96 FZJ80 Oil/Coolant Consumption

KC Masterpiece

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I would also check your rad cap. When I got my 80 I was dealing with mystery coolant loss for several months. Convinced myself it was the HG but my hydrocarbon tests kept coming up clean.

I noticed after shutdown witb a warm engine I was getting bubbles in the coolant res. Turns out my rad cap that appeared to be fine was the culprit. The cap would not allow the system to pressurize so it was always operating at ambient pressure. When the water pump stopped after shutdown coolant in the passages would boil and vapor would release through the rad cap and into the reservoir. If the radiator inlet hose is not firm when warm, you have a pressure issue.

Good luck with diagnosis. Hope its a $15 fix.

I will also add that my 80 has consistantly burned a halfish quart every 5000 for the last 5 years. 4 as a daily. I thought that was normal working the engine a bit hard.
 
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LARGEONE

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Isn't there a crude test you can do to test a weeping HG? I think you can have someone REALLY REV the engine at high RPM and look for little bubbles being pushed into the overflow res. Obviously you need fluid in the overflow and ensure the tube is submerged...pull the cap leaving the tube submerged and look inside while someone else revs the crap out of the engine.

At least I think I've heard of this being done...
 

SteveH

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Isn't there a crude test you can do to test a weeping HG? I think you can have someone REALLY REV the engine at high RPM and look for little bubbles being pushed into the overflow res.

I did this on my '08 RX350 that had mildly overheated in the past, and it bubbled (clearly, but not heavily), but a Blackstone oil analysis showed 0% coolant, and the vehicle ran just fine and didn't use coolant or overheat, so I concluded that the head gasket was not blown. And, yes, I had a new radiator cap, and tried it with another cap.

I think the 'bubbles in the overflow bottle' would clearly show a blown headgasket, but 'some bubbles' may not clearly indicate this. It's a very imprecise test, for a number of reasons.
 

LARGEONE

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Good to know @SteveH. The oil analysis is something I do about every third oil change for two of my vehicles...mostly because I extend oil cycles slightly and just want to know that I'm still OK to do so.
 

DaveInDenver

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It also seems like there's an assumption that there shouldn't be any bubbles in the coolant. I'd have thought spinning the water pump at high speed would cause some cavitation, like running a kitchen mixer or something. I always figured that's why the cooling system burps in and out at the radiator cap. The system is pressurized but it's not sealed air tight.
 
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LARGEONE

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I guess this test could still be valuable if its shooting bubbles like crazy. If its just bubbling tiny bubbles, then could be fine.
 

rover67

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With my 80 I could hold the motor at like 3-4k rpm and see a constant stream of (small) bubbles coming out of the dip tube in the coolant reservoir. When I took it apart the HG was intact.
 

AdamKFarmer

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I've decided to just get the head done, I've ordered a bunch of parts from Stevinson and will yank the head when I get back from the holidays.

Also, I haven't looked as some might know. Are the head bolts re-usable? Not TTY I hope.
 

jps8460

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I've decided to just get the head done, I've ordered a bunch of parts from Stevinson and will yank the head when I get back from the holidays.

Also, I haven't looked as some might know. Are the head bolts re-usable? Not TTY I hope.

There is a measurement spec to check the head bolts. The 1fz’s I’ve done have had 1 or 2 borderline ones that I’ve replaced. If you need 1 or 2 I have a stockpile. I also have a stockpile of 1fz head parts if you run into anything weird.

IMG_4485.jpeg
 

ChuckleBuckle

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The HG on my 1997 FJ80 - 40th Anniv. Ed. Began to go at about 170K, and I replaced it at 180K. Symptoms about the same as yours.
From what I understand, that's not uncommon. We are a two old LC family and the other one is about due at 150K.

HG is not a a bad job. I was still building my shop so I took it to Slee - who milled a little off the head, complete valve job, all rubber parts. Very straightforward job. Now at 240K no recurrance of the HG problem. It starts in the morning without the cloud of steam out the tail pipe.
And as a bonus, at 240K that 40th ed. still has more power than it had new.
More power than I expected - I wonder if it has higher compression ratio now?
rScotty
 

powderpig

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Lots of great info and misconceptions about how a enigne works. Blackstone does a good job of showing stuff in the oil (if coolant makes it to the oil ) Not all head gasket failures make it to the oil. Not all HG failures show a full failure in the gasket material or Fire ring(Marco description). The bubble test is one of many tests I use to verify a HG failure. The great thing of the Bubble test is that it can Indentify a issue with little to no cost. If I see a bubble test these days I will do a coolant gas test with the Tester from Napa or equilivant(has become a great cheap tool, in the old days I used a snap on combustion gas tester, $400-$500, not a cheap tool to acquire).
so the theory, High pressure that excapes the fire ring will build up into coolant. this will create bubbles in a fully warmed up engine, pressure builds to 13-15PSI before escaping creating bubble(before that it moves fluid out of the radiator) and the Overflow bottle is partially full. It will show a stream of bubbles after the engine is fully warmed. When the Fire ring in the engine can not contain the Combustion pressure(1500+ PSI or more at a 3000 RPM no load)This is way more than a compression test can tell you by doing a compression test or Leak down test. It can escape the fire ring and warm the fluid until the cooling system can not cool the engine well enough.
About the only way an engine does get a steady stream of air when running (beside the combustion), is the water pump seal, or any place that is on the suction side of the water pump (yes, maybe a crack in the hose or loose hose clamp on suction side of the pump. Cavation can be a issue in a poorly designed water pump, would not suspect it from a Toyota design, but possible I guess. Look at Subaru on it water and oil pumps pulling air)
I have seen many head gasket leaks that show not full blowing of the material. But what I have seen is blacken fire rings,, or part of the ring black and black tracks (on head or block) leading to the coolant passage. So, if removing the head, looking at the gasket , and the block and head. If you do not see the full circle of the bright fire ring(or impression) on the cylinder head or block. Then it is not sealing. After cleaning up the block, I find the fire ring sealing area several .00x lower than the rest of the block. Toyota Specs on this is .002 give or take(there is always fudge factors, feeler gauges having their tolerances and such). Only way to get rid of these depression is milling the block. I hand sanded a block(DA sanding device) once in a remote trip to smooth out block enough to get it to what I would be happy with(Grease on pistons to catch debree)
If you have the tools,, like a bore scope, coolant system pressure testing system to pressure test the system. Remove the spark plugs
pressure test the system 18-20 PSI, and run a bore scope into the spark plug holes. If you do have a coolant leak you can not find, this is a test to find it.
Seeing leaks between the block heand an gasket is an interesting site.

