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Which FRS/GMRS handheld radio(s) to buy?

DaveInDenver

Rising Sun Ham Guru
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You can program many of the HAM radios to TX on GMRS with a small hack.
Please don't perpetuate MARS/CAP TX modifications to ham radios for use on GMRS.

Undoubtedly this is far from a major enforcement area of interest for the FCC, especially in a low power backcountry situation, but it is expressly illegal and doesn't reflect well upon ham radio, where our valuable spectrum and historic leeway in technical and operational matters is always under pressure.

If the current selection of legal GMRS radios doesn't suit (which I do agree is quite lacking) please consider using old cast-off surplus Part 90 commercial radios instead. Plus they by-and-large do meet most of the technical requirements so aren't as obvious to identify on the air.
 

Inukshuk

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Please start a Radio Law thread for discussion of radio use. :oops:
This is Matt's "Which FRS/GMRS handheld radio(s) to buy?" thread encouraging purchase of FRS/GMRS units.
"Radio People" turn users off to having radios by making it sound so damn scary and complicated.
In reality it is simple, easy, safe, and easy to be legal.


It is NOT illegal to modify, or have modified, your radio to transmit outside bands approved for your particular license. I paid HRO to MARS-CAP my FTM-400 so I could use my FTM-400 in Mexico on off-road racing frequencies. The modification itself is not illegal. You can buy the MARS-CAP mod at HRO for $34.95 https://www.hamradio.com/detail.cfm?pid=71-002335 You can buy the MARS-CAP mod at GigaParts for $149.00 https://www.gigaparts.com/gigaparts-mars-mod-level-10.html. HRO and GigaParts are not breaking the law.

GigaParts says: "It is the responsibility of each radio operator to make sure they are in compliance with FCC regulations regarding frequency usage, power output, and accepted equipment."

Our radios already receive on bands to which they cannot transmit. They have a small component that prohibits broadcast on frequencies outside the bands for which they are sold. I find it frustrating to think that I might have my life in danger somewhere and a radio capable to reaching out but for a grain of sugar sized resistor. I found a $35 mod for use in Mexico was preferable to buying a separate race radio (I did have to buy a different antenna)

Also, unless you know circuit board soldering/de soldering this is not a task to try at home and you will void your warranty unless it is professionally done. If your only thought was to use it for FRS/GMRS, just buy a FRS/GMRS radio.

Now please, back to what to buy. This issue has been addressed and will stay in this thread for all to see.

PSA: DO NOT BREAK THE LAW. :)

(It is illegal for non-attorneys giving legal information or advice :devilish: That is called the unlawful practice of law. Do we all really want to go down every rabbit hole?)
 

J1000

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Yeah it's not illegal, it's up to the HAM operator themselves to know what they can and cannot do in accordance with the regulations. I think it's a perfectly reasonable and logical thing to do as it is perfectly legal to use the mods in time of emergency and it is always legal to listen on the channels.
 

rover67

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Boulder, Co
I deleted my post. It wasn't specific enough.

My issue is the perpetuation of a behavior that facilitates activities that you're not supposed to do. Stating that you can modify a radio to work in GMRS or FRS frequencies seeds the thought that it's no big deal to not only do that, but operate the radios in those frequencies. Especially the way in which and the context in which the statement is made.

People that don't know any better read anywhere and believe they can do things and then as a result unintentionally make mistakes that can be illegal.

I don't want to see our forum be the place that that kind of info gets disseminated.
 

Inukshuk

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*edit* apparently the T71VP3 that we were using is a FRS radio. I don't really know. They work well enough. Midland is doing an exceptionally poor job with marketing these items. It is super hard to tell which are GMRS and which are FRS.

Update 9/24: Midland rep confirms the T71VP3 is only FRS. Power is a max of 2watt. Very disappointing to learn. I have asked for specific information on what GMRS handhelds they offer. I would swear their website previously said FRS/GMRS. Still a nice FRS radio, but we need more power of GMRS!

The two I have are Midland GXT Pro series GXT1000VP4. It says 50 channels and up to 36 mile range. I have never used them so can't attest to the range. Looking them up on line they are GMRS radios.

