Toyota EV Lineup

[3rdGen4R]

To be clear, this is illegal under the magnuson warranty act. A manufacture can’t chose to void a warranty unless they can prove the work done by a third party was the issue to t he warranty. Apple has denied Kevin it warranties for years, and also has tried to stop repair by third parties. The simple truth is that consumers need to make electric car companies actually follow the law.

 

[3rdGen4R]

Philip. I changed a battery in an iphone recently for my in-laws and not via apple with no issues so not sure if that is correct. Not throwing rocks, just saying I didnt have a problem

Ken,

You can change it. But apples own polices say you have to get a out of warranty coverage to cover an issues with the phone moving forward. Look up apples out of warranty coverage.

 

[3rdGen4R]

Everyone Is a Genius: Apple Will Offer Parts and Tools for DIY Repairs | iFixit News

A day we never thought would come: Apple will offer parts, tools, guides and software to DIY fixers in early 2022. There are, of course, some catches.

www.ifixit.com

This is just a summed up article on what Apple has done. I fix things Apple won’t fix all of the time.

 

[3rdGen4R]

Redirect Notice

 

[Romer]

Hey, I hate Apples proprietary stuff is why we have Androids. The iphone was easier for my in-laws.

I do assume when ever I modify a vehicle or any other item and it isnt modified using the manufacturers reps that it it voids the warranty for those items. But limited to those items. When I modified my diffs, the diffs are no longer warranty items but the rest of the drive train is. The difference with electronics like a phone or EV is they are more integrated systems vs a driveshaft isolates and connects the differential to the rest of the drivetrain

I would expect on an EV if I modify anything between batteries to wheels that voids the warranty, but if I put on bigger tires or add a bumper, that shouldn't. At least that is my expectation. Now physically controlling the computer to shut off would be wrong in my opinion

 

[mcgaskins]

To be clear, this is illegal under the magnuson warranty act. A manufacture can’t chose to void a warranty unless they can prove the work done by a third party was the issue to t he warranty. Apple has denied Kevin it warranties for years, and also has tried to stop repair by third parties. The simple truth is that consumers need to make electric car companies actually follow the law.

Nothing is illegal about putting conditions on warranties, and literally every OEM does this. In fact, here is page 15 from the Toyota manual which has similar if not stronger language. Both say improper service or repair can void the warranty, and that makes sense for a lot of reasons. One of which is safety - a brand new to market vehicle with a high voltage architecture can't safely be worked on by someone without the proper training, and an owner's safety may also be compromised by driving a vehicle that has been improperly serviced.

 

[3rdGen4R]

Nothing is illegal about putting conditions on warranties, and literally every OEM does this. In fact, here is page 15 from the Toyota manual which has similar if not stronger language. Both say improper service or repair can void the warranty, and that makes sense for a lot of reasons. One of which is safety - a brand new to market vehicle with a high voltage architecture can't safely be worked on by someone without the proper training, and an owner's safety may also be compromised by driving a vehicle that has been improperly serviced.

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You should read t he act. Saying without explicitly what will and will void the warranty and using someone that is not the manufacture could void the warranty is illegal. You should really read the act.

 

[3rdGen4R]

Hey, I hate Apples proprietary stuff is why we have Androids. The iphone was easier for my in-laws.

I do assume when ever I modify a vehicle or any other item and it isnt modified using the manufacturers reps that it it voids the warranty for those items. But limited to those items. When I modified my diffs, the diffs are no longer warranty items but the rest of the drive train is. The difference with electronics like a phone or EV is they are more integrated systems vs a driveshaft isolates and connects the differential to the rest of the drivetrain

I would expect on an EV if I modify anything between batteries to wheels that voids the warranty, but if I put on bigger tires or add a bumper, that shouldn't. At least that is my expectation. Now physically controlling the computer to shut off would be wrong in my opinion

So if you don’t have access to parts, and third parties don’t have access to parts, any work to said part is voided. This is why Apple has been forced into after years of petioning access to parts is coming, because they are afraid of legislation. The electronic makers are the same, they refuse to sell parts to consumers and third party repair. Ford, Toyota and others for years have been required to let people besides the dealership work on there products. Look into what people have to go through with John Deer. It’s all the same, the right of ownership being taken away. And lots of time being justified through safety just like t above post.

