Official Club Run June 22 - Official Argentine Pass cleanup run

[4RunnerJoe]

i'm planning to ride on Saturday but not camping the night before

 

[MarkEva]

I'm coming but I just got my truck, a 2017 stock Tacoma, so I might be wanting to ride with someone or perhaps someone might like to ride with me to insure I don't do anything too stupid.

 

[Romer]

My Grandkids are coming over Saturday to spend the night. I could have said no, but haven't seen them much last two months. Sorry to pull out, but I really enjoy spending time with them more than I do you all Nothing personal.

Being a Grandparent is the most fun job ever!

 

[Jasonwak]

I got the work done on my rig, I am ready for Saturday! Looking for to my 1st trip with the group!

 

[NotyourmomsWife]

We’re out, might have to make a trip to Houston and if not we have a friends kiddos bday party

Y’all have fun!

 

[MonPetiteShoe]

No fire restrictions reported for CCC.

https://www.clearcreekfire.com/recreation
https://www.clearcreekcounty.us/

 

[rushthezeppelin]

Just looked at trail reports and it's very likely clear up to Waldorf as usual although not many reports in the last month. Sounds like the creek is also high as usual (I'll not be taking that lower road this year though considering the state of my sequoia). I guess we will find out in two days.

 

[Cruisertrash]

@nakman I see FRS #6 on the first post ... anything to going into the GMRS channels for a bit better comms? To me the difference is night and day. If I'm throwing a monkey wrench in the works and need to sit down & shut up let me know!

 

[Crash]

@nakman I see FRS #6 on the first post ... anything to going into the GMRS channels for a bit better comms? To me the difference is night and day. If I'm throwing a monkey wrench in the works and need to sit down & shut up let me know!

Sit down and shut up anyway!

 

[Cruisertrash]

Sit down and shut up anyway!

As I was typing that original post, I KNEW in the back of my mind that you would be along with a "comment"

 

[DaveInDenver]

@nakman I see FRS #6 on the first post ... anything to going into the GMRS channels for a bit better comms? To me the difference is night and day. If I'm throwing a monkey wrench in the works and need to sit down & shut up let me know!

What are you're requesting here? FRS and GMRS share channels 1 thru 22. It's only the eight repeater input frequencies that FRS cannot use.

Drilling down into which channels you'd want to use or avoid on GMRS.

Basically if you're operating a mobile GMRS radio channels 15 to 22 are ideal. Those allow GMRS to use full bandwidth (20KHz) and full power (50W).

Channels 1 to 7 are next in that they allow 20KHz but only 5W.

Handheld GMRS radios are for various reasons limited to 5W, mainly exposure to the user. This is typical of all radios including ones that do not limit power by rule. For example there's nothing that requires a handheld ham radio to only be 5W other than the good sense that putting your face next to 50W or 100W or indeed the legal maximum of 1500W is foolish and potentially fatal.

Finally, you'd want to use 8 to 14 as last option on GMRS since they are limited to 0.5W and 12.5KHz to everyone.

It's generally thought of in decibels, power, range, etc. Power is expressed as 10 log (P2/P1 and usually in either milliwatts dBmW). So power (in dBm) of 5W is 10 log (5/.001) = 37dBm. So 3dB higher than 5W is 10W (40 dBm), 6dB is 20W (43dBm), 10dB is 50W (47dBm).

But you can also easily get 6dB of effective power by going from the rubber duckie (unity gain, e.g. no gain at best and potentially negative gainor what's called attenuation) on the radio to an external high gain antenna without needing to dink with feeding sufficient 12V power to a radio to get 50W. That's free range increase you'd get even at 1/2W of RF power.

Why these numbers are important is you need about 6dB of either power or antenna gain to very roughly double the range two radios can communicate. So you can see to double the range you need four times the power (or antenna gain).

Now you also have to consider that if you use narrow bandwidth of 12.5KHz you also put a significant dent in effective range. That's due to the nature of FM and how much signal to noise you have for the discriminator to work on.

It may not seem like much but increasing occupied bandwidth will allow you to almost double your deviation from +/- 2.5KHz to 5KHz, which will give you around a four times better in signal-to-noise, the change here is squared in the fundamental equations.

This is as or more significant than either transmitter power or antenna gain. Going to the effort to get GMRS licenses but using 12.5KHz bandwidth is like buying a V8 and the first thing you do is pull off 4 plug wires. Then to get performance back you stick a supercharger and nitrous on it (e.g. power and antenna gain), which works but it would be easier to just put the plug wires back on.

