Adventures in 4Runner'ing

[AxleIke]

I am a Warn guy, but the Smittybuilt is okay. There have been a few issues with it, but I've seen plenty of people very happy with it.

Keep in mind, there are also various grades of synthetic rope. It is susceptible to break down in UV. There is a reason the good ropes cost a fair amount.

For reference, Bill Burke is one of my all time 4x4 heroes. He is sensible, nice, and everything I wish the rest of the 4x4 community would behave like. Rising sun embodies a group that acts like Bill, and is a very big part of why I love this club.

http://bb4wa.com/the-reliability-of-amsteel-blue-winch-ropes/

He is an expert 4x4 trainer, and you should read his articles, though I linked a pertinent one above. Obviously not everyone has the coin for top of the line stuff, but it's good information nonetheless.

I think for the price a Smittybuilt is the way to go, but you may want to consider the steel option until you have a chance to research or decide on a synth line.

 

[DouglasVB]

That is not a snatch strap. If you're using it to snatch you are putting yourself and people around at risk.

They are tow straps.

Yikes! I'll be labeling it as such shortly and will relegate it to only towing duty on pavement or similar conditions where I'm not trying to get something unstuck.

That would be the absolute first thing I would add to my truck. Go to Slee, ask for the 2" one, that's all you'll need for a mini truck. Pay him whatever they are asking for one now (list is $63).

http://store.arbusa.com/ARB-Snatch-Strap-17600lb-ARB705-P3619.aspx

I'll go over today if I can get done with work early enough and pick one up. Would it be worth the extra $20 to jump up to the 24000lb snatch strap from ARB? I know my minitruck is teany tiny compared to folks with big Land Cruisers and won't need a big strap but would it be good for me to carry a huge overkill strap in case someone needs to borrow it to snatch someone out of mud on the trail?

 

[DouglasVB]

If you're getting a rattle from the engine I would definitely check the valve lash ASAP. When you pull the valve cover off you get a chance to look down into the timing chain cover. You need to make sure your chain guides and chain tensioner are working and that the chain isn't wearing into the cover. If that's your rattle (does it sound like a diesel at start-up and go away after a few seconds?), you may not have 1,500 miles before damage occurs. The timing chain system is the Achilles Heel of the 22R. Toyota used a double row chain on the 20R with metal-backed rubber-faced guides. They are bulletproof. With the 22R Toyota went to a single row chain and nylon guides. This works fine but has a finite lifespan, so they need to be inspected periodically and replaced eventually.

I'm planning to pop the valve cover tonight (once I get a new gasket and grommets from Stephenson Toyota) to check valve clearance. I found the appropriate pages in my Toyota service manual for clearances and alignments. Are there any tricks that I should be aware of while checking the valve lash? It looks like I use feeler gauges, turn a nut and use a screw driver to adjust things, and that's about it?

I'll look at the timing chain. I have paperwork that the timing chain was replaced and new guides were installed 11k miles ago. Looks like it was a single row chain with plastic guides that was put in. The PO said that the squeaking noise (like a belt but I haven't localized it to the belts yet. Someone suggested it could be the power steering pump pulley or the belt idler adjustment) started about 500 miles after that job was done. The shop he used said it was a main bearing although considering how long it's been going on for, I doubt that. Does this video accurately portray what I should be looking for? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeEb5KvyURI (basically it says to check the driver side plastic guide to see if it's broken or not)

Is this the gold standard instruction set for doing the timing chain and other things that should be done at the same time? http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTricks/EngineMods/TimingChain.shtml

I don't have an engine hoist or the space to really pull an engine out of the truck although it looks like I can alternatively lower the front differential to get at the engine oil pan. This looks like about an eight hour job for me doing it the first time? Is that a reasonable estimate of the time?

I think the "4 piece front end kit" here http://www.engnbldr.com/toyota-ala-carte.html is what I would want? Does this company ship relatively quickly?

 

[DouglasVB]

When my 4WD winds up I dump the clutch in reverse on dry pavement for a few feet, not enough to kill the engine or anything but enough shock to untwist everything.

I have to back up several feet in 4 hi and then come to a stop and try shifting then. I also unlock my hubs once it's in 2 hi.