 

[3rdGen4R]

Here are more people talking about the same issues I've bought up. Good luck when your Rivian has an issue getting it repaired in a timely fashion. It would appear they have no concern that a consumer be able to repair said vehicle without using the manufacture for the repair. Just imagine if Toyota sold you a vehicle and wouldn't let you get it serviced anywhere besides the dealership.

Fixing your Rivian - Right to Repair?

I know this may sound way too early but I have nothing better to do. I was watching this video on difficulties of fixing a Tesla by someone else (or yourself) and that made me concerned about how Rivian will handle the right to repair issue? Would they be nicer and respect the laws more? Or we...

www.rivianforums.com

 

[3rdGen4R]

Nothing is illegal about putting conditions on warranties, and literally every OEM does this. In fact, here is page 15 from the Toyota manual which has similar if not stronger language. Both say improper service or repair can void the warranty, and that makes sense for a lot of reasons. One of which is safety - a brand new to market vehicle with a high voltage architecture can't safely be worked on by someone without the proper training, and an owner's safety may also be compromised by driving a vehicle that has been improperly serviced.

View attachment 100340

The difference is that other manufactures don't turn off services when they deem you did something to your own vehicle to be unsafe. Also, other manufactures let others work on vehicles without voiding warranties, because by law they cannot do that. I've been watching right to repair for over 6 years now, and I will say that Rivian has made no effort to be transparent with how they want to practice repairs, modifications, warranties, selling parts directly to the consumer, I would state you need to present evidence they will be different. So far it seems they have no intention to let you actually believe you own your vehicle.

 

[mcgaskins]

Sorry, but the EV market takes away ownership and before anyone decides to buy one I wish they would consider this.

Curious how you feel about Toyota surprising owners that if they want to keep using the remote start feature they bought on their car they will now have to start paying $8 a month to keep using it. How does the ownership concept play out in this scenario?

Toyota owners have to pay $8/mo to keep using their key fob for remote start

Feature requires subscription even though it doesn’t use connected services.

arstechnica.com

 

[3rdGen4R]

You want to see if I'm consistent? At least you can just put an aftermarket part in your car to get away from it if you want. Essentially, they are charging you for the infrastructure they are offering. If you modify the vehicle by putting a remote start into the car, they aren't threatening to deem the car unsafe and turn it off. They are not saying you can't have updates to software if the car isn't deemed unfit regardless of if you are willing to pay for it or not. They are not disabling a car because in the name of safety which essentially saying you don't have rights to use the product you own, as you see fit. This isn't hard to see why Rivian is following Tesla's model in most things. At the end of the day, they know most consumers won't care until they have to pay for a $9,000 dollar repair that could cost $500 if you could acquire the part by yourself. John Deer has had this model for years and it's been hurting farmers all over the US. As the momentum picks up to EVs we'll have our day in court as well. Just look at what's taken place with Subaru with Starlink in Massachusetts.

Subaru Disables StarLink in 2022 Vehicles to Comply With Right to Repair Law

This comes after an industry trade group argued doing so would be a "practical impossibility."

www.thedrive.com

 

[mcgaskins]

We’re just going to have to agree to disagree @3rdGen4R on this one. The good news is we as consumers have never had more excellent vehicles to choose from both new and used, so there is something out there for everyone’s preference.

 

[3rdGen4R]

We’re just going to have to agree to disagree @3rdGen4R on this one. The good news is we as consumers have never had more excellent vehicles to choose from both new and used, so there is something out there for everyone’s preference.

Sure! And hopefully the EV world with all the hype actually gives consumers the right over the property they own.

 

[ScaldedDog]

Interesting discussion, sort of. I have no interest in any EV, and a 6800lb Ridgeline is as useful to me as a tricycle.

