Adventures in 4Runner'ing

[DaveInDenver]

To Dave's point, a winch should be as close to inline with the frame as possible and always mounted directly to the frame.

Your bumper should eventually be welded into the frame to maximize strength. At which point you can strap from your bumper all day long. Most guys have their tow points welded to the bumper anyway

Just realized the question is about recovery points and not a winch cradle. It might be better using a receiver in the middle of a bolted on bumper over frame-mounted points. I don't think it's necessary to weld the connections if enough bolts are used. There are plenty of bolted connections in critical use (like transportation bridges, OTR trucks) that are totally sufficient. My ARB has like 14 bolts into the frame members, I think 2 of which are 14mm, 6 are 12mm and the rest are probably 10mm. Welding would only make it PITA to remove and not add much. Now my rear bumper is four 12mm bolts in single shear. It's unlikely to fail but not quite bulletproof. But the factory tow hooks are just two 12mm bolts, so there's your comparison.

 

[DouglasVB]

I could do the analysis to see which is better (bolting vs welding) for a specific application but that sounds way too much like my day job

 

[DanS]

I could do the analysis to see which is better (bolting vs welding) for a specific application but that sounds way too much like my day job

I'm a pretty big believer in using Grade 5 bolts to attach the bumper.

Grade 5 because they are "softer" than grade 8, and if I get hit, I want the bolts to deform, then the bumper, then the frame.

I WAG'd it on the rear bumper of the faux-lux when I made that, and one totaled Suburban on the back of it later, all I did was replace the bolts one by one, and replace the brake light that they cracked--the frame was untouched. 10/10 will do again.


Dan

 

[DouglasVB]

I'm a pretty big believer in using Grade 5 bolts to attach the bumper.

Grade 5 because they are "softer" than grade 8, and if I get hit, I want the bolts to deform, then the bumper, then the frame.

I WAG'd it on the rear bumper of the faux-lux when I made that, and one totaled Suburban on the back of it later, all I did was replace the bolts one by one, and replace the brake light that they cracked--the frame was untouched. 10/10 will do again.


Dan

If that isn't a ringing endorsement for Grade 5 bolts, I don't know what is!

That is an interesting point about using the bolts intentionally as the weakest link to choose where the failure will occur under extraordinary conditions. We do the same sort of work in some of my research (in broad terms). You basically created a "crumple zone" for your faux-lux!

 

[DaveInDenver]

Even grade 5 (85ksi) would be heat treated higher than the frame (maybe 30ksi), so unless you're using exceptionally small bolts wouldn't you want the mild steel bumper to yield before the bolt? Otherwise the bolt is imparting force into a stress concentrated spot (hole, slot) in the frame? If bolts are to be used as a fuse I'd think you'd want them grade 2 (55ksi)or ungraded, at least for something roughly 12mm or 1/2" bolted into a 3/16" frame tube. I know in that wreck when I rear ended the lady on Arapahoe my bumper was distorted badly but none of the bolts or the frame received any damage and we both walked away and my right fender just a dent from the ARB top hoop. I mean, energy is conserved, it's got to go somewhere and in that case not having air bags I was kinda glad it wasn't me or the truck itself that had to absorb all of it. I was only going maybe 30ish when I hit her square on the bumper/rear tire carrier. Bumpers I want to be sacrificial.

 

[AxleIke]

I think you guys are vastly overthinking this. I've used the factory tow hooks to pull my 1st gen runner out of all types of things for years and those are held on by two 10.8 14mm bolts. I've built a number of bumpers over the years, all bolt on, and again zero failures.

Unless your new bumper prevents the use of them Douglas, I would highly recommend you use the factory "D" recovery points. The truck should have come with one, and you can pick up a second to replace the hook on the other side for a couple of bucks at the junk yard.

You will lose those points during the SAS but until then, those factory points are a great choice:easy to install and worry free as the truck is designed to be pulled from there.

 

[LXBRADY]

I think you guys are vastly overthinking this. I've used the factory tow hooks to pull my 1st gen runner out of all types of things for years and those are held on by two 10.8 14mm bolts. I've built a number of bumpers over the years, all bolt on, and again zero failures.

Unless your new bumper prevents the use of them Douglas, I would highly recommend you use the factory "D" recovery points. The truck should have come with one, and you can pick up a second to replace the hook on the other side for a couple of bucks at the junk yard.

You will lose those points during the SAS but until then, those factory points are a great choice:easy to install and worry free as the truck is designed to be pulled from there.

Agree, just run it....if something breaks, replace.....or just keep web wheeling.

 

[DouglasVB]

I think you guys are vastly overthinking this.

Well... we are engineers. Isn't overthinking everything pretty much required?

... I would highly recommend you use the factory "D" recovery points. The truck should have come with one, and you can pick up a second to replace the hook on the other side for a couple of bucks at the junk yard.

On other vehicles I've had, the "D" points on the front were used to tie the vehicles down in transit but it was always previously recommended to me to never use them as recovery points (not designed for anything other than static load, as I understood it). Is it okay to use that "D" point on the 4runner to recover with?