This is common, as there's some tension in the driveline when in 4WD. I find it easier when moving, and you can just keep a little forward pressure on the shifter as you speed up and slow down. At some point, it'll slide right into gear.

Thanks guys! I'll try these tricks next time I'm shifting out of 4wd and into 2Hi.

 

[DouglasVB]

The badlands 9 lbs from Harbor Freight is the same price as the Smittybilt xrc 9.5 at 4wheelparts. If it was my money, I would buy the smittybilt. For an extra $150 you can get it with the synthetic rope. I've read too many bad reviews on the HF winch.

Smittybilt is waterproofed from the factory (or at least I think I saw that on their spec sheets) so it definitely has that going for it!

 

[DaveInDenver]

Obviously not everyone has the coin for top of the line stuff, but it's good information nonetheless.

I think this is an important statement. There are places where we can cut corners where the risk is inconvenience and there are places that we can't. A winch rope (like shackles, straps, etc.) should carry trustworthy ratings. That's not to say you don't shop for a value, but if you can't afford the known good products you have to keep saving. I use Gunnebo and Crosby shackles, Amsteel winch line, etc. I feel comfortable that what these manufacturers say their product can do is true.

I think for the price a Smittybuilt is the way to go, but you may want to consider the steel option until you have a chance to research or decide on a synth line.

A winch is another item that I want to be good. I waited until I could save for a Warn because (1) they still make their core models in the same Oregon factory as always, (b) stock spare parts forever for them and (3) generally are reliable. The thing in my mind was that a winch spends most of it's time getting ruined by weather, so I wanted something I could trust to work when it does get used.

So I would run a steel line on a US-made Warn over a synthetic on something less expensive. There are downsides to steel line, weight, rust and the need to damp the line in the event of break. But you can always upgrade the line, you'll always be stuck with the winch itself. What is the saying, buy once, cry once?

 

[DouglasVB]

I am a Warn guy, but the Smittybuilt is okay. There have been a few issues with it, but I've seen plenty of people very happy with it.

Keep in mind, there are also various grades of synthetic rope. It is susceptible to break down in UV. There is a reason the good ropes cost a fair amount.

For reference, Bill Burke is one of my all time 4x4 heroes. He is sensible, nice, and everything I wish the rest of the 4x4 community would behave like. Rising sun embodies a group that acts like Bill, and is a very big part of why I love this club.

http://bb4wa.com/the-reliability-of-amsteel-blue-winch-ropes/

He is an expert 4x4 trainer, and you should read his articles, though I linked a pertinent one above. Obviously not everyone has the coin for top of the line stuff, but it's good information nonetheless.

I think for the price a Smittybuilt is the way to go, but you may want to consider the steel option until you have a chance to research or decide on a synth line.

Thanks for the link! I'll have to read through Bill's site now. Just some light bedtime reading

From some nasty steel line accidents I've seen the aftermath of with logging (many people from my high school went into logging and a few are now dead from logging), I would really rather go to synthetic on day 1. Way back when I used to work for the power company out in Oregon, we also saw some grizzly safety presentations on what can happen when a high tension metal cable suddenly unloads. Being sliced in half isn't my idea of a good time.

If only I could convince my friends who are engineers at Warn to give me their discount...

I'm still probably a month away from making a decision on a winch and synthetic line. Will a 9000# winch be the right call for my minitruck or would it be better to go with a 12000+# winch to potentially be more useful if a big Land Cruiser or other trail behemoth gets stuck and needs a pull? I'm still adjusting to there not being trees on a large portion of the trail (compared to Oregon where they're everywhere) so I guess the idea of using a tree saver strap to secure the rear end of my truck while winching with the front wouldn't work so well...

 

[DouglasVB]

I think this is an important statement. There are places where we can cut corners where the risk is inconvenience and there are places that we can't. A winch rope (like shackles, straps, etc.) should carry trustworthy ratings. That's not to say you don't shop for a value, but if you can't afford the known good products you have to keep saving. I use Gunnebo and Crosby shackles, Amsteel winch line, etc. I feel comfortable that what these manufacturers say their product can do is true.

