got a 40 - now it begins

[simps80]

engine assembly continued

once I was satisfied with that,
I put the block half of the bearings in, lubed them up with a lot of lucas assembly lube

I then carefully set the crank in..this junk's heavy

I used the green plastigage (good from .001 to .003 inch) to measure clearance.

the 2f manual calls for No 1, 2, and 3 caps torqued from 90 to 108 and no. 4 torqued from 76 to 94 ft lb.

I split the difference on those two numbers, then pulled the caps and measured the plasticgage.

measurements:
#1 .0015"
#2 .001"
#3 .0015"
#4 .0025

the manual calls for (in inches) .0008-.0017" or .020-.044 mm

I'm worried that #4 is too far out ... but from reading I guess this is bearing manufacturer dependent ...
thoughts?

after that I cleaned up the main journals, and bearings of the plasticgage and reassembled with lucas assembly lube then and re-torqued.

I stayed in the middle of the road, but on #4 I torqued down to 90 ft-lb (still well within the range, but tighter than the plastigage round.

so here's how it sits ready to roll back into the corner for hopefully not that long.
I shrink wrapped the whole thing so I don't have to keep cleaning junk if it sits too long in my dust bowl garage.

 

[simps80]

I also had about 2 boxes of cad plating done...

the stuff turned out pretty nice, too expensive won't be doing any more of that.

so opinions on that #4 bearing question above are welcome.

 

[simps80]

I also pulled the gear as previously mentioned,
then re-sealed the input and output with c-dan toyota oem seals.
surprised how much nicer the oem parts were than these leaking non-oem seals I pulled out of the box.

there's no slop in it so I just re-sealed it.

here's a picture just cause

its all cleaned and painted up now back on the car

 

[MDH33]

you're doing that old 40 justice.

 

[RicardoJM]

The engine block is nice and clean and the plated parts look great.

...I'm worried that #4 is too far out ... but from reading I guess this is bearing manufacturer dependent ...
thoughts?
...

The difference on #4 would worry me - well at least I would want to really understand why it is out of spec. To my thinking, the large width would indicate the clearance is smaller and would restrict the amount of oil flow. Can/did you recheck at a few other (like each 90 degrees) places on the rotation of the crank? With the mains all in and torqued, how does the crank turn? It if is not smooth, now would be the best time to figure it out, DAMHIK.

 

[simps80]

Thanks Ricardo,
I'll try it at every 90 degree like you suggested.

I also didn't test it at the higher torque of 90 ft lb

 

[simps80]

I called Gunn too

toyota says .0008 to .0017

clevite says .0009 to .0044

so my .0025 is well within clevite's range but not within toyota's range ...

hmmm

 

[wesintl]

you should be fine, it's a 2f after all...

 

[RicardoJM]

I called Gunn too

toyota says .0008 to .0017

clevite says .0009 to .0044

so my .0025 is well within clevite's range but not within toyota's range ...

hmmm

Interesting, I assume you have clevite bearings. As the measurement is within their spec., I would be comfortable proceeding. That said, I would also confirm the crank rotates smoothly with no binding/skips.

I know the F engine series employed shims for the mains and recall Jeff Zepp used them to get his main bearing clearances in spec when he was rebuilding the engine that is in Charlotte. I don't believe the shims were used on the 2F. If you really want to hit the spec, perhaps you could source a couple of F shims for the #4 cap and BAM be right in Toyota spec.

 

[simps80]

engine assembly continued

ok I took # 4 off cleaned it up real good, found a couple little specs underneath the cap bearing

torqued it to 86 and had my girls who have much better eyes vote

its .0020 not .0025

also re-orientated the engine stand so the the tube is more centered, so now the rear of the crank is not blocked by the mount...
this allowed me to put the main seal in after letting go of my ocd about #4

now onto pistons, bought some 3/8" fuel line to cover the rod bolts

off to measure ring gap

 

[simps80]

pistons are in

rod bearing clearances were all good just larger than the .051 mm plastigage marking

this looks nice

i was glad to make that progress..my "free time" is non-existent now a days
so its important to make progress when I can.

now shrink wrap time .. its likely another week before I have any time to work on it again

 

[Rzeppa]

Nice work Mike! Only just now seeing this latest stuff, busy with Moab stuff for some reason.

