 100s and 200s too.

At the end of the day, obviously the decision is yours. These are just my

Thanks for the thoughts, Jeff. Kevin here. I did go through your thread about the rust issues on your 60. Ours are almost twins after all. I agree the 60 is special but I can't bring myself to sell the 80. It is just too easy to drive offroad. The auto, lockers, and low range gears just put everything into easy mode. Bug is for my wife and I doubt she is going to really want to drive it on the highway either.

For the frame repair we are going to rebox the inner on both sides from the crossmember back to the shock support bar. Likely replacing both. It is nuts to me how specific the rust is. Front half of the frame almost looks new, it is just that one spot that really got it bad.

If Imelda does go it will be a sweet deal to another RS member. We do have the Tundra for pickup use but its a very nice 1974 edition that I want to keep stock and clean.

We have also been watching the 200s looking for the right time to buy.

I love 60's and love mini trucks and Imelda, but at the end of the day, your 60 is a money pit and your 80 and Tundra do it all better. Sell everything else and simplify.

Yes the 60 is a money pit but aren't they all? Our 80 is in great shape and has strong resale potential but we will never get back what we put into it. Its the memories we have in that truck that makes it worth keeping.

Don’t sell the 80-Series short on money pit status. It can hold its own in that category, and with time maybe even earn the crown.

I agree and we have not even gotten close to what you have done with yours.

Best 4WD in the stable?

The Beetle.

That's just judging on the number of places I've seen someone claw their way into with them. If the driving gets too tough you can always just carry it, too.

All the what-if and GOAT talk is fine. An argument could be made for the 80 on tech, the 60 on soul, the pickups have their place.

But you know, honestly, if I had to pick the "best 'wheeler" in your stable it would be Imelda. You know why? It got us into and back home from so many places without a ton of drama. But my criteria is experiences per gallon, so that conclusion can only be true for me and hopelessly biased, no question about that. Bare in mind that I'm also probably the only person in the world who has zero regrets over selling an FJ40 and was dumb enough to take an IFS truck and high center of gravity camper through th Rubicon. Intelligent or traditionalist, I am most definitely not. Form, function and utility. A car is just a hunk of steel until its soul develops with what you do with it.

So objectively maybe I'd keep the 60 for exploring. They sure aren't making any more of them, they can be built to be pretty fine 'wheelers, they are simple and reliable. Slow, yeah, but why do you need to be in a hurry?

Imelda to knock around daily. Sell the Beetle, but that's mainly because in Summit County it seems like a 4WD pickup is simply more useful. Also it's probably the best option for getting into and leaving at trailheads worry-free. In any case if it gets more dents or banged around it's only going to add more "character" to the ol' gal. It's the only vehicle you have that I doubt anyone (me included) is going to fret over. Heck, it could see the business end of a CDOT plow and I'd be more worried about knocking the value of the plow down.

If keeping the Beetle and the Hilux is an option I certainly would. The VW is easy on gas, fun and would get around alright on pavement even in snow. Just that from my perspective they overlap in duty.

It would come down to me between the 80 and Tundra for long trips and highway duty. That's easy, a cushy V8 pickup personally. I'd monetize the 80 while the market is good for them and I'd personally have no reservation. We once had a 4th gen 4Runner and I know a wagon doesn't really suit us for camping. You could put a little money into the Tundra and make it respectable 'wheeler and I'd think comfort-wise it'll actually be nicer on Interstate and mild-to-medium trails camping.

I have to say the few times I have wheeled Imelda I had more fun than the 80. When it was my DD and our only adventure rig I was very nervous about any damage to the 80. If we do keep the 60 as our vehicle for more "expedition" style wheeling I expect I will be more comfortable throwing the 80 at the hard stuff. It is almost too easy to drive now. Point and shoot on most trails. Wheeling Imelda I really enjoyed actually having to think about line choice again and a bit more of a challenge.

I'm not going to be any help here other than I know what you're going through. I look at my fleet and constantly think the same thing. I have "justification" for keeping everything I have but still wonder why I do it. The job I started a few months ago has me working around 60 hours/week and I can't convince myself to do any wrench turning in my off time.

Although I haven't owned a 60, there definitely is something about them. I was able to drive Dave Connors 60 which is probably the most perfectly preserved, original survivor I've ever seen. It was completely stock and there was something magical about driving it. There is definitely a ton of soul in them.

