Lift Height Feedback - 2.5" vs 4"

[MountainGoat]

Jesus Scott, that thing looks TALL. 🦒

 

[Smakee]

Jesus Scott, that thing looks TALL. 🦒

😂 Yeah. Its taller than me right now. It’s not gonna stay like that. I’ve got about 600 lbs of stuff ready to go on it/back in it. It’s stripped down to go in for paint.

 

[KC Masterpiece]

Question for @Lefty and @ccslider. When installing your springs did you install them as labeled (i.e. right on right side of vehicle) or in reverse orientation? My understanding is that the dobinsons springs are appropriately labeled for the US market.

 

[Lefty]

I did.

 

[KC Masterpiece]

I did.

Thanks. Any no drastic lean? This question came up on MUD and I contacted David at Dobinsons for clarification. His reply was that they are installed correctly if there is no lean, and if there is lean they should be swapped. Not exactly the answer I was looking for.....

 

[Lefty]

Just realized I didn’t answer the question too clearly, lol. I installed them as labeled with the left on the left and right on the right.

 

[Lefty]

I haven’t noticed a lean. Are you seeing it more in the front or back?

Were your fronts labeled? Mine weren’t so I had to call to confirm that the longer of the two was supposed to go on the left.

 

[KC Masterpiece]

I haven’t noticed a lean. Are you seeing it more in the front or back?

Were your fronts labeled? Mine weren’t so I had to call to confirm that the longer of the two was supposed to go on the left.

I am not noticing a lean either and I installed them as labeled. My fronts and rears were both labeled right and left. I installed them in that orientation. I seem to remember measuring them while installing and the springs marked left were indeed a hair taller.

There is a mud thread going on regarding this and I am sure you know how crazy those can get.

The question is should the be installed in reverse orientation like the OME springs?

 

[ccslider]

I can't remember and dont notice any lean

 

[Lefty]

I am not noticing a lean either and I installed them as labeled. My fronts and rears were both labeled right and left. I installed them in that orientation. I seem to remember measuring them while installing and the springs marked left were indeed a hair taller.

There is a mud thread going on regarding this and I am sure you know how crazy those can get.

The question is should the be installed in reverse orientation like the OME springs?

Interesting. I haven’t seen that thread but definitely know how crazy they can get.

I’m putting on my new bumper tonight so I’ll get new measurements once it’s installed. There are so many variables that can come into play with this. I wonder how many of them replaced their shocks at the same time or went with flexis over the variables or linears....

 

[Lefty]

@KC Matsterpiece I installed my BIOR dual swingout bumper. The rear dropped an inch but there’s no lean. I ordered spacers for the rear to get things back to level and a whiteline rear swaybar to stabilize the ride.

How are you liking your setup?

 

[KC Masterpiece]

@KC Matsterpiece I installed my BIOR dual swingout bumper. The rear dropped an inch but there’s no lean. I ordered spacers for the rear to get things back to level and a whiteline rear swaybar to stabilize the ride.

How are you liking your setup?

I am loving mine so far. Don't feel the need for a whiteline in the rear yet but that may change.

I'm sitting almost perfectly level right now. 23" on the rear and 23 1/4" up front. Curious if I will need spacers when I really load up the rear.

I have noticed a noise since I added the delta arms and it looks like the bumpstops are scraping the inside of the coils up front

 

[Lefty]

Good to hear that you’re liking it! My bump stops are making contact with the inside of the springs and I had an intermittent groaning noise pop up after I corrected the caster with the radius arms. The DC driveshaft solved that issue.

 

[KC Masterpiece]

Good to hear that you’re liking it! My bump stops are making contact with the inside of the springs and I had an intermittent groaning noise pop up after I corrected the caster with the radius arms. The DC driveshaft solved that issue.

Are you mostly noticing the noise when both sides compress at once? I.E speed bumps and dips? I'm debating if I want to pull the coils and try to modify the bump stops for clearance.

I'm currently not running any bumpstop extension up front. Dobinsons reccomends 1/2" which is pretty minor.

 

[Lefty]

I noticed a metal on metal popping sound on compression, but it only happens on one side when the compression coincides with a turn. I have it at Slee so they can double check my work and they’re installing the cone bump stop extensions. That should take care of it (famous last words, lol).

 

[Mendocino]

Sometime we should get a bunch of 80 owners together with all the different lifts and take turns driving each of them. I'm just curious how much different they are from one another. I've been running the Slee 4" lift on my 80 since 2008, and it's still going strong. I replaced all the OME shocks a few years ago.

@DanielChase This would be a great event for the Club to host. I don't have an 80 but would like to participate in this. Maybe we could do this at Slaughterhouse Gulch when the weather is decent and it's open?

 

[r.swany]

@KC Matsterpiece I’d like to see how your stance is with the 2.5” VT set up loaded and unloaded and if you decide to add the spacer. @Lefty and I have gone back and forth on these Dobs springs a lot and the best info we can find is our own trial and error.

l started with the Dobs 3” flexi all the way around with castor correction plates, swaybar drops and the Deta panhard bracket. My stance was great with a 1.5” rise in the rear unloaded with a Shortbus front and Labs dual swing out on the back. Drove perfect on and off trail.

But loaded with RTT, gear, fuel and family it sagged .5” low in back. Bumped the stops quite a bit by the end of the trip. Yuck.

To fix this I installed the Dobs 3” VT in the back and kept the Flexi up front. Now the rear is 1.5” raise unloaded and .5” loaded. Which looks dead level. Still drives smooth on and off road no driveline issues.

We’ve got about 5k so far on this 3” Flexi/VT combo and it definitely appears to be a sweet spot. It’s a smoother ride and allows nearly an inch more wheel clearance compared to the OME 2.5”. But it’s not so tall that it triggers any of the driveline or high center of gravity issues of a 4” that @jps8460 is warning about.