The interesting part is the business model. @3rdGen4R, we may not agree on what makes a good tow rig , but you are spot on with your argument. The only thing is, you (and I) aren't really the target market for any of these EV outfits. Not because of how they are powered (Who cares?), but because they can effectively be marketed and sold as a service, and the world has been convinced that is what want it wants. Like all things that are sold hard, the idea sounds appealing, but the financial benefits of the model accrue to... wait for it... the owners. Just like always. (Witness the market cap of the aforementioned 6800lb Ridgeline as evidence.) Work on stuff? Fix your own junk? A rapidly diminishing percentage of the population has the ability to do so, and fewer still are interested. Your Deere example is a great one, and farmers are fighting a righteous fight. The problem is, the average farmer is pushing 60, and Deere's problem will be solved when this generation ages out and is replaced by corporate farms who are only too happy to procure their equipment as a service. For a while.

The same thing is going on in the enterprise computing world, my former business. The cloud providers have taken over, and customers are spending enormous sums hiring MSPs to manage their unexpectedly high costs. (Who could have guessed?) The hardware OEMS have responded by creating as-a-service vehicles of their own and, just like the EV marketeers, are selling them, hard. (If you want to make money as an OEM rep, you are either selling your employers aaS model, or you are living on your base.) Why? Because the margins are huge (AWS' gross margins are roughly 60%, dwarfing the margins of any compute/storage OEM), and recurring revenue is king.

Pendulums swing, of course, and this one will swing back, too. I'll be dead or too old to care, and you'll still be working on your by then ancient 4runner. Good on 'ya for doing that. I plan to do the same, as long as I am able. This thread makes my '88 4Runner and '01 Excursion, and even my '14 Jeep, look pretty good.

Mark

 

[Ol' dirty beard]

It’s a start…. Still no EV 70 series truck though. That thing would be bought by ALL the mines, and me.

But I’m interested in the Small Cruiser EV thing and the Tacoma looking truck.

Dan

Redirect Notice

You and I just live on the wrong continent I guess.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Redirect Notice

You and I just live on the wrong continent I guess.

There's electric mining utility trucks in North America, too. Just they look silly, not converted Cruisers unfortunately. Although one wonders if these LC 70 EVs might come in to Canada, too.

Relay - Miller Technology Incorporated

Relay is the next generation of innovation and real world application of the Miller’s advanced technologies. Driven by need and shaped by opportunity, Relay is the result of a demanding creative process to meet the needs of contemporary mining operations. Created to ensure equipment investments...

www.millertechnology.com

 

[DanS]

Redirect Notice

You and I just live on the wrong continent I guess.

Oh I’m watching those. There’s a company doing EV conversions of 70 series for mining uses. In my mind, if I can’t get a new 70 series Ute EV, I’ll just look for a LHD HJ/FJ/HZJ75/79 and import a conversion kit. Should be pretty easy to do, since there’s no internal combustion engine to deal with….

I just need about 100 miles of range for the VAST majority of stuff I do, but I need to handle a steep, rocky hill 100% of the time—which is why an EV 70 series is what I want, somehow.

Dan

 

[DaveInDenver]

A couple of weeks ago I was on a sandy trail in the desert of SoCal and came around a bend and found a roadrunner running right down the middle of the trail, and because it didn't hear us, it just kept running for a while giving everyone in the truck a cool surprise.

You may have inadvertently stumbled on a new market direction for Rivian.

 

[DouglasVB]

There's electric mining utility trucks in North America, too. Just they look silly, not converted Cruisers unfortunately. Although one wonders if these LC 70 EVs might come in to Canada, too.

Relay - Miller Technology Incorporated

Relay is the next generation of innovation and real world application of the Miller’s advanced technologies. Driven by need and shaped by opportunity, Relay is the result of a demanding creative process to meet the needs of contemporary mining operations. Created to ensure equipment investments...

www.millertechnology.com

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I'd drive the heck out of that! 😍