I guess if you do decide to thin down the herd, keep what makes you the happiest. Go on a long drive in each one and see how you feel. Rank them on that and sell the one that you like the least. Don't try to come up with practical reasons why you keep one, just keep what makes you smile the most.

What if they all make me happy?

That's the crux.

It's infinitely better to be doing something in what you own now than sitting at home because you don't check off some arbitrary boxes.

Agreed.


I really appreciate everyone providing input on this one. Great to see all the varied opinions here. We decided on a path forward favoring

The Tundra and 80 will stay in the stable for the foreseeable future. The 80 will move towards heavier wheeling duty.
VW will be reevaluated next summer when and if I have more time to tinker. Likely will be sold.
60 series will go to rust doctor to begin a frame on resto mod and will stay in the stable as our usable classic vehicle.
Imelda will likely spend her last winter with us as a daily but may go up for sale depending on how much of a money pit the 60 becomes.

To prevent us from second guessing this plan, the 60 will be heading out to Junction this weekend to spend winter with the Rust Doctor. Hopefully back by early spring so I can dive into mechanicals and get out on some dirt next summer.

@satchel & @Telly It looks like both of you have worked with Rust Doctor before. Any thoughts as the 60 heads his way? Jason went through some very detailed photos and spent at least an hr with me on the phone.

@Telly did you keep the gutter trim or paint over it? I can't tell from looking at your photos.

@satchel If I read correctly you had them paint your frame? How is that holding up? They have a new process to sandblast to white metal, prime, and repaint.

 

[DaveInDenver]

I have to say the few times I have wheeled Imelda I had more fun than the 80. When it was my DD and our only adventure rig I was very nervous about any damage to the 80. If we do keep the 60 as our vehicle for more "expedition" style wheeling I expect I will be more comfortable throwing the 80 at the hard stuff. It is almost too easy to drive now. Point and shoot on most trails. Wheeling Imelda I really enjoyed actually having to think about line choice again and a bit more of a challenge.

Didn't mean to imply an old rusty IFS mini truck in any reality would pencil out to be a "good" wheeling truck. They're absolutely terrible. Just meant that it got worked hard being sucktacular at the task of going places. Since I've only the money to have one truck it's got to be equally bad at technical trails as it is at soaking up highway miles. For a few years there I was doing the Kessel Run to STL and back a few times a year and being old age and trying to do a straight through 12 parsec run was getting really, really tiring in it. So I had to get something with cruise control and decent A/C. This Tacoma isn't really any worse at trails than the 1991 but it is head-and-shoulders better at keeping speed on I-70 into a head wind.

 

[Crash]

The beetle is not the one promised. My father in law was working on a complete restoration and had a rebuilt drivetrain and a perfect primed body. He decided to trade all the parts for a working VW. It is in okay shape, has a bit of rust and some serious redneck wiring. Starts and drives but its like prom night trying to find a gear. Amber has emotional attachment to the idea of driving a restored beetle. I also think they are super fun and we would love to have one some day. After some conversation we are going to sit on this one until I can really dive in and see what it needs.


I think I am also becoming addicted. I really love the truck. Everyone talked about how underpowered the 2f is but in my experience it is only marginally slower than the 1FZ. No complains using the 60 as a daily with the 5 speed.


That is exactly why we went 60 over 40. 4 doors and more creature comforts. I usually have at least 1 dog that needs a space and we are expanding to two soon.


I got quotes for a frame off and its just not in the cards. Rust Doctor is confident they can take care of the frame repairs without removing the body. They typically do body mounts at the same time so they lift the body just enough to get the tops of the frame rails properly treated. I was suspect at first, but they convinced me it is the way to go. I also spoke with Proffits and sent over some photos of the frame rust. They were confident it can be property repaired for many more years of service life.


Thanks for the thoughts, Jeff. Kevin here. I did go through your thread about the rust issues on your 60. Ours are almost twins after all. I agree the 60 is special but I can't bring myself to sell the 80. It is just too easy to drive offroad. The auto, lockers, and low range gears just put everything into easy mode. Bug is for my wife and I doubt she is going to really want to drive it on the highway either.