A winch is another item that I want to be good. I waited until I could save for a Warn because (1) they still make their core models in the same Oregon factory as always, (b) stock spare parts forever for them and (3) generally are reliable. The thing in my mind was that a winch spends most of it's time getting ruined by weather, so I wanted something I could trust to work when it does get used.

So I would run a steel line on a US-made Warn over a synthetic on something less expensive. There are downsides to steel line, weight, rust and the need to damp the line in the event of break. But you can always upgrade the line, you'll always be stuck with the winch itself. What is the saying, buy once, cry once?

It certainly is an interesting debate about winches, build quality, spare parts, etc. At some point I'm going to be stuck somewhere that I need to winch myself (because I'll be alone doing something stupid) and I would rather extract myself than have to wait for a Jeep to come along to pull me out hours or days later.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Yikes! I'll be labeling it as such shortly and will relegate it to only towing duty on pavement or similar conditions where I'm not trying to get something unstuck.

The main thing to recognize is that those hooks on the ends are notorious for becoming projectiles and I don't trust them. They also happen to be sized to fit around trailer ball shanks, which is a doubly bad situation.

The straps can break and don't stretch, so there is some risk of injury or damage (mostly damage, the shock can bend and break stuff), but the hooks are the main issue IMHO.

I'll go over today if I can get done with work early enough and pick one up. Would it be worth the extra $20 to jump up to the 24000lb snatch strap from ARB? I know my minitruck is teany tiny compared to folks with big Land Cruisers and won't need a big strap but would it be good for me to carry a huge overkill strap in case someone needs to borrow it to snatch someone out of mud on the trail?

I have a 3" snatch strap, too, that I have rarely used. What I don't know is if the higher rating means it's also going to stretch less. So I've been getting 2" ones the past couple of times. My assumption is that the amount of energy stored will be the same but if the smaller strap elongates more you get more (or maybe more precisely a longer) snap between the stuck truck and the recovering truck.

 

[ToyodaTocco]

I'm planning to pop the valve cover tonight (once I get a new gasket and grommets from Stephenson Toyota) to check valve clearance. I found the appropriate pages in my Toyota service manual for clearances and alignments. Are there any tricks that I should be aware of while checking the valve lash? It looks like I use feeler gauges, turn a nut and use a screw driver to adjust things, and that's about it?

I'll look at the timing chain. I have paperwork that the timing chain was replaced and new guides were installed 11k miles ago. Looks like it was a single row chain with plastic guides that was put in. The PO said that the squeaking noise (like a belt but I haven't localized it to the belts yet. Someone suggested it could be the power steering pump pulley or the belt idler adjustment) started about 500 miles after that job was done. The shop he used said it was a main bearing although considering how long it's been going on for, I doubt that. Does this video accurately portray what I should be looking for? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeEb5KvyURI (basically it says to check the driver side plastic guide to see if it's broken or not)

Is this the gold standard instruction set for doing the timing chain and other things that should be done at the same time? http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTricks/EngineMods/TimingChain.shtml

I don't have an engine hoist or the space to really pull an engine out of the truck although it looks like I can alternatively lower the front differential to get at the engine oil pan. This looks like about an eight hour job for me doing it the first time? Is that a reasonable estimate of the time?

I think the "4 piece front end kit" here http://www.engnbldr.com/toyota-ala-carte.html is what I would want? Does this company ship relatively quickly?

The engine should be at operating temperature when doing the valve lash check. Also, it is better to err on too loose than too tight when adjusting valves. I'm sure you have adjusted valves before. It's not rocket science, you just want a nice light drag between the feeler gauges and the rocker arm/ valve. You shouldn't have to pull your oil pan (unless IFS is different), I just removed the front four or five oil pan bolts that went into the timingcover . Also, don't forget the bolt that is a oil puddle in the head that goes into the timing cover. I'll try to find a pic. All you should need from engbldr is a timing chain set and gaskets. Just call him and tell him what you need and he will set you up. He's a nice guy and ships quickly. If your going to do a timing chain, I would check compression after you adjusted your valves, do a coolant leak down test, if they fail then do the head gasket while you do the timing chain set. Its not much more work and you have everything torn down anyway.

