96 FZJ80 Oil/Coolant Consumption

AdamKFarmer

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Hey ya'll. I have a 96 FZJ80 with about 250k miles I purchased in Pueblo about a year ago, had to replace the cats and a few small things and it's been running pretty well since. I have noticed a growing coolant consumption issue (no leaks on the ground) and it burns oil, needs a top up every month or so. I did a compression test today to bring some data to the party

Cylinder 1: dry 140 wet 142
Cylinder 2: dry 145 wet 160
Cylinder 3: dry 148 wet 160
Cylinder 4: dry 140 wet 150
Cylinder 5: dry 110 wet 130
Cylinder 6: dry 145 wet 145

The numbers seem okay, even above the minimum from Toyota (except for 5) The plugs, aside from needing to be replaced, looked pretty good, no coolant on them that I could tell.
The suspicious cylinder is cylinder 5, indicating worn rings or cylinder walls. So, what is the next step? Leakdown test? Or is the engine at the rebuild (or replace) stage? Thanks!
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RayRay27

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Hey ya'll. I have a 96 FZJ80 with about 250k miles I purchased in Pueblo about a year ago, had to replace the cats and a few small things and it's been running pretty well since. I have noticed a growing coolant consumption issue (no leaks on the ground) and it burns oil, needs a top up every month or so. I did a compression test today to bring some data to the party

Cylinder 1: dry 140 wet 142
Cylinder 2: dry 145 wet 160
Cylinder 3: dry 148 wet 160
Cylinder 4: dry 140 wet 150
Cylinder 5: dry 110 wet 130
Cylinder 6: dry 145 wet 145

The numbers seem okay, even above the minimum from Toyota (except for 5) The plugs, aside from needing to be replaced, looked pretty good, no coolant on them that I could tell.
The suspicious cylinder is cylinder 5, indicating worn rings or cylinder walls. So, what is the next step? Leakdown test? Or is the engine at the rebuild (or replace) stage? Thanks!
View attachment 124569
When you say top up the oil, how much is that? A quart or 5 quarts? Have you changed the oil lately? Does it look soupy or smell like coolant? Is it foamy at all?

I usually have to put a quart in every so often depending on how much I drive my 94 80. What type of oil are you running?
 

AdamKFarmer

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When you say top up the oil, how much is that? A quart or 5 quarts? Have you changed the oil lately? Does it look soupy or smell like coolant? Is it foamy at all?

I usually have to put a quart in every so often depending on how much I drive my 94 80. What type of oil are you running?
Not exactly sure, but usually not more than a quart or so. Oil looked good when I changed it, dark but not suspicious. I use Mobil 1 5w30 high mileage.
 

Pz10420

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My 1fz had pretty similar numbers to yours and when I switched to Rotella 15 40 my oil consumption went down quite a bit. As far as losing coolant though you may wanna do a head gasket check unless you know it's been done recently.
 

AdamKFarmer

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My 1fz had pretty similar numbers to yours and when I switched to Rotella 15 40 my oil consumption went down quite a bit. As far as losing coolant though you may wanna do a head gasket check unless you know it's been done recently.
What test would that be? A leak down? I just did a compression test.
 

HDavis

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What test would that be? A leak down? I just did a compression test.
There is a test you connect to the radiator, and it changes colors if exhaust gasses are present.
 

SteveH

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My '95 showed similar numbers and very low oil pressure at 250K miles. If the engine runs well and has enough power for your needs (and has no other fatal issues) I would not rebuild it for compression reasons.
 

AdamKFarmer

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My '95 showed similar numbers and very low oil pressure at 250K miles. If the engine runs well and has enough power for your needs (and has no other fatal issues) I would not rebuild it for compression reasons.
Steve, good to know..I guess my thoughts are. Do I replace the HG and the other seals/gaskets or should I rebuild it? No point in half measures?
 