Sure seems to be GMRS. Still a bummer they cannot be plugged in direct while using.
 

gungriffin

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Update 9/24: Midland rep confirms the T71VP3 is only FRS. Power is a max of 2watt. Very disappointing to learn. I have asked for specific information on what GMRS handhelds they offer. I would swear their website previously said FRS/GMRS. Still a nice FRS radio, but we need more power of GMRS!

It is rather impressive how well they worked especially with only 2w. It would also explain some of the reason why the 275 that you were using was getting so much more range even on only 5w. I look forward to trying a 5w hand held. If it offers even double the range of the T71, I personally struggle to see the benefit of the more expensive mounted options.

This radio certainly looks interesting. The two pack comes with a charger that allows for DC charging in the cradle. Romer mentioned that this was included. Not a direct plug, but at least it allows for hassle free 12v charging.
https://www.amazon.com/Midland-GXT1000AZ-Channel-Two-Way-Waterproof/dp/B001WMFYH4?th=1
 

J1000

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Yep that's pretty amazing for 2 watts and that little stubby antenna let alone also from inside a vehicle.
 

Inukshuk

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A roof antenna makes all the difference. We have seen that with HAM HT's (maxing out at 5W). For all of us in Rising Sun I think we'll want a mobile GMRS. For Cruise Moab attendees, I think a FRS HT on hi power (2W) will be fine for a trail run.
 

Coyote

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Many thanks to @Inukshuk for loaning out handhelds & @Hulk for bringing them up to the Steamboat Color Cruise this last weekend.

Matt gave me a T71VP3 to use at the start. I was approximately middle in the convoy and was tasked with relaying messages from the leader to the tail - and for the most part this was a good system. We did get stretched out at various points where I could communicate clearly with one but not the other but this was expected.

All in all I found the handheld to be more than adequate for a day of mixed terrain with high & low spots, corners and obstructions etc. and a train of rigs moving at approximately the same speed with spreads ranging from close to far. I was using it very often in transmitting and had it on all day. The only issue was the battery indicator showed that we had approx. 2 ( or it could have been 3 ) bars left when it jumped from battery low to battery dead in the blink of an eye.

Both Matt and I thought the unit would last the day, so I didn't grab the USB cord from him at the start. So on a single charge, it didn't last more than 6 hours with regular use ( which was a bit disappointing ) but had it been plugged in to my usb charger I don't think there would have been any issue at all. When it gave up we were within 45 minutes of camp so no reason to panic.

Day 2 I borrowed a different radio to try from the trail leader ( baofeng I think it was ) which lasted through the day ( albeit a much shorter day ) but the reception was not quite as good for some reason and the volume was not as loud.

I liked the T71VP3 but in hindsight should have snagged the charging cable from the get go and plugged it in for worry free use all day. I'm not sure if the amount of transmitting I was doing used more battery life or not, but if I were relying on the charge alone for the weekend it would have been a big problem. I didn't investigate on whether or not I could pop in fresh batteries, but maybe that would have been another option.

Thanks all!
 

Inukshuk

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Great report - thanks!

Another backup power source for these are AA batteries (regular or rechargeables). What were lead and tail using?
 

Coyote

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You know, I assume the lead & tail were on some variation of that Baofeng one I was given on day two because I saw a few floating around but I'm not 100% sure - Lead was juggling various comms to reach different sections of the group ( cb and ham ) - Good point on the batteries -- I was in the middle of a transmit when the T71VP3 gave up the ghost - and then just kept driving since we were close, then I didn't think about it until the next day when I surrendered the powerless handheld back to Matt - I was keen to try something else to compare or it would have been a cable grab and or battery swap. Thank you for lending those out! I had #2.
 

Inukshuk

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"a GMRS license will now cost significantly less than before. Up to now the application fee for a GMRS license was $70. With this Report and Order, the new GMRS license fee will be only $35, which is $15 less than the proposed fee and half the cost of the fees previously charged by the FCC. The license is still valid for 10 years and covers an entire family."

 

DaveInDenver

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"a GMRS license will now cost significantly less than before. Up to now the application fee for a GMRS license was $70. With this Report and Order, the new GMRS license fee will be only $35, which is $15 less than the proposed fee and half the cost of the fees previously charged by the FCC. The license is still valid for 10 years and covers an entire family."

