Welder Help Educate me. I know it isn't an easy thing to do :)

[gr8fulabe]

While not in the price range being discussed here, ESAB is developing some great welders. My friend was the development manager for the EASB Rebel and I did some over flow Industrial Design on the project. ESAB did a lot of research with users and really fine tuned the electronics to make beginner welders - good welders and good welders - great welders. There is a lot of control over the machine and once you know what you are doing with the controls you are off and running.
Miller welders are good too. My only experience with them is at a company that makes "Physical Vapor Deposition" PVD coating equipment. Nothing like seeing 16 Miller welders all linked up together to blast a rod of coating material with lightning in a zero atmosphere chamber. It is basicly what is used to put that chrome finish on your Delta faucet.

Thanks!

Are they more expensive, or less, than what is being discussed heee? My only reference is seeing them & thinking they looked like a good value, if they were a quality piece of equipment. I like the idea of the machine making me better than I really am! Just like our cruisers!

 

[SteveH]

Have several cans of cheap walmart brake cleaner and rags to clean the oils off the raw metal so yoie weld doesnt get contaminated.

BEWARE - if you heat chlorinated brake cleaner with a torch or welder, you will generate Phosgene gas, which is a nerve gas. If it doesn't kill you, you might wish it had: https://www.brewracingframes.com/safety-alert-brake-cleaner--phosgene-gas.html

'Cheap brake cleaner' (the extremely flammable kind) isn't the best thing to have around a welding table, nor is chlorinated brake cleaner. If you use any solvents, be sure they are non-chlorinated and keep the rags and bottles far from the welder. And of course, keep a fire extinguisher nearby.

I'm not always 'Mr. Safety', but in this case, it matters a lot.

 

[SteveH]

Remember that a gas cylinder setup for a new welder will likely cost $300+, so add that to the $6xx price you see.

I found a used Miller 175 with a giant (5' tall) Argon tank and a cart for $550 about 10 years ago. That setup would be $1200+ new. It takes a while to find a good used welder, but you can save pretty big money when you do. A buddy of mine found a Lincoln 180 with a tank for $600 in the last year.

Sorta related:
I started welding with regular old AC arc welders as a kid, and have a 'GE Farm and Home welder' from the 1950s for which I paid $40. There are times (poor fitup, corrosion, thick metals) that a regular arc welder works well. Besides, it makes you very thankful that wirefeed welders were invented. So, if a neighbor offers you a cheap old 'tombstone' welder, take him up on it. You can't have too many welders or welding options, can you? You can also weld inside a trailer tongue (for instance) when your welding rod is 12" long. You cannot do that with a wire feed welder.

 

[Hulk]

Ken, you can come try my Miller 211. If I didn’t buy Miller, I probably would have gone Hobart.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Out of curiosity, what does everyone think about ESAB (I think) welders? I think they are newish, but supposedly pretty nice. I’m in the same spot as Romer. Want to learn more, and once we have our garage, I want to buy a nice welder.
Thanks!

ESAB is kind of the Lincoln of Sweden, started by a man named Oscar Kjellberg who invented the flux-coated electrode which essentially created what we know as stick welding now. It's a well known name globally in welding. The only possible question from a consumer standpoint is getting eyes on one before buying and they won't be in Home Depot but any decent welding supply will be a distributor.

 

[BritKLR]

Have several cans of cheap walmart brake cleaner and rags to clean the oils off the raw metal so yoie weld doesnt get contaminated.

BEWARE - if you heat chlorinated brake cleaner with a torch or welder, you will generate Phosgene gas, which is a nerve gas. If it doesn't kill you, you might wish it had: https://www.brewracingframes.com/safety-alert-brake-cleaner--phosgene-gas.html

'Cheap brake cleaner' (the extremely flammable kind) isn't the best thing to have around a welding table, nor is chlorinated brake cleaner. If you use any solvents, be sure they are non-chlorinated and keep the rags and bottles far from the welder. And of course, keep a fire extinguisher nearby.

I'm not always 'Mr. Safety', but in this case, it matters a lot.

Thanks and good point. It applies to so much that can become dangerous around welding.