For the frame repair we are going to rebox the inner on both sides from the crossmember back to the shock support bar. Likely replacing both. It is nuts to me how specific the rust is. Front half of the frame almost looks new, it is just that one spot that really got it bad.

If Imelda does go it will be a sweet deal to another RS member. We do have the Tundra for pickup use but its a very nice 1974 edition that I want to keep stock and clean.

We have also been watching the 200s looking for the right time to buy.


Yes the 60 is a money pit but aren't they all? Our 80 is in great shape and has strong resale potential but we will never get back what we put into it. Its the memories we have in that truck that makes it worth keeping.


I agree and we have not even gotten close to what you have done with yours.



I have to say the few times I have wheeled Imelda I had more fun than the 80. When it was my DD and our only adventure rig I was very nervous about any damage to the 80. If we do keep the 60 as our vehicle for more "expedition" style wheeling I expect I will be more comfortable throwing the 80 at the hard stuff. It is almost too easy to drive now. Point and shoot on most trails. Wheeling Imelda I really enjoyed actually having to think about line choice again and a bit more of a challenge.



What if they all make me happy?



Agreed.


I really appreciate everyone providing input on this one. Great to see all the varied opinions here. We decided on a path forward favoring

The Tundra and 80 will stay in the stable for the foreseeable future. The 80 will move towards heavier wheeling duty.
VW will be reevaluated next summer when and if I have more time to tinker. Likely will be sold.
60 series will go to rust doctor to begin a frame on resto mod and will stay in the stable as our usable classic vehicle.
Imelda will likely spend her last winter with us as a daily but may go up for sale depending on how much of a money pit the 60 becomes.

To prevent us from second guessing this plan, the 60 will be heading out to Junction this weekend to spend winter with the Rust Doctor. Hopefully back by early spring so I can dive into mechanicals and get out on some dirt next summer.

Like

@satchel & @Telly It looks like both of you have worked with Rust Doctor before. Any thoughts as the 60 heads his way? Jason went through some very detailed photos and spent at least an hr with me on the phone.

@Telly did you keep the gutter trim or paint over it? I can't tell from looking at your photos.

@satchel If I read correctly you had them paint your frame? How is that holding up? They have a new process to sandblast to white metal, prime, and repaint.

“…like prom night trying to find a gear”. Love it!!!

 

[KC Masterpiece]

Didn't mean to imply an old rusty IFS mini truck in any reality would pencil out to be a "good" wheeling truck. They're absolutely terrible. Just meant that it got worked hard being sucktacular at the task of going places. Since I've only the money to have one truck it's got to be equally bad at technical trails as it is at soaking up highway miles. For a few years there I was doing the Kessel Run to STL and back a few times a year and being old age and trying to do a straight through 12 parsec run was getting really, really tiring in it. So I had to get something with cruise control and decent A/C. This Tacoma isn't really any worse at trails than the 1991 but it is head-and-shoulders better at keeping speed on I-70 into a head wind.

Honestly im very surprised how good she handled off road for what she is. That autolocker works some serious magic.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Honestly im very surprised how good she handled off road for what she is. That autolocker works some serious magic.

Right, I forgot about the Aussie.

 

[Cruisertrash]

@KC Masterpiece

Cowagunga it is!!! 60s rule and you will have zero regerts. With inspiration from @Crash I’ll be heading up a 60s only run next year so hopefully we’ll see you there.

 

[MDH33]

@KC Masterpiece

Cowagunga it is!!! 60s rule and you will have zero regerts. With inspiration from @Crash I’ll be heading up a 60s only run next year so hopefully we’ll see you there.

Count me in

 

[Cruisertrash]

Count me in

Clarification: 60s and STOUTS run, so if the Stout is runnin’ bring it!

 

[HDavis]

Clarification: 60s and STOUTS run, so if the Stout is runnin’ bring it!

Dang, I was excited because I should have a 60 by then, but now I want to bring the Stout.
I couldn't begin to imagine driving a Stout from Iowa to Colorado. My body hurts after 2-3 hours in mine.


@KC Masterpiece Do mind sharing what the rust doctor quoted you for that rust work?

 

[KC Masterpiece]

Dang, I was excited because I should have a 60 by then, but now I want to bring the Stout.
I couldn't begin to imagine driving a Stout from Iowa to Colorado. My body hurts after 2-3 hours in mine.