 

[DouglasVB]

Agree, just run it....if something breaks, replace.....or just keep web wheeling.

So far that's what I've been doing and other than a popped tire, no problems yet!

 

[DaveInDenver]

on Other Vehicles I've Had, The "d" Points On The Front Were Used To Tie The Vehicles Down In Transit But It Was Always Previously Recommended To Me To Never Use Them As Recovery Points (not Designed For Anything Other Than Static Load, As I Understood It). Is It Okay To Use That "d" Point On The 4runner To Recover With?

In stock form, these are tie down that were used to transport your truck. They are not rated for recovery, however they are pretty strong and in a pinch it wouldn't be the worst place to tie. They'll bend for sure when you do and they should be replaced ideally, don't rely on them.

This is a recovery or tow point. This is safe to use. On your truck the recovery point has a smaller loop in back, that was the other side tie down.

The tow points are as strong as any thing you're likely to come across. They can break but it's rare.

You can use those 10,000 lbs rated hooks in place of either or both, if you wish.

 

[DouglasVB]

In stock form, these are tie down that were used to transport your truck...

Ahh! Now I understand. I have one hook and one D recovery point on the front. In the rear I have a receiver hitch D ring recovery point. So I think I'm set for now.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Here's another shot of the factory tow hook. Plenty strong, neither the bolts nor the hook gave before the frame...

This is what mine look like with the little loop in back. think you'd actually have the stacked tie-down and tow hook arrangement.

I've mentioned them before, SDORI bow shackle adapters are a good investment.

 

[DouglasVB]

I've mentioned them before, SDORI bow shackle adapters are a good investment.

Yeah I was planning to get a set although if they won't be useful once I do the SAS swap, it might not be worth my $ to buy a set just for a few months of use.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Yeah I was planning to get a set although if they won't be useful once I do the SAS swap, it might not be worth my $ to buy a set just for a few months of use.

I have them bolted to the side of my ARB instead of hooks, they are very solid. But with the SAS and tube bumper there's not much use for them on yours. Actually, are you planning to remake your front bumper or do something different with the SAS? I assume the current bumper bolts to the existing holes, some of which will be obscured with the front bracket.

 

[AxleIke]

Well, up to you. I've used those D hooks attached to the frame to tow, winch, snatch, etc...

I used a D shackle through the D hook to either a strap or a winch cable. They bent a tad over the years, but worked fine. Even snatching out of snow. I still use those babies all the time. IMO, far stronger than they are made out to be.

 

[DouglasVB]

Just got back yesterday from doing Medano Pass and Hayden Pass over the weekend. The original plan was to go to Ouray but work intervened and we couldn't leave until Saturday.

I've gotta say... I'm impressed with what the new-to-me tires were able to cope with going over Hayden Pass. The west side has some pretty significant ledges (for my experience level) that we went up in the rain. I once again ripped off the drivers side front mud flap. A few zip ties will fix that up again. Sliders would have made me less nervous on some of the bigger ledges. I came pretty close to crunching my door sills a few times. I'll see about getting them welded on in the next week or two, schedule permitting.

Key to me getting over some of those ledges was clutch control while holding RPMs elevated and steady. Heather only once asked if she should be getting worried. Great success!

I'll post photos sometime this week from that little trip on the "trip reports" area. The one photo I don't think I have that I wish I did have is the Subaru WRX buried up to its belly pan in sand past the "point of no return" in the sand dunes. They were in too deep for me to be able to help without possibly damaging their car. I notified the park service to get a tow truck out there.

Related to this weekend: I think what we did could be called "overlanding?" Is that the right term? Travel to see stuff and 4x4 as well? Whatever it's called, I like it.

 

[DouglasVB]

Over the weekend I helped out Dave K. with a front axle swap on an 80 series land cruiser. That made me feel MUCH more comfortable with understanding the basics of a solid axle suspension system (although I know the 80 series uses coil springs while the swap I'm planning to do will use leaf springs). In a few months as Dave gets all of the other axle swaps done that he needs to do, I'll have a high pinion differential for my front axle as well. Score!

 

[AxleIke]

Related to this weekend: I think what we did could be called "overlanding?" Is that the right term? Travel to see stuff and 4x4 as well? Whatever it's called, I like it.

That is called camping. If you spend several tens of thousands of dollars on stuff you use to go to the KOA, that is called over landing. You also need a wiffle ball bat!

(For those who overland, this is a joke)

 

[DouglasVB]

That is called camping. If you spend several tens of thousands of dollars on stuff you use to go to the KOA, that is called over landing. You also need a wiffle ball bat!

(For those who overland, this is a joke)

So you're saying overlanders do stuff like this? http://www.douglasvanbossuyt.com/2010/08/04/arlie-beach-campervan-concentration-camp/

 

[DaveInDenver]

If you spend several tens of thousands of dollars on stuff

That's glamping. But ever since getting an Engel I'm happy to be so, if that's what we do.