FWIW. The Walmart stuff is non-chlorinated but, it should have been mentioned. thanks.

 

[Romer]

so thinking about the Hobart 210. I can get it at Murdocks. Regular price is $899 and if you sign up to their super saver club you get 10% your first purchase. Not sure what that club is but if I understand it would put the price about $810 vs $1350 for the Miller

https://www.hobartwelders.com/equipment/welders/mig-gmaw/handler-210mvp-mig-welder-m00229

That is $500 less than the Miller. The downside is its twice the weight, so definitely need a cart. You have to set the controls via the table vs the auto controls which several reviews said they prefer to set manually as its easy to look up. It is dual voltage like the Miller 211.

Some say more reliable as Transformer vs inverter power and less circuitry for the auto features, but I havent found anything to substantiate that

Being dual voltage and more power maybe worth $200 over the Lincoln 180 or Hobart 190, but not sure. So I think I have it narrowed down to Lincoln 180, Hobart 190 or Hobart 210 needing to decide if power and dual voltage is worth the delta in cost. All things equal or even close I would go with the Miller, looked like some great rebates a few years ago, but no discounts and price has also gone up making the delta greater than it was at the beginning of 2019 when it was just over $1000, now $1350 is best I can find

 

[DaveInDenver]

Auto setting is in my experience rarely ideal so I wouldn't use that as a major deciding feature personally. Individual machines can vary a little, too. That's why I suggested a notebook. Keep a log of what settings works best with your technique and machine(s).

Transformer vs inverter is a hot button. As an EE I see no reason to prefer one over the other. Inverters made in the past decade or so have made great leaps in reliability up and down the market but it's possible reliability of entry level machines will still favor transformers.

Both the machines I have are inverters and I haven't seen anything show-stopping that would make me choose differently, though I would have a hard time disagreeing that transformer machines aren't more forgiving and a little smoother.

 

[Romer]

Well, no sense in lolly gagging. I went to Murdocks as they had pretty much the same price as anyone else for the Hobart 210 MV. There are a few that were $70 cheaper, but signing up for their new free sale membership program is what 10% off the entire purchase. So I got the whole shebang of what I needed including a small canister of Gas. Since I dont expect to be welding much for the near term, more after retirement, that should last me. Got the Hobart auto helmet, Hobart Cart, Pliers, Gloves, welding Jacket, extra wire, tips gel, brush and polishing attachment for my die grinder. It all came out to less than the Miller would have, Although I know that one is better. The sale person did tell me the Miller is better as she welded for a living before she moved to Colorado. She said she still welds two or three projects a week. She also is a fan of Lincoln, almost talked me out of the Hobart

My 6 gauge 3 wire to complete my 220 wont be here for a week, but I can now work that bolt with the 110V. Need to rearrange a few things to make room for the cart

 

[BritKLR]

Congrats! Pile of fun!

 

[Romer]

 

[DaveInDenver]

Nice haul. The 210MVP is a really nice machine, plenty decent all metal drive. A nice little extra is that it can take a spool gun if you want to do aluminum.

Now get to watching videos. Jody at Welding Tips and Tricks has a lot of good information.

https://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/

 

[3rdGen4R]

Anyone want to buy a Drone Kidding .. . Kind of

For the right price on that drone it would be hard to say no because of all the cool features it has.

As far as welding goes I appreciate your thought you put into this post and I have wanted to do the same things, or have the ability to do those things. I also just don’t ya e the words for some of the questions you were able to ask in such a easy to understand or relatable way.

 

[Romer]

For the right price on that drone it would be hard to say no because of all the cool features it has.

As far as welding goes I appreciate your thought you put into this post and I have wanted to do the same things, or have the ability to do those things. I also just don’t ya e the words for some of the questions you were able to ask in such a easy to understand or relatable way.

Thanks Phillip, I think that comes from my job often coming into areas I am unfamiliar about that I am asked to review and have to ask questions to help give me a baseline

Like having never welded before, reading the manual and watching setup videos, I am assuming the reason it doesn't ignite when you are wire feeding is because the contact tip is out. Then I saw a video with a guy who put the tip on and feed the wire a bit more without any ignition. Anyone care to comment?