The new fee schedules were published March 19, 2021, in the Federal Register.


Effective date is usually 30 days after publication, which normally would mean April 19, 2021. Which is the stated effective date.

But in Part II, Ordering Clauses, paragraph 44 says "It is further ordered that Commission’s rules are amended as set forth in in the back of this summary, and such rule amendments shall be effective 30 days after the date of publication in the Federal Register, except for §§ 1.1102, 1.1103, 1.1104, 1.1105, 1.1106, 1.1107, and 1.1109, which require notice to Congress and also require certain updates to the FCC’s information technology systems and internal procedures to ensure efficient and effective implementation. Sections 1.1102, 1.1103, 1.1104, 1.1105, 1.1106, 1.1107, and 1.1109 will not take effect until the requisite notice has been provided to Congress, the FCC’s information technology systems and internal procedures have been updated, and the Commission publishes notice(s) in the Federal Register announcing the effective date of such rules."

So the actual effective date is still TBD. Suppose if you're holding off on a GMRS license this uncertainty is bad, if you're looking to get or update an Amateur ticket this is good. For their part the ARRL's lawyers say "sometime this summer" is their expectation.
 
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Inukshuk

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FYI:
Chase and I had a call with a Midland rep today and discussed wattage.
None of their handhelds go over 2.8 watts. Those 2.8 watt handhelds are the GXT which are not USB chargeable.
All handhelds are limited to 1/2 watt on channels 8-14.
Handhelds I have loaned to people are the T71VP3 which he agrees is the best handheld for our use, even though limited to 2 watt.

The "micro" mobile MXT275 is capable of 15 watts and does not have channel 8-14 because Midland did not want heir users to have a "degraded" experience.
The "micro" mobile MXT275 is "low power" on 1-7 and "high power" on 15-22.
I have had great results with the MXT275 and its included mini-mag antenna and better results with the mag-mount 3db NMO stubby "ghost" antenna.
 

DaveInDenver

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Don't see that anyone's mentioned the BTech GMRS-V1 in this thread. It's been mentioned I think in others.

It's GMRS type approved (FCC ID is 2AGND-GMRS-V1) and appears capable of 5W. It can receive out of band (e.g. listen to ham) but can't transmit beyond GMRS.

As seems to becoming standard there doesn't seem to be any way to charge it directly from a vehicle other than a 12V adapter for the drop-in base they include.

https://www.miklor.com/COM/Review_GMRS-V1.php
https://seesharpdotnet.wordpress.com/2017/11/14/btech-gmrs-v1-review/

Being derived from their UV-82 means it can use the same accessories, for example the BL-8L 3600 mA-hr monster battery (this is twice the capacity of included battery).

index.jpg


And the battery eliminator to allow it to run full time from a cigarette plug (replaces the battery, doesn't charge it).

index2.jpg
 
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FJCDan

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When is the group buy on Midland radios happening Daniel? I did pick up a pair of T71VP3's and they worked great on the snow run. Would like to to put a mobile unit in the truck.
 

Inukshuk

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When is the group buy on Midland radios happening Daniel? I did pick up a pair of T71VP3's and they worked great on the snow run. Would like to to put a mobile unit in the truck.

Stay tuned! @DanielChase and I are working on it
 

FJCDan

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On stand by, Thank you Sir.
 

Shuksan

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Stay tuned! @DanielChase and I are working on it
I have been interested in an MXT275 for a bit, although I think it is silly that we have to buy multiple FM radios because radio X can only Tx here and radio Y is only allowed to Tx here, when they do the same thing and one of them is perfectly capable of transmitting in the other ones frequency range. But alas lets follow this arbitrary law so they don't come take our frequencies.
 

DaveInDenver

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None of their handhelds go over 2.8 watts.
There's an underlying reason for this and why 2 watts was determined to be the max radiated power on FRS. Above 2W RF exposure becomes a concern. In fact in the FCC test documentation submitted for the GXT1000 shows at 2.85 watts the radio approaches the maximum allowable exposure for general population/uncontrolled use.

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