As a direct comparison, my front end with the 3” flexi is 1” shorter than @Lefty with the 3.5” VT. It’s crazy that 1” can make such a big difference but it’s not the first time I’ve heard it.

>pause<

It’s also worth noting that I basically lucked into this setup and it’s 100% not because I know what the hell I’m doing.

@Hulk absolutely we need to get these 80s lined up side by side and do some test drives. Nobody seems to have a clear advice on these newer springs other than “sure go give it a shot” haha. Maybe we can get some data cataloged.

 

[KC Masterpiece]

@r.swany Here is a photo of how the rig is currently sitting. It seem to never find a flat spot to measure but its looking like 33 1/4" front and 33" rear. Those measurements are hub to fender. So far I am really liking the new setup but I have hot had a chance to put it through its paces yet. If anyone knows a moderate trail with some good opportunities to flex out the suspension I may try to get out this weekend. Not sure what is available that isn't snow covered at this point. I also have not made any adjustments to the panhards or the rear control arms yet. I have an appointment for a performance alignment at Specialized Offroad in Frisco in Jan. Overall I am very pleased with the ride height. I really hope the rears don't sag too much when fully loaded. David at Dobinsons told me the VT's were designed to carry weight and should not loose that much height when loaded for a trip.

My 80 is normally pretty heavy in the rear. The RTT is biased towards the back of the vehicle and I have the 4x4 labs in the back with along with a Dobinsons drawer system. My passenger side drawer is filled to the brim with tools and spare parts and that weight is a constant for me. When we load up for a trip I am not sure how much we add to the rear but it can't be that much. Just the kitchen box, clothing, and food usually. I do normally carry 1 jerry full of gas and 2 with water on the rear swingout when we are camping. Having 12 gal of water for a weekend trip makes me feel like royalty. Right now I am planning to just add a spacer to the rear if its sitting too low when fully loaded. I could always upgrade to the 3.5VT but then I would want the 6" shocks to take advantage of the longer coil.

I would also love to get a group of 80s together to do some suspension testing in spring.

 

[r.swany]

@KC Matsterpiece That looks really good! Now let's compare!

For weight I think we're probably about the same. I've got the Shortbus, winch and Labs, and carry tools and recovery daily and the fridge is still loaded. My tent is a little more centered on my rack. But basically I think we're similarly "unloaded trail ready".

In the rear I measure at 34" center to flare with the Dobs 3" VT (Heavy) coils. Which makes sense that you are measuring 33" with the 2" VT (Med) coils. Check.

In the front I measure 33.25" center to flare with the Dobs 3" Flexi. Which is dead on with your 2.5" VT measurement. Both of which are Med coils. Assuming the Fexi are true 3" I think my truck effectively compresses most of the "flexi" rate of the spring which makes me sag down .5" to match your measurement. Check.

It's worth noting here (and I'm sure you already noticed), in regards to the Front Dobs VT springs in general, that there seems to be some inconsistency with how the fronts are described. Some websites list the front VT C97-146VT as 2" and C97-144VT as 3" however the official measurement for the fronts are 2.5" and 3.5" respectively. Not sure why they do this but it creates a full misdirect for guys wanting to dial in these lifts. In regards to why Dobinsons stagger them this way @Lefty and I have scratched our heads and the best theory we can come up with is that they are designed .5" taller in front to account for a heavier diesel engine and heavier expo style bumper for those outback guys.

All in all it seems like you are also in that sweet spot between the 2.5~4. I'll be interested to know if you throw a spacer in the back of the 2" VT or jump to the 3" VT to level things out when you load up. The biggest test you and I need to conduct is a front end flex to compare the 3" Flexi with 2.5" VT. It'll be great to get these on the trail!

 

[KC Masterpiece]

@KC Matsterpiece That looks really good! Now let's compare!

For weight I think we're probably about the same. I've got the Shortbus, winch and Labs, and carry tools and recovery daily and the fridge is still loaded. My tent is a little more centered on my rack. But basically I think we're similarly "unloaded trail ready".

In the rear I measure at 34" center to flare with the Dobs 3" VT (Heavy) coils. Which makes sense that you are measuring 33" with the 2" VT (Med) coils. Check.

In the front I measure 33.25" center to flare with the Dobs 3" Flexi. Which is dead on with your 2.5" VT measurement. Both of which are Med coils. Assuming the Fexi are true 3" I think my truck effectively compresses most of the "flexi" rate of the spring which makes me sag down .5" to match your measurement. Check.

It's worth noting here (and I'm sure you already noticed), in regards to the Front Dobs VT springs in general, that there seems to be some inconsistency with how the fronts are described. Some websites list the front VT C97-146VT as 2" and C97-144VT as 3" however the official measurement for the fronts are 2.5" and 3.5" respectively. Not sure why they do this but it creates a full misdirect for guys wanting to dial in these lifts. In regards to why Dobinsons stagger them this way @Lefty and I have scratched our heads and the best theory we can come up with is that they are designed .5" taller in front to account for a heavier diesel engine and heavier expo style bumper for those outback guys.

All in all it seems like you are also in that sweet spot between the 2.5~4. I'll be interested to know if you throw a spacer in the back of the 2" VT or jump to the 3" VT to level things out when you load up. The biggest test you and I need to conduct is a front end flex to compare the 3" Flexi with 2.5" VT. It'll be great to get these on the trail!

Definitely down to do a front end flex test. Do you have a swaybar disconnect? If not I will be cheating.

Definitely interested to compare the two. Dobinsons steered me away from the Flexi springs and I was told the rates are designed for stock weight rigs.