Adventures in 4Runner'ing

[AxleIke]

That's glamping. But ever since getting an Engel I'm happy to be so, if that's what we do.

I have an ARB and love it. I use it for camping.

You should quote the entire thing. Snipping loses the original context, which was good natured and fun poking, not mean.

That is called camping. If you spend several tens of thousands of dollars on stuff you use to go to the KOA, that is called over landing. You also need a wiffle ball bat!

(For those who overland, this is a joke)

 

[DouglasVB]

Here are photos of what I picked up at the rally from Justin (thanks again!). I know I'm missing four plastic bushings (red things), two lock washers for the u-bolts, and I need to rebuild the axle. A high pinion diff will be coming from Dave in a few months. Also will regear and drop in air lockers.

I didn't expect to get an extended pitman arm in the goodies. It's a trail gear p/n:130599-1-kit.

Also didn't expect the propeller shaft. Do I need that?

I know I need a high steer kit still. And big tires. What else am I missing?

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

 

[DouglasVB]

Oh also I know I need shock towers and shocks.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

 

[ToyodaTocco]

In case you didn't know, your shackles go with the springs not with the ubolts. I'm pretty sure you want the front driveshaft for the solid axle conversion, I don't think your old one will work.
Off the top of my head you will need extended brake lines.

 

[DouglasVB]

In case you didn't know, your shackles go with the springs not with the ubolts. I'm pretty sure you want the front driveshaft for the solid axle conversion, I don't think your old one will work.
Off the top of my head you will need extended brake lines.

Ahhh! I did not know that. I need to get a good set of directions to follow for all of this...

Considering the brake lines on the brake calipers are cut, I definitely need brake lines in general.

 

[ToyodaTocco]

Also, you will want a set (2) of 1.5 inch wheel spacers for the front axle, to match your rear axle width.

some instructions: https://www.allprooffroad.com/images/stories/Instructions/solid axle swap instructions.pdf

 

[AxleIke]

Can you explain the driveshaft? From the picture it looks like the center shaft from the rear of a Taco with a pillow block bearing, though I was pretty sure those don't have the CV end.

If you have a single case, you will want to pull that joint apart, and clearance it for the extra droop. With dual cases, its less of an issue. You can find the instructions on 4x4 wire:

http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/tech/cvmod/

you can get the joints from high angle driveline. Good idea to rebuild anyway.

 

[Squishy!]

Douglas that drive shaft I threw in as a joint donor for the new one you'll need for the SAS. It's not a bolt in. I found myself needing extra CVs when I swapped my front end.

 

[DouglasVB]

Douglas that drive shaft I threw in as a joint donor for the new one you'll need for the SAS. It's not a bolt in. I found myself needing extra CVs when I swapped my front end.

Ahhh! Makes sense.

So much to learn before the welding starts!

 

[DouglasVB]

Let's revisit the Great Winch Debate of 2015

I'm still screwing around thinking about what winch I want to get. Still no resolution. Harbor Freight has their 12000 lb winch on sale for $300 again. It's tempting.

What do you all think about used winches? I see quite a few Warn 8274 winches on Craigslist locally for ~$400-800 depending on how dirty they are. Am I asking for trouble getting a used winch? I know those old 8274s are pretty darn heavy though compared to modern winches (~110#).

Otherwise I could get a brand new Warn M8000 or something like a Smittybilt XO2 12000# winch.

My primary driver for wanting a winch is to get myself unstuck when I'm out alone (like last spring in the snow). Otherwise I am confident that when traveling in a group, someone else will have a winch or we can use a snatch strap (I have an ARB one of those).

It would really be great if someone were to buy every major winch available on the market, test all to failure (repetitive testing), disassemble all, and compare everything to see what the real deal is. It's becoming pretty obvious that all of the low end winches are identical and it looks like many of the mid range ones are, too. Is an M8000 REALLY better than the equivalent Smittybilt or even Harbor Freight special? Without empirical, quantitative, statistically significant testing data, there's no way to tell.

Also the "parts are available for 30 year old winches" point is kinda moot for when a winch brakes on the trail. It doesn't help much that I can mail order a part. At that point, with a Harbor Freight winch, I could just about buy a whole new winch and have the old one as spare parts. That'd be just about the same price as replacing a major component on a Warn winch.

THE DEBATE RAGES ON!

 

[LXBRADY]

I'm still screwing around thinking about what winch I want to get. Still no resolution. Harbor Freight has their 12000 lb winch on sale for $300 again. It's tempting.

What do you all think about used winches? I see quite a few Warn 8274 winches on Craigslist locally for ~$400-800 depending on how dirty they are. Am I asking for trouble getting a used winch? I know those old 8274s are pretty darn heavy though compared to modern winches (~110#).

Otherwise I could get a brand new Warn M8000 or something like a Smittybilt XO2 12000# winch.