Anyhoo, here are some things to consider: You ALWAYs want the rear main a little looser (more clearance) than 1, 2 and 3 because it has a larger surface area. Like wise, you torque the bolts down less because they're smaller and there's 4 of them. Your 0.0020" should be just fine.

In the real world, your rod bearings are more critical (bolt torque and oil clearance) - they're always the ones to let loose when anything lets loose.

Finally, 2Fs DO NOT use shims, F motors do. When you add a shim, you increase the clearance. We had to add shims when we were assembling the F for my 71 because it was way too tight without any shims and you couldn't even turn the crank.

 

[simps80]

Nice work Mike! Only just now seeing this latest stuff, busy with Moab stuff for some reason.

Anyhoo, here are some things to consider: You ALWAYs want the rear main a little looser (more clearance) than 1, 2 and 3 because it has a larger surface area. Like wise, you torque the bolts down less because they're smaller and there's 4 of them. Your 0.0020" should be just fine.

In the real world, your rod bearings are more critical (bolt torque and oil clearance) - they're always the ones to let loose when anything lets loose.

Finally, 2Fs DO NOT use shims, F motors do. When you add a shim, you increase the clearance. We had to add shims when we were assembling the F for my 71 because it was way too tight without any shims and you couldn't even turn the crank.

so the rod torque spec is 35 to 55 ft lbs according to the 2f manual... why so large a range?
I picked 45 right in the middle ...
anything wrong with that?

 

[Rzeppa]

so the rod torque spec is 35 to 55 ft lbs according to the 2f manual... why so large a range?
I picked 45 right in the middle ...
anything wrong with that?

I never noticed that before, but I do the same, middle of range.

 

[simps80]

engine assembly continued

...got a little bit of time in the garage

got the front end plate (or crank case plate) or whatever other name put on.

used a little permatex sealer on both sides of the OEM gasket. I wouldn't have except the 2f manual actually called for it...

also used the later style tapered torx screws instead of the slotted screws. (torx screw part number 90149-10001)

some 2f's from reading seem to have shorter screws such that the newer torx screws are longer than the original slotted screws. Not the case here, the torx and originals were the same exact length.

"staked" them down in a manner that I think is good.

I then lubed up the cam real good and sloppy then stabbed it with #6 at TDC, which was the most convenient to line up the timing marks (teq logo on OEM crank) and the dot on the new Melling Camshaft.

I staked the oil squirter in two places once I had the hole was straight down at the two gears

Hope to get some more time Saturday at some point to get some more progress done.

Oh btw another lesson learned: when the powder coater coats the inside of the timing cover seal surface ... don't try to pound a seal in there...that little bit of powder coat is enough to not be able to get the front seal in without ruining it. I sanded out the powder on the inside seal surface, waiting on another crank seal now.

 

[Rzeppa]

waiting on another crank seal now.

I have several spares in the garage if you don't want to wait.

 

[simps80]

I have several spares in the garage if you don't want to wait.

thanks Jeff,
won't need it, no time in the garage this weekend may ping you this week

 

[simps80]

engine assembly continued... pump and pan question

the block i'm using is a 78 block

I have both styles of pumps, integrated pickup and the basket style pickup separate from the pump....

6/76 the pumps and pans changed part numbers...

so what I don't know is if the pan below is the later style pan or the earlier style pan ????.

I prefer to use the new style pump cause I have a new one but I don't want to use the 'wrong' pump for 'this' pan..

so is this the "right" pan for the newer style pump? I've searched extensively and can't find a good picture of new style and old style pumps to pan

'old' and 'new' style pumps:

'old' style pickup

the pan

 

[RicardoJM]

Mike, I don't know the answer with certainty, but recall baffle interferance is the issue that would occur with a mismatch. Did you install the new style pump and encounter clearance issues with the baffles of the oil pan?

For what its work, the drain plug on my oil pan is big, i.e. takes a 22mm wrench to remove and I have the old style pump and pickup.

 

[simps80]

i haven't installed it yet, I guess I'll put the new pump on the block then see whats up with the pans...

I have 2 pans from presumably the two motors I took apart (i'm losing track of parts at this point)

and they are the same, the pans appear identical.

but the two oil pumps are different.

and the pans changed with the pumps from what I've read.

maybe i'll just try to bolt it together and see what's what

thanks Ricardo