 

[DaveInDenver]

It certainly is an interesting debate about winches, build quality, spare parts, etc. At some point I'm going to be stuck somewhere that I need to winch myself (because I'll be alone doing something stupid) and I would rather extract myself than have to wait for a Jeep to come along to pull me out hours or days later.

Exactly, and when you push the switch on a cheap Harbor Freight winch and the windings smoke, then what? You're back to square one with a come-along or Hi-Lift moving 3 feet at a time.

The best option is to not get stuck in the first place. Second is travel with a partner. Third option is have everything you need to self-recover. We travel a lot alone so when option 2 is not available I practice option 1 as best as I can. When that's not possible for whatever reason (I find mostly due to unexpected mud or snow), then I want to trust my stuff works.

BTW, I wholeheartedly agree that steel winch line absolutely requires diligence. But the whole act of winching needs attention, so it's just one part of the equation. Lots of people have successfully avoided dying using steel winch line, so it's not impossible to do.

 

[DouglasVB]

SO... to summarize the immediate needs of my 4runner before I can take it to California:

• Check valve clearances and adjust accordingly.
• Check timing chain and replace chain and guides and all the other goodies that one does at the same time.
• Replace backup sensor and change transmission fluid.
• Replace front and rear diff fluid.
• Get a bunch more Motley Crue mp3s for my stereo.

Did I miss anything?



And to summarize my recovery gear immediate or semi-immediate needs:

• ARB snatch strap (17500 lbs or 24000 lbs? I'm willing to spend the extra $20 if it will be more useful to me and others I might be with on the trail.)
• Shackles from a reputable company. I should have... four on hand? Two for normal use and two spares?
• Winch and synthetic line. Something between 9000 and 12000 lb capacity? Amsteel Blue synthetic line with higher rating than the winch. Double rating? Winch won't happen until sometime in July.
• Recovery points on the front from 4Crawler. Will order in July once my bumper arrives and I see how it will all fit together.
• Recovery point on the rear hitch. What is the recommended brand and setup?
• Better shovel than the one I broke on Saturday. (stupid ice )

With recovery stuff for further down the line, is this about right?

• Tree saver strap. What rating? What brand?
• Pull pal or similar for when I'm not near a tree or big rock?
• Snatch block? Brand suggestions? Load capacity?
• Extra snatch strap for when I need to do a longer snatch or winch operation?

Thanks for helping me spend all my money.

 

[DouglasVB]

The main thing to recognize is that those hooks on the ends are notorious for becoming projectiles and I don't trust them. They also happen to be sized to fit around trailer ball shanks, which is a doubly bad situation.

Gotcha. I'll see about cutting those hooks off. Until then, I'll treat the tow strap very carefully and only use it if I have no other option.

I have a 3" snatch strap, too, that I have rarely used. What I don't know is if the higher rating means it's also going to stretch less. So I've been getting 2" ones the past couple of times. My assumption is that the amount of energy stored will be the same but if the smaller strap elongates more you get more (or maybe more precisely a longer) snap between the stuck truck and the recovering truck.

Huh interesting. I'll have to check around about that.

 

[DaveInDenver]

The engine should be at operating temperature when doing the valve lash check.

I've been doing mine stone cold. I'm not quick enough to get them all before the followers are starting to cool anyway. Plus, it just sucks working on a super hot engine bay. Nuts to that. I do 0.007" and 0.011", BTW.

Oh, edit to add, regards to winch capacity. There is no strong reason in my mind for a 12,000 lbs on a mini truck (if you could even find a bumper that will accommodate one). If you're trying to recover a Cruiser that is stuck so bad that you're stalling a 9,000 lbs you'll probably be pulling yourself down towards him anyway since you weigh half as much. You should be doubling the line anyway, so really you're getting 2x the rating.

 

[ToyodaTocco]

I've been doing mine stone cold. I'm not quick enough to get them all before the followers are starting to cool anyway. Plus, it just sucks working on a super hot engine bay. Nuts to that. I do 0.007" and 0.011", BTW.

I've done them both ways. Not a huge difference but the FSM says to do it at operating temp. I've also done it on Detroit Series 60's that just came off of the road and so hot that you can barely touch the rocker arms for more than a second. I've always done .008 and .012. I've seen cams ruined because some mechanic went too tight.

