single brake master cylinder change out to dual reservoir

[thenimirra]

I agree that it would be better to buy this piece new, so I've emailed a couple of outfitters to see what they may have available.

After I get this piece, then I will invite everyone over for pizza and beer and installing that part.

 

[Red_Chili]

Stock dual circuit Land Cruiser brake masters had separate reservoirs until about 1980. I have seen a few aftermarket replacements which have the single reservoir and are intended for those applications, but stock is separate. I suppose the shared reservoir on the later units is for lower cost, and perhaps maintenance convenience.

Dual reservoirs definitely would improve the odds!

 

[thenimirra]

rut row....just got through talking with someone with Specter Offroad...he said that it would cost several thousand to try to fit a dual reservoir since when you add up all the other fabrications I would have to do to make it work.

He suggested just doing a complete new brake system with a new single reservoir master, brake showes, lines, and turn drums. And he priced it all out for me too. And they've got it all in stock!

 

[Red_Chili]

Perhaps several thousand using his off-the-shelf parts. No way. Talk to Ige.

 

[wesintl]

My .02 is getting it running the way it is, baseline everything then start modifications. If the res is empty add fluid and see if the master is still good... same with the wheel cyl.


bill, my diesel isn't close to stock at all. My 64 fj40 is all stock (or dealer installed stock) down to the rust and patina. I've in fact added more stock items to it as well. All the mods like late model hub caps have been reversed. I drive with a single reservoir. Scary I know. Definatly stay off the streets on the weekends. Thats when I drive it.

 

[corsair23]

Perhaps several thousand using his off-the-shelf parts. No way. Talk to Ige.

x2...Did we not warn you about SOR

I'm sure there are a LOT of varying opinions on SOR. Personally I have ordered a LOT of stuff from them and have always had great service, they just tend to be on the pricier side of things and shipping cost is always a big unknown. They do tend to be convenient and typically have most of what a 40 owner could be looking for though. My suggestion would be to shop around unless price is not a consideration.

 

[Rzeppa]

rut row....just got through talking with someone with Specter Offroad...he said that it would cost several thousand to try to fit a dual reservoir since when you add up all the other fabrications I would have to do to make it work.

He suggested just doing a complete new brake system with a new single reservoir master, brake showes, lines, and turn drums. And he priced it all out for me too. And they've got it all in stock!

As Bill wrote, that would be with SOR's parts and probably a cruiser shop at $80 an hour shop rate. It can be done for far less. See Steve Helmreich's post a couple back, he did the same thing on a similar rig for far less. Other less expensive options include an adapter (I think Warden's used to sell them for around $100), or Mark Whatley's method which is to cut out the affected section of firewall and weld in a section from a doner parts rig.

I'd have to scroll back to read the beginning of this thread to get the answer to my next question, but I've already started this reply so I will ask: "Has the existing brake master cylinder already been diagnosed as faulty?". If not, I would suggest prioritizing testing and inspecting all the major systems and subsystems to make a list of what actually is faulty, then what probably needs maintenence or proactive replacement (like old brake master), then wish list like paint and cosmetics.

I've already PM'd you about coming down to help out; I also promised Timm I'd help him with his 40 project, but have set aside a weekend day this weekend and next for both of you. Let me know.

 

[Rzeppa]

x2...Did we not warn you about SOR

I'm sure there are a LOT of varying opinions on SOR. Personally I have ordered a LOT of stuff from them and have always had great service, they just tend to be on the pricier side of things and shipping cost is always a big unknown. They do tend to be convenient and typically have most of what a 40 owner could be looking for though. My suggestion would be to shop around unless price is not a consideration.

My experience with SOR is that they have excellent inventory, a super-convenient web site, are super knowledgeable about all things about my old Land Cruisers, Marv and Kay have been wonderful in supporting Cruise Moab, and they are rather on the expensive side of things. But they have a business to run, and have to make a profit. I do not begrudge their prices one iota. If you don't like them, then don't buy from them. But they are an asset to our community and I will continue to buy certain items from them.

Jeff, I love your sig line. I remember when Kipper wrote that and I nearly laughed beer out my nose when I first read that

 

[Hulk]

My experience is that the wheel cylinders may be the only thing you'll need to replace. Maybe the brake shoes if they are worn out or grease soaked. People drove for decades with single cylinder systems. If your parking brake is working correctly, you will have some backup.