We have quite a few newer cheaper tools to diagnose coolant issues. This bubble test I have used since the 1980"s working for Cummins in
Alaska. It is a good first tool for me., If I see a steady stream of bubble. I know it can only be a couple of things, But if it is a strong steady stream,
I know it will almost 99% of the time it will be a head gasket fire ring issue.
But that is not to say, I have not seen catastrophic failures of 1fz head gaskets. Steam out the side of block or tail pipes and full oil pans of coolant. Engines are engines, they fail. and they fail differently all the time.
I know of 4-5 different remakes of the Toyota head gasket for the 1FZ(I am sure there were some for a few other engines that Toyota made).
The first gen 1FZ Head Gasket had the sticky material to bond to the head, and not any other metal to the fire ring to stablilze the fire ring. When the head moved, it broke the bond to the Head gasket. Later designs bonded the HG to the Block, allowing the head to move(heads move on all engines). There was more metal that was off the fire rings to the bolt holes to stablize the fire Ring so it did not move, especially at #1 , #6 Cylinders. Then there was hole size at the back of the block, Things changed there to control the fluid move thru that part to help control the EGR Hot EGR gasses thru this area. If your engine has never been apart, that head gasket is a ticking time bomb(and I have been saying this for years, and you may still have it. really poor design.)

Good luck with it all. And this is My opinion based on my 45+ years of experience of gas and diesel. working on the 1FZ since 1998.
 

Inukshuk

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In 2011 I was with @powderpig when he pulled the head off my 1993 1FZFE at 226,000 miles and showed me what it looked like. I'd had a slow HG leak at #6 that caused loss of enough cylinder wall cross hatching that I sourced a donor bottom end (with 170,000) and to that we mated a remanufactured head. Now at 369,000 running strong as ever and still not consuming oil.
 

RayRay27

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Good call Jackson, I order all the pieces for that loop at the same time, I did order the valve and pipe as well, just in case.
If you end up doing the PHH, you may want to consider running just a straight piece of Gates hose and do away with the metal tube. I found it to be way more manageable instead of trying to put a 4 inch section of hose in between the block nipple and the metal tube.
 

AdamKFarmer

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Okay, that took much longer than I anticipated, fishing the wiring harness through the intake was not fun at all. I have the head on the bench to finish stripping down to get to Gunn. Anything to check while I'm here? Cylinders look decent to me, if a bit cruddy.
1000010551.jpg
 

Telly

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I agree with @Pz10420 . No better time to do it. I've always clean my piston domes on my previous HG jobs. Your pistons have very little carbon buildup so it should be an easy procedure. Check MUD for the best procedure to prevent debris from collecting in the rings and scoring the cylinder walls.
 

AdamKFarmer

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If you are at this point I would replaced oil pump gasket and front main seal and rebuild that oil cooler.
Good call, I bought the entire engine overhaul gasket set and I'll check if that's in there. Does rebuilding the oil cooler just mean replacing the o-rings and gasket?
I agree with @Pz10420 . No better time to do it. I've always clean my piston domes on my previous HG jobs. Your pistons have very little carbon buildup so it should be an easy procedure. Check MUD for the best procedure to prevent debris from collecting in the rings and scoring the cylinder walls.
Good call! Thanks for the advice.
 

Pz10420

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Good call, I bought the entire engine overhaul gasket set and I'll check if that's in there. Does rebuilding the oil cooler just mean replacing the o-rings and gasket?

Good call! Thanks for the advice.
I dont think the kits come with those parts. But yes, it is essentially just replacing the gaskets and the crush washers I believe. I cleaned mine real good in an ultrasonic if you have access to something like that, but there are plenty of good ways to clean it up. Use partsouq.com if you havent yet to get a good look at the parts you need for it.
 

jps8460

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I dont think the kits come with those parts. But yes, it is essentially just replacing the gaskets and the crush washers I believe. I cleaned mine real good in an ultrasonic if you have access to something like that, but there are plenty of good ways to clean it up. Use partsouq.com if you havent yet to get a good look at the parts you need for it.

Can confirm, the kit does not come with those parts.
 

AdamKFarmer

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Thanks all! I dropped it off at Gunn this morning. Jackson I appreciate the chat, saved me from making multiple trips for sure! Also, I did end up shearing off the VST that is in the bottom of the head, I even bought some line wrenches and still just destroyed it. Found in on ebay for $70 which is cheaper than Stevinson by about $30.
 
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