 

[LXBRADY]

Warn or Superwinch and run the cable that comes with it until you kink it then upgrade to Syn.. 9000-9500 lb is enough for your truck....you can always double the line with a snatch block to double the pulling power plus not every extraction is a straight line so you will need one anyway.

....also look for a used Worn Wench as long as your girlfriend does not get jealous.

As for straps carry both....20 foot tow strap can double as a tree saver and a 30' snatch strap for the mud and snow extractions.

You don't need everything right away, buy what you can afford and travel in pairs.....just make sure they have more than you do at the moment.

 

[DouglasVB]

The engine should be at operating temperature when doing the valve lash check. Also, it is better to err on too loose than too tight when adjusting valves. I'm sure you have adjusted valves before. It's not rocket science, you just want a nice light drag between the feeler gauges and the rocker arm/ valve. You shouldn't have to pull your oil pan (unless IFS is different), I just removed the front four or five oil pan bolts that went into the timingcover . Also, don't forget the bolt that is a oil puddle in the head that goes into the timing cover. I'll try to find a pic. All you should need from engbldr is a timing chain set and gaskets. Just call him and tell him what you need and he will set you up. He's a nice guy and ships quickly. If your going to do a timing chain, I would check compression after you adjusted your valves, do a coolant leak down test, if they fail then do the head gasket while you do the timing chain set. Its not much more work and you have everything torn down anyway.

Is it worthwhile to pull the pan to verify there aren't any plastic chunks from an old timing guide waiting to grenade the oil pump someday?

Okay the valve adjustment sounds pretty much the same as on some old Honda motorcycles. And BONUS I don't have to go chase down shims like on newer motorcycles!

I'll see about picking up a compression tester kit to do that test on the engine.

The cooling system tool I have is an Astro kit. Handy for finding leaks, too. Usually hoses only leak when they're hot and the water pump is spinning fast, e.g. you're driving down the highway. My wife doesn't like holding on to the hood to find the pinhole in the radiator, so, you know, that's why I got the kit.

Might I trouble you to borrow your cooling system pressure kit this week, Dave? Or would this Harbor Freight special work well enough? http://www.harborfreight.com/radiator-pressure-tester-kit-69258.html

Bill/Dave, should my order of operation here be:

• Pressure test coolant system
• If coolant system has a problem, further diagnosis to see if I need to do the head gasket.
• Do valve adjustments.
• Check timing chain guides to see if they're broken.
• If timing chain guides are broken, order replacement parts.
• Follow instructions for timing chain. If head gasket needs to be done, work that into the instructions as well.

Independent of that, I can do my backup sensor and transmission fluid change, and differential fluid change.

 

[DaveInDenver]

If you have pieces of guide in your pan, it's probably too late. It would certainly indicate now is the time!

You're welcome to borrow my tools, but keep in mind I live in Loveland, so it's not a quick trip. I've never seen the Harbor Freight kit so can't comment. Sometimes their stuff is just fine and in this case my guess is as long as the parts seal and the pump pumps, it'll work for the amount you'll use it. BTW, I got my kit over at the Tool King on 6th, they have (or used to at least) have OTC and other brands that no one else carried.

I would put HG lower in priority, they usually give you some warning, loss of coolant, oil & coolant mixing, poor running before they fail. You'll be able to tell a lot when you do a compression check and the valve lash.

 

[DouglasVB]

If you have pieces of guide in your pan, it's probably too late. It would certainly indicate now is the time!

You're welcome to borrow my tools, but keep in mind I live in Loveland, so it's not a quick trip...

I would put HG lower in priority, they usually give you some warning, loss of coolant, oil & coolant mixing, poor running before they fail. You'll be able to tell a lot when you do a compression check and the valve lash.

Okay I'll hold off on worrying about the head gasket for now. If that Harbor Freight coolant pressure tester looks decent, I might pick that up rather than drive up to Loveland. With gas and the inevitable snack along the way, it would be about the same cost.

I'll pick up a compression tester this afternoon and do that test after the valves are adjusted.

 

[DouglasVB]

You don't need everything right away, buy what you can afford and travel in pairs.....just make sure they have more than you do at the moment.

Haha good point! Always travel with someone who has more gear than you do.