Johnny Utah

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My 1fz has 204k miles on it. I bought mine a little over a year ago. I have been mildly concerned with the overall health of the engine. More curious than concerned I guess.
The two oil changes I've done have not indicated any issues. But I do have to add oil occasionally. Maybe 1-2 quarts over the course of a year and 4K miles. It doesn’t loose coolant, it runs fairly well and doesn’t get too hot. But still, I wanted to know more about the overall health.
I sent an oil sample to black stone labs and got a good report back. That doesn’t really tell the whole story but it put me at ease. I think having an oil sample analyzed and doing the oil in the coolant test would give you a good idea of the condition of the head gasket.
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MonPetiteShoe

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Data, Data, Data. x2 on the Blackstone labs, and I'd look at checking your coolant for combustion gases. It sounds like you're on it.
I would also suggest picking up a ScanGauge II, and or UltraGauge for even more telemetry on your engine health (If you don't already have one).

I suspect it may just be a HG issue. You might have a small leak somewhere that's pulling your coolant. That's on-brand for the 1FZ at your given milage. See if you got gas in your coolant.
The oil consumption may be something similar/different.

Background:
I spent about 2 years 'limping' a 1FZ-FE around the country. It had 293k miles and burnt a quart of oil every 800-1000 miles. It probably started ~260k miles, but didn't really manifest until the cats clogged up. I didn't notice any coolant consumption away from nominal. I did experience overheating, and would back off when water temps came up on ~212 degrees. Compression test was within limits. I never did a leak down test.
I had considered everything from rebuilding the engine to swapping a 1HZ into it. The fix was simpler (and cheaper) than that.

Symptoms/Causes:
My primary cause for the oil consumption was the valve stem guide/seals in the head. Oil follows the channels to the cams, leaks down the valve stems, gets burnt during combustion. It was a lot of oil being burnt... Like a lot a lot. Enough to think it was an issue with the pistons/ring/low-end. The new fuel/air/oil mixture burnt my cats up pretty good, probably burnt a hole in my Y-pipe, and created a thermal mass that wasn't being exhausted as it should.
Oil consumption was significantly worse when I was moving slow, i.e. 4Lo. If there was significant highway driving, the pressure from combustion would keep the oil where it was supposed to be, and I would see a 'reduction' in oil consumption, though it was still significant. (See 800-100 miles above.)
I experienced some overheating problems, and went through the cooling system to replace the thermostat, the waterpump/radiator fan. This narrowly improved my issues. I saw maybe a 5 degree drop in my water temps, and would still limp up Eisenhower at 35 mph, creeping up on high temps. I couldn't escape the thermal mass being created by the fuel/air/oil mixture. Even with the cats 'modified,' (Allegedly, your honor,) it ran pretty rough, and would get hot with extended uphill climbs.

The fix:
I picked up a spare head, had it rebuilt at Gunn (for ~$800) and had the old one swapped out. It gave me a chance to look at the cylinder walls. They still had cross hatching at 293k miles. There was no indication that the rings were going/gone. It's a stout engine block given normal conditions.
Since the head rebuild, I go through a quart every 2500-3000 miles. Negligable, as that's my service interval. My running temps have dropped from 195 to 172 degrees, and I have access to power that I never believed a 1FZ was capable of.

If you're leaning into a head rebuild, I've got the one I pulled from mine. It'd be a good donor. Gunn does phenomenal work.
Let me know if you've got questions, or need me to elaborate. I've been kickin' this can down the road for a bit.
 

AdamKFarmer

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Data, Data, Data. x2 on the Blackstone labs, and I'd look at checking your coolant for combustion gases. It sounds like you're on it.
I would also suggest picking up a ScanGauge II, and or UltraGauge for even more telemetry on your engine health (If you don't already have one).

I suspect it may just be a HG issue. You might have a small leak somewhere that's pulling your coolant. That's on-brand for the 1FZ at your given milage. See if you got gas in your coolant.
The oil consumption may be something similar/different.