@KC Masterpiece Do mind sharing what the rust doctor quoted you for that rust work?

Our firstborn son.

They gave me a soft quote I will have better info once they get it on the lift and we agree on yhe exact plan. Definitely not cheap.....

 

[Jcbmx]

I'll chime in as someone who started in Vw's and transitioned to Toyota's...and have a 71vw bus Westfalia, 1962 bug, (sold a 69 Karmann ghia), 2008LC and 69 FJ40. Vw's, sad to say, are more smiles to the gallon than any other vehicle I've owned, especially for putting around town/grabbing a coffee. I've done a 1500 mile trip, each way and averaged 55mph with no issues other than my points closing because the bolt inside the distributor was stripped, re set and still finished 2000+ miles. Without my exposure to Vw's I wouldn't have a love for my Toyota's or any cars really . They're so simple and fun it'll make your daughter truly appreciate other vehicles in the future. If you're worried about the wiring harness you can get a headlight-taillight complete harness sub $300 that's factory color coded and completely rewire a bug in a few hours. I say make a lifelong automobile lover and give the gift of the bug!


I daily my 200 and would take one 10/10 over a 250. More tech, smaller engine and mandatory hybrid? I don't have any advice for the rest of the situation though...

 

[satchel]

@KC Masterpiece
Jason is a super stand up guy and was receptive to all my concerns. I'm pretty happy with the work that was done, no complaints really. So far the paint on the frame has held up without issues.

 

[BritKLR]

I'll chime in as someone who started in Vw's and transitioned to Toyota's...and have a 71vw bus Westfalia, 1962 bug, (sold a 69 Karmann ghia), 2008LC and 69 FJ40. Vw's, sad to say, are more smiles to the gallon than any other vehicle I've owned, especially for putting around town/grabbing a coffee. I've done a 1500 mile trip, each way and averaged 55mph with no issues other than my points closing because the bolt inside the distributor was stripped, re set and still finished 2000+ miles. Without my exposure to Vw's I wouldn't have a love for my Toyota's or any cars really . They're so simple and fun it'll make your daughter truly appreciate other vehicles in the future. If you're worried about the wiring harness you can get a headlight-taillight complete harness sub $300 that's factory color coded and completely rewire a bug in a few hours. I say make a lifelong automobile lover and give the gift of the bug!


I daily my 200 and would take one 10/10 over a 250. More tech, smaller engine and mandatory hybrid? I don't have any advice for the rest of the situation though...

There is so many great VW stories like this. I have neighbor who has a Beetle convertible. It has a great story. She got it as her Boot Camp vehicle over 30 years ago. She drove to all her duty stations/bases around the US.. Stored it when over seas. Restored it twice in the parking lot of Bases she was assigned to. Now retired, she's prepping to do a full body, engine, etc restoration and just keep driving it. Amazing

 

[Cruisertrash]

@KC Masterpiece I have not had Jason work on any of my vehicles, but he has purchased a fair amount of the 60 Series parts I make for builds that he’s done. On that end he’s been great to work with: very straightforward, always on time with payment, and just a generally pleasant dude. His assistant/admin staff Alexis has been great too. I know Doug and a few others here have been really happy working with him as customers. I think as long as you open the checkbook wide you’ll end up happy.

 

[Rzeppa]

I don't know if @Inukshuk is following this thread but he had a VW Thing at one point. I think he had it for sale a few years ago. Obviously there is some commonality in the personality of someone who is into old Land Cruisers (or Stouts) and old VWs. My first car was almost a VW microbus, ended up with a Country Squire (meh).

 

[HDavis]

I don't know if @Inukshuk is following this thread but he had a VW Thing at one point. I think he had it for sale a few years ago. Obviously there is some commonality in the personality of someone who is into old Land Cruisers (or Stouts) and old VWs. My first car was almost a VW microbus, ended up with a Country Squire (meh).

Yup. I had a Westfalia, a Super Beetle and a Ghia.

 

[KC Masterpiece]

Ready to go see the doctor.

 

[RDub]

Is the dash pad original? Looks crack free. Jealous!

 

[KC Masterpiece]

Is the dash pad original? Looks crack free. Jealous!

Yes original dash pad. It has a bit of a lip forming but no cracks.

I guess its time to move over to a build thread.