On the Drone, I am tempted. I really want to use it but just haven't gotten around to it. We can chat off line, but let me think about it first as I havent decided.

 

[J Kimmel]

If I’m following what you’re asking it’s the ground. If the power is on and it’s grounded when you pull the trigger it lights.

good choice I have the larger Hobart version, it’s maybe 17 years old. I’ve replaced the gun once and otherwise I’ve built a lot of stuff with it...just a little practice here and there and you’ll get lots of use from it

 

[DaveInDenver]

Like having never welded before, reading the manual and watching setup videos, I am assuming the reason it doesn't ignite when you are wire feeding is because the contact tip is out. Then I saw a video with a guy who put the tip on and feed the wire a bit more without any ignition. Anyone care to comment?

Do you have the ground clamp connected to the piece you're trying to strike the arc?

All electrical welding (as opposed to using a flammable gas) has some basic common things. In the case of MIG (and stick) welding you have a relatively low voltage (approximately 15 to 20 volts) forcing a large current (tens to hundreds of amps) to flow across an electrode into the pieces being joined. Two things happen, first is the current creates intense heat sufficient to melt metal and second the electrode itself melts (is consumed) into the weld as filler.

Traditional SMAW - stick or arc welding:

MIG is essentially the same with a couple of improvements. One being the electrode is a spool of wire instead of sticks. This allows you to run continuously without needing to swap them so often. When you run flux core wire a spool vs sticks is really the only difference.

The other improvement with MIG is you can add a pocket of gas rather than relying on flux to shield the molten metal from contamination from the air. But electrically it's the same.

The part in your hand, the electrode holder or MIG gun, is only half the circuit. The ground clamp connects the welder (power source) to the other half so that when you bring the electrode (wire) into contact you complete the circuit.

You can feed wire all day but it will only start welding when it comes into contact with the metal where the ground clamp is connected.

The contact tip in the MIG gun is necessary for the power source to remain in contact with the wire itself. It's just sort of a snug bushing in the MIG gun.

 

[Romer]

No I havent turned it on yet. It was more curiosity watching videos on how to use it. The ground makes sense to complete the arc and close the circuit via a return path. I was just thinking things through before I use it today.

I appreciate both of your explanations

 

[HDavis]

Well, no sense in lolly gagging. I went to Murdocks as they had pretty much the same price as anyone else for the Hobart 210 MV. There are a few that were $70 cheaper, but signing up for their new free sale membership program is what 10% off the entire purchase. So I got the whole shebang of what I needed including a small canister of Gas. Since I dont expect to be welding much for the near term, more after retirement, that should last me. Got the Hobart auto helmet, Hobart Cart, Pliers, Gloves, welding Jacket, extra wire, tips gel, brush and polishing attachment for my die grinder. It all came out to less than the Miller would have, Although I know that one is better. The sale person did tell me the Miller is better as she welded for a living before she moved to Colorado. She said she still welds two or three projects a week. She also is a fan of Lincoln, almost talked me out of the Hobart

My 6 gauge 3 wire to complete my 220 wont be here for a week, but I can now work that bolt with the 110V. Need to rearrange a few things to make room for the cart
View attachment 89170

Hey, thats where I got my Hobart 140, good to know they seem to still have great deals on Hobart. Im certain you will be happy for years to come with your purchase!

 

[Romer]

Thinking about it then, to have a work surface to weld smaller stuff where you don't clip the ground to it, the surface would need to be metal touching the object you want to weld you clip the ground to. I can see the need to have a work area for working small stuff

 

[BritKLR]

Thinking about it then, to have a work surface to weld smaller stuff where you don't clip the ground to it, the surface would need to be metal touching the object you want to weld you clip the ground to. I can see the need to have a work area for working small stuff

Generally speaking, if you just clamp the small item in a vice and attach the ground clamp to the vice you can get a decent circuit/weld. There is also a ton of useful, folding welding tables on the market. I have an old Black and Decker "Shopmate" folding bench I use.