 

[corsair23]

My experience with SOR is that they have excellent inventory, a super-convenient web site, are super knowledgeable about all things about my old Land Cruisers, Marv and Kay have been wonderful in supporting Cruise Moab, and they are rather on the expensive side of things. But they have a business to run, and have to make a profit. I do not begrudge their prices one iota. If you don't like them, then don't buy from them. But they are an asset to our community and I will continue to buy certain items from them.

Agreed Jeff and hopefully I didn't come across any other way . You just have to be careful is all. I remember when I bought 2 side apron shims and 6 of the little apron pins. Probably cost <$1 to ship via USPS so I called and asked that the items just be put in an envelope. The part's themselves were less than $10 and shipping ended up being almost the same 'cuz they threw in a free printed catalog . So I don't begrudge SOR's pricing, more their shipping policies/costs

 

[thenimirra]

these are all excellent points. I need to find out what is working and what isn't. I PMed you Jeff and I would love to assist with Timm as well.

 

[daisydog34]

Even though you have gotten a lot of responses I thought I would put in my two cents having just completed this mod tonight!

I did my swap on a '68 FJ40 with stock drums in the rear and disk in the front. I ended up using a master from a '98 taco because thats what I had sitting on the shelf. It ended up costing me about $100, but keep in mind that I had the master, and I work in a metal fab shop and can make my own brackets and what not(although I didn't use any ) Everybody else has covered brake lines and what not, but I do have two points to make.

1. When I did the install I was curious if the dual circuit system would actually function as one would believe. So I plumbed up the front and bled it, left the back unhooked from the drums and tried the pedal. To my amazement fluid came pouring out the rear, and at about half pedal the front disk grabbed and the pedal came to a halt well before the floor. Because of time issues and needing to work on my other rig I ended up driving it around the house and in and out of the drive way many times with out the rear hooked up all the way. Eventually all the fluid came out of the reservoir for the rear, but up until tonight the front still worked just the way it should. Keep in mind when looking at master cylinders that some appear to be a single reservoir system, thus only giving you minimal braking force until you run out of fluid. Mine looks like it has one reservoir, when in actuality it has two, there is a plastic divider inside the reservoir that converts it to a dual system.

2. This is more for the other guys talking in the thread, but I'm wondering if there will be any problems with a later model master that has a residual valve working with the front drum brakes. I could be stupid, but wouldn't that keep the slave cyls pumped up against the drums wearing out the pads quicker?

FWIW in my opinion I would do this mod, my brakes work soooooo much better now than they did before!

 

[Rzeppa]

I ended up driving it around the house

Wow! Awesome house! It must be pretty big! Can I come up there and drive around it some time?

;-)

J/K

Excellent first-hand data point and adds to the collective knowledge!

 

[daisydog34]

The house is gargantuian! I have a rock pile in the entry to do poser shots on!

 

[nuclearlemon]

a master for discs will not work on all drums

 

[Rzeppa]

a master for discs will not work on all drums

True! You have to move a lot more fluid for drums, especially dual slaves like earlier cruisers!

 

[Shark Bait]

BTW, I have most of what you would need to convert to the dual circuit. I'm sure I have part numbers 35, 36 & 76, which go from the master cylinder to the PS frame. I may have #44. I've got a bunch of miscellaneous stuff that I would make you a smoking deal on.

You could use a mini-truck booster, the bolt pattern is the same. In my '69 FJ55 I just picked a spot on the firewall and made the holes to accept the booster.

 

[thenimirra]

sounds great Shark Bait..


I got the chance to see what a dual master looks like this weekend when I saw Timm's FJ 55. He has a power booster in there, but I don't think I will have enough room for a booster in my FJ because I've got the oil thingy (I don't know what the word for that is yet) blocking it. I will only have enough room for an adapter and the two reservoirs.

 

[Shark Bait]

You can buy a kit from Man-A-Fre to relocate your oil "thingy". Then you'll have room.

 

[Hulk]

You can buy a kit from Man-A-Fre to relocate your oil "thingy". Then you'll have room.

Here's a link that actually works.

"For those of you with an E-3/69 Land Cruiser, this kit updates the old style canister oil filter to a spin-on cartridge, making oil changes cleaner and easier. This easy bolt-on conversion comes with either our Neoprene super lines or our Steel Braided lines."

Wes, is this heresy or do the resto gods smile on such an upgrade?