My primary driver for wanting a winch is to get myself unstuck when I'm out alone (like last spring in the snow). Otherwise I am confident that when traveling in a group, someone else will have a winch or we can use a snatch strap (I have an ARB one of those).

It would really be great if someone were to buy every major winch available on the market, test all to failure (repetitive testing), disassemble all, and compare everything to see what the real deal is. It's becoming pretty obvious that all of the low end winches are identical and it looks like many of the mid range ones are, too. Is an M8000 REALLY better than the equivalent Smittybilt or even Harbor Freight special? Without empirical, quantitative, statistically significant testing data, there's no way to tell.

Also the "parts are available for 30 year old winches" point is kinda moot for when a winch brakes on the trail. It doesn't help much that I can mail order a part. At that point, with a Harbor Freight winch, I could just about buy a whole new winch and have the old one as spare parts. That'd be just about the same price as replacing a major component on a Warn winch.

THE DEBATE RAGES ON!

I can only speak to Warn....I have had three on three different rigs over the past 8 years and they never let me down. 9500 new, 9000 15 years old and a 15000, current set up, 10 years old. I would look for a used warn between 8k and 9500 for your rig. Wait for the right one and you won't be disappointed. Super Wench also is highly recommended.

Free advice: Don't venture out in deep snow all by yourself in the High Country it can go bad quickly.

Brady out

 

[beatdown83fj60]

I like your approach with this build. I've heard great things about the Harbor Freight winches as I have two friends with them on their rigs. No problems so far. I think if you were competition rock crawling or doing hardcore runs like Carnage BV all the time you might want to second the Harbor Freight winch but for the occasional tug and pull, I have faith in them. At $300, just buy two lol.

 

[DouglasVB]

I like your approach with this build. I've heard great things about the Harbor Freight winches as I have two friends with them on their rigs. No problems so far. I think if you were competition rock crawling or doing hardcore runs like Carnage BV all the time you might want to second the Harbor Freight winch but for the occasional tug and pull, I have faith in them. At $300, just buy two lol.

I've actually thought about buying two HF winches. Then I could have one in the front and one in the rear. TWICE as many winches means TWICE as much fun, right???

 

[FJCDan]

I've actually thought about buying two HF winches. Then I could have one in the front and one in the rear. TWICE as many winches means TWICE as much fun, right???

I like your thinking Douglas. I will try and look for the mag I have with the winch test and bring it Sunday. Very good review on it.

 

[AxleIke]

I would rather have a used Warn than a new HF winch. You'd be better off with the winch from Costco, also 300 bucks, and also from China.

Yes, you can get parts for pretty much every Warn ever made.

Its up to you. I have heard nothing but bad things about HF winches, but I have no personal experience. I have a Warn. I admit, I was swayed when I got mine by the interwebs, particularly pirate stories of cheap winches, and my dad has had his warn M8000 for 15 years and it still works like a champ despite being out in the weather every day.

However, the bad reviews were mostly electrical in nature. The 300 dollars is very tempting, and, it is actually a very simple tool. I would imagine you could pull it apart and replace any of the cheap electrical stuff very cheaply, and as long as the motor didn't overheat, and the gears don't strip, you could probably have a really reliable winch for 400 bucks.

Also, a 12000 lb winch is WAY overkill for your 4runner. I have a 8k on my third gen, which weighs a lot more than your first gen, and I have never stalled it, even on full wrap and only pulling about 10 ft from a serious stuck.

 

[DouglasVB]

Also, a 12000 lb winch is WAY overkill for your 4runner. I have a 8k on my third gen, which weighs a lot more than your first gen, and I have never stalled it, even on full wrap and only pulling about 10 ft from a serious stuck.

Your 3rd gen is a bit portly, eh?

You have the same thoughts as me. I've looked at the electricals on the HF and similar low end Chinese winches. I could pretty easily build a secondary/spare control box with a few auto parts store relays (or similar). Heck, some jumper cables to the battery and motor would make it work. I've watched videos dissecting the winch. It is about the same as what you see in other winches below $1000 except with less grease and no waterproofing. Stuff it with axle grease (or similar) and put some RTV around the seals, and you're in business.

And if I bought two, then I'd have a spare in the back ready to go!

 

[DouglasVB]

But really, what I want is quantitative statistically significant data!

 

[AxleIke]

Well, it's the interwebs, so you'll get qualitative data at best, and garbage opinions (including mine) in spades. The number of people on the interwebs who understand proper data reduction and statistics is about 1 in 1E40000.

I actually use the phrase, "statistically speaking" as a guiding metric. If someone says "statistically speaking", they very likely have absolutely zero understanding of statistics.

 

[AxleIke]

Oh and yes, my 3rd gen is a tad "obese".

 

[DouglasVB]

Oh and yes, my 3rd gen is a tad "obese".

Big is beautiful!

I actually use the phrase, "statistically speaking" as a guiding metric. If someone says "statistically speaking", they very likely have absolutely zero understanding of statistics.

Very true!

If only I had the resources to really do some testing...