 

[Romer]

What are you're requesting here? FRS and GMRS share channels 1 thru 22. It's only the eight repeater input frequencies that FRS cannot use.

Drilling down into which channels you'd want to use or avoid on GMRS.

Basically if you're operating a mobile GMRS radio channels 15 to 22 are ideal. Those allow GMRS to use full bandwidth (20KHz) and full power (50W).

Channels 1 to 7 are next in that they allow 20KHz but only 5W.

Handheld GMRS radios are for various reasons limited to 5W, mainly exposure to the user. This is typical of all radios including ones that do not limit power by rule. For example there's nothing that requires a handheld ham radio to only be 5W other than the good sense that putting your face next to 50W or 100W or indeed the legal maximum of 1500W is foolish and potentially fatal.

Finally, you'd want to use 8 to 14 as last option on GMRS since they are limited to 0.5W and 12.5KHz to everyone.

It's generally thought of in decibels, power, range, etc. Power is expressed as 10 log (P2/P1 and usually in either milliwatts dBmW). So power (in dBm) of 5W is 10 log (5/.001) = 37dBm. So 3dB higher than 5W is 10W (40 dBm), 6dB is 20W (43dBm), 10dB is 50W (47dBm).

But you can also easily get 6dB of effective power by going from the rubber duckie (unity gain, e.g. no gain at best and potentially negative gainor what's called attenuation) on the radio to an external high gain antenna without needing to dink with feeding sufficient 12V power to a radio to get 50W. That's free range increase you'd get even at 1/2W of RF power.

Why these numbers are important is you need about 6dB of either power or antenna gain to very roughly double the range two radios can communicate. So you can see to double the range you need four times the power (or antenna gain).

Now you also have to consider that if you use narrow bandwidth of 12.5KHz you also put a significant dent in effective range. That's due to the nature of FM and how much signal to noise you have for the discriminator to work on.

It may not seem like much but increasing occupied bandwidth will allow you to almost double your deviation from +/- 2.5KHz to 5KHz, which will give you around a four times better in signal-to-noise, the change here is squared in the fundamental equations.

This is as or more significant than either transmitter power or antenna gain. Going to the effort to get GMRS licenses but using 12.5KHz bandwidth is like buying a V8 and the first thing you do is pull off 4 plug wires. Then to get performance back you stick a supercharger and nitrous on it (e.g. power and antenna gain), which works but it would be easier to just put the plug wires back on.

What Dave is saying is if you are or at least some of you are using handhelds, it doesn't matter as you will all be limited to 5W. Work days tend to work better with handhelds as much of it is out of the rig. I have a mobile unit in the cab which I agree is way better, but not everyone has one and you can't carry it with you.

Many of us use HAM for long ranges and I understand many of you don't have that.

Now . . . Back to the run discussion

 

[DaveInDenver]

Solid translation @Romer.

 

[tacomaJoe73]

I'll be coming up the mountain SAT morning.. I'll see you all at the rendevous point @ Silverdale Trailhead. I'll throw in a shovel & my chainsaw, should anyone FS permitted wish to use it. LMK if I should pack anything else.

 

[rushthezeppelin]

Also not camping but coming up Saturday morning.

 

[nakman]

I really don't care what FRS channel is used, and it'll likely change anyway, when you run into other trail traffic.. good topic for the meeting on Saturday morning we can figure it out then.

 

[Yarn Cruiser]

I have some leftover swag from Stay The Trail from the DLAG event last weekend that I will bring tomorrow.

 

[DanS]

Just a heads up for anyone going through Georgetown on Saturday: Saturday is the "slacker run" which is basically a bunch of people running from Georgetown to Idaho Springs on the frontage road (Stanley Road/CR 318). There is a short section of road that CANNOT be closed by the county, and the various app providers absolutely refuse to ever limit routes displayed to their users, so if I-70 traffic is bad they will tell you to take the frontage road, despite that being a terrible, terrible idea.

Please don't. Just give yourselves extra time, and stay on I-70 no matter how slow it is, and plan on Georgetown being a bit of a zoo.

Since @SaintAgatha and I live here (along said frontage road) we're going to head up there as early as we can today and set up camp.

Dan

 

[MonPetiteShoe]

We can stick to Channel 6 for anyone camping tonight. Give a shout when you're heading up the trail and we can walk you on.
We're trying to leave around 3pm.

We're bringing the big awning and some side panels if we need to shelter a bit from the weather.
We're also bringing some firewood.

 

[PVCsnorkel]

@MetalYota and I will be there around 4:30-5, we will be bringing the party!