Background:
I spent about 2 years 'limping' a 1FZ-FE around the country. It had 293k miles and burnt a quart of oil every 800-1000 miles. It probably started ~260k miles, but didn't really manifest until the cats clogged up. I didn't notice any coolant consumption away from nominal. I did experience overheating, and would back off when water temps came up on ~212 degrees. Compression test was within limits. I never did a leak down test.
I had considered everything from rebuilding the engine to swapping a 1HZ into it. The fix was simpler (and cheaper) than that.

Symptoms/Causes:
My primary cause for the oil consumption was the valve stem guide/seals in the head. Oil follows the channels to the cams, leaks down the valve stems, gets burnt during combustion. It was a lot of oil being burnt... Like a lot a lot. Enough to think it was an issue with the pistons/ring/low-end. The new fuel/air/oil mixture burnt my cats up pretty good, probably burnt a hole in my Y-pipe, and created a thermal mass that wasn't being exhausted as it should.
Oil consumption was significantly worse when I was moving slow, i.e. 4Lo. If there was significant highway driving, the pressure from combustion would keep the oil where it was supposed to be, and I would see a 'reduction' in oil consumption, though it was still significant. (See 800-100 miles above.)
I experienced some overheating problems, and went through the cooling system to replace the thermostat, the waterpump/radiator fan. This narrowly improved my issues. I saw maybe a 5 degree drop in my water temps, and would still limp up Eisenhower at 35 mph, creeping up on high temps. I couldn't escape the thermal mass being created by the fuel/air/oil mixture. Even with the cats 'modified,' (Allegedly, your honor,) it ran pretty rough, and would get hot with extended uphill climbs.

The fix:
I picked up a spare head, had it rebuilt at Gunn (for ~$800) and had the old one swapped out. It gave me a chance to look at the cylinder walls. They still had cross hatching at 293k miles. There was no indication that the rings were going/gone. It's a stout engine block given normal conditions.
Since the head rebuild, I go through a quart every 2500-3000 miles. Negligable, as that's my service interval. My running temps have dropped from 195 to 172 degrees, and I have access to power that I never believed a 1FZ was capable of.

If you're leaning into a head rebuild, I've got the one I pulled from mine. It'd be a good donor. Gunn does phenomenal work.
Let me know if you've got questions, or need me to elaborate. I've been kickin' this can down the road for a bit.
Thank you for the thoughtful response. I had to replace the cats/O2 sensors and the ABS tone ring so I have a wireless gauge with the app. Shows me pretty useful data. Sounds like your truck was a little more worn out than even mine! Mine runs so well that the coolant/oil consumption is concerning. I think I'm leaning towards a HG issue as well. I'll buy a combustion gas tester here this morning and test it and report back. Let me know how much you're looking to get from that donor, I also have other vehicles I could drive while mine is under the knife, so it's not the end of the world not to grab it. Thanks again!
 

DaveInDenver

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Adding to Josh's excellent info that you can do a cooling system pressure test that can help further nail down HG or not. I have one you'd be welcome to use but it's in Grand Junction... But I think it's pretty safe to assume the HG is in your near future from what you've said. That's only because of the coolant loss. It's not a consumable fluid so if it's being lost and it's not going outside that only leaves into the combustion chamber or oil journals. You can live with it making steam but into the oil is a major risk to ruining the bottom end and making a PITA situation into catastrophic.
 

MonPetiteShoe

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Thank you for the thoughtful response. I had to replace the cats/O2 sensors and the ABS tone ring so I have a wireless gauge with the app. Shows me pretty useful data. Sounds like your truck was a little more worn out than even mine! Mine runs so well that the coolant/oil consumption is concerning. I think I'm leaning towards a HG issue as well. I'll buy a combustion gas tester here this morning and test it and report back. Let me know how much you're looking to get from that donor, I also have other vehicles I could drive while mine is under the knife, so it's not the end of the world not to grab it. Thanks again!
My issue was gradual. If yours came on very suddenly, then that's another point towards the HG.
Test the oil via Blackstone. That'll give you a good baseline from where you're departing from, and they'll let you know if you've got coolant where it ain't spose'd to be.

I sent a PM about the head. Just looking to pay it forward, and keep another Toyota running smooth.
 

AdamKFarmer

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Okay, brought some data and ordered some Blackstone tests kits, will test my 3 trucks for fun. I didn't get any combustion gases in the fluid, so that's good. The pressure test DID reveal a leaky hose. It's i the back, behind the head you can see it in the 3rd picture below, very swollen and brittle. So, my current plan is to do a little tune up, replace spark plugs and wires, probably those hoses on the head and the PCV as there seems to be oil in that channel with the wires, I can't tell if it's recent or not. I'll change the oil 15W40 (just like the 40 ha!) and see if my problems persist. Anything else stand out (minus the gorilla glue a PO used to attach the grille, I have a replacement)?




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PXL_20231217_233548524.jpg
 

jps8460

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Okay, brought some data and ordered some Blackstone tests kits, will test my 3 trucks for fun. I didn't get any combustion gases in the fluid, so that's good. The pressure test DID reveal a leaky hose. It's i the back, behind the head you can see it in the 3rd picture below, very swollen and brittle. So, my current plan is to do a little tune up, replace spark plugs and wires, probably those hoses on the head and the PCV as there seems to be oil in that channel with the wires, I can't tell if it's recent or not. I'll change the oil 15W40 (just like the 40 ha!) and see if my problems persist. Anything else stand out (minus the gorilla glue a PO used to attach the grille, I have a replacement)?




View attachment 124580View attachment 124581View attachment 124582View attachment 124583
Probably time to replace the pesky heater hose (PHH) while you’re in there. If the upper heater valve hoses are old and brittle, the PHH is for sure on its last leg. At a minimum, give it a look see.

The PHH leaks right onto the trans harness connector. Worth a deoxit cleaning while you’re in there if the PHH is leaking.
 

AdamKFarmer

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Probably time to replace the pesky heater hose (PHH) while you’re in there. If the upper heater valve hoses are old and brittle, the PHH is for sure on its last leg. At a minimum, give it a look see.

The PHH leaks right onto the trans harness connector. Worth a deoxit cleaning while you’re in there if the PHH is leaking.
Good call Jackson, I order all the pieces for that loop at the same time, I did order the valve and pipe as well, just in case.
 

Inukshuk

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Adam - you are getting solid advice here. When my HG want at 225k I used an untouched donor bottom end that had 170k. Almost 150k later still zero oil consumption.

Oil consumption is almost always the valve guide seals (as Josh said).

A small coolant leak can lose you a surprising amount of coolant. If you don’t know hose ages, replace em all. A good hose pick ( like Astro 9502 Hose Removal Hook Set) https://a.co/d/35mxX72 and hose clamp tool substantially simplify the job. (I have this Astro Pneumatic Tool 9409A Hose Clamp Pliers https://a.co/d/iTIk0ea)

I think you are on the right track.
 

AdamKFarmer

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Adam - you are getting solid advice here. When my HG want at 225k I used an untouched donor bottom end that had 170k. Almost 150k later still zero oil consumption.

Oil consumption is almost always the valve guide seals (as Josh said).

A small coolant leak can lose you a surprising amount of coolant. If you don’t know hose ages, replace em all. A good hose pick ( like Astro 9502 Hose Removal Hook Set) https://a.co/d/35mxX72 and hose clamp tool substantially simplify the job. (I have this Astro Pneumatic Tool 9409A Hose Clamp Pliers https://a.co/d/iTIk0ea)

I think you are on the right track.
Thanks Dan! I think this will solve the leak. I'm still on the fence of just doing the head now rather than a wait and see method.
 

Inukshuk

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Thanks Dan! I think this will solve the leak. I'm still on the fence of just doing the head now rather than a wait and see method.
That will produce the best outcome and you can refresh many things "while in there"
 
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