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Denver engine swap - getting it legal?

Cruisertrash

Rising Sun Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2020
Messages
2,010
Location
Denver
I searched the forum and didn't come up with anything... Can anybody talk to me about the legal and bureaucratic ramifications of swapping in a non-US 60 Series motor into my US 60 Series. Specifically a 2H.

Things I'll likely need to do:
State Patrol inspection
VIN verification
Diesel emissions

I know many of you have non-US vehicles in smog counties, but those have motors original to the truck. I have a hunch that a motor swap would require a couple extra hoops to jump through. I'm currently researching the viability of a possible very poor choice I can make. Or maybe it's a great choice, I don't know yet. Getting the motor, the swap parts, and getting it in is all stuff I've covered with some individuals who really know their stuff (@DanS thanks!), but the legalities are the more murky area to me.
 

Notyourmomslx450

Cruise Moab Committee
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Westminster
I do know it needs to be the same year or newer.
google gave me this stuff real quick, this is kinda old stuff.





best bet is to call Clean air and talk to them.
 

gr8fulabe

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Sep 3, 2005
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1,594
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Boulder Canyon
For starters, I’d honestly suggest not doing a 2h. It is a far cry from the 1hz, and the amount of work is basically the same. Also know that you’ll face annual diesel tests & they run about $75 & up. You’ll have to go get a state inspection (same as import trucks) & get the aircare cert. that tells emissions places how to test it. Then keep that forever & present it when you go to get tested.
 

RDub

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Feb 9, 2021
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Boulder, CO
Diesel emissions test costs are all over the board. I paid $110 this year to the same place in Longmont I’ve gone to for the last six years. Steady increase from $80 the first time through. I’ve heard prices as high as $200 in Denver, although that may be due to vehicle size and engine power. Message is it costs a lot more to get tested, it is done yearly, and is pretty much a money making racket.
 

Rzeppa

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Joined
Aug 24, 2005
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8,242
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Kittredge CO, USA
I'll second going 1HZ versus 2H. The 1HZ is far superior. Bob Bancroft of Oregon put one in his 60, I bet he might be on Mud, he used to be on the LCML. I've met him several times at Cruise Moab and seen his rig.
 

AimCOTaco

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Longmont, CO
I'm keeping an eye on this stuff in Colorado also Jim and what if anything has changed since @Stuckinthe80s got his swap inspected.

I know we have to use all of the original equipment emissions and evap gear on the "newer" powertrain, in some cases you have to use the right transmission but that should only be for the newer stuff with integrated engine and trans controls.

When you google this stuff for Colorado a lot of the links come back to the forum here I've found.

Go wild and keep us posted!!!
 

Cruisertrash

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Joined
Aug 18, 2020
Messages
2,010
Location
Denver
@gr8fulabe and @Rzeppa ... just the two people I was hoping would chime in!

To be frank, yes this 2H presented itself locally, so it's more of an opportunistic thing rather than intentionally seeking out a specific engine. I have been thinking about a 60-correct diesel swap for a couple years now, though. I've thought about a 1HZ or even a 12HT, but either costs more than my entire truck is worth just to obtain the motor, and both are far out of my "budget". I won't even talk about prices on 1HDT/1HD-FTE motors. Also, going with an older engine requires less fuss about modern equipment, ECUs, etc, as @AimCOTaco mentions above - the more complicated the engine, the more complicated it will be at inspection/emissions.

As far as an emissions place goes, I'm friendly with one. Last time I needed a VIN cert they just asked that I bring them lunch. They're also about 100 yards from my shop. I was actually going to buy them lunch tomorrow in exchange for a chat about how to handle this. Abe, I have followed a post on Mud that you were commenting on about the Colorado guy getting his imported truck tested and how his cert was different than your cert for the same vehicle - something about wanting to see a catalytic converter when that wasn't original equipment. At least I think that was you on that thread. I've been trying to familiarize myself with the process for a while now.

Yes, the 2H is kind of the dog of the 60/80 Series diesels. I've talked with three folks that have them now and while they're about as slow as a 2F they get far better fuel economy and have a torque curve that starts lower and runs higher than the 2F. Down the road a bit a turbo giving 3-7psi will "wake the motor up" according to the folks I spoke with, and it won't cause any undue stress on the motor internals. A couple of my Aussie friends have said that's what gets the 2H to pull up long grades at adequate speed. Heck in my 2F I'm taking any paved pass in Colorado at 30mph, tops. Even without a turbo, if I can do that while getting better fuel economy, that's great.

Things I'll have to buy:
Alternator bracket
Alternator/vacuum pump
EDIC or make a choke cable work for fuel control/shut off
Starter

Everything else needed is with the motor, including the radiator, bellhousing, and flywheel. The motor itself doesn't care if it the truck runs on 12 or 24V so I would find 12V accessories that play nice with what everything in my truck already needs. If need be I can go dual batteries and use a solenoid for powering a 24V starter. I'm mostly done collecting things for a dual battery system in my truck anyway - that project has been on deck for a couple months. I have a set of 2H/12HT motor mount perches inbound already because somebody wanted me to provide them a CAD design - that was underway before I even saw this thing for sale. I'd have a set to copy from in other words. Before installing it I'd do new precups and reseal the motor as preventative maintenance. That would give me a chance to look at the rings and ring lands too. The entire thing bolts up to the H42 & transfer case combo I just got done rebuilding. If I go this route, I would have two complete 2Fs to sell to offset costs as well.

So ... I've been thinking about something like this for a while, and this 2H popped up. That's got me more seriously thinking about logistics and the legalese crap is the final step.
 

gr8fulabe

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Joined
Sep 3, 2005
Messages
1,594
Location
Boulder Canyon
@gr8fulabe and @Rzeppa ... just the two people I was hoping would chime in!

To be frank, yes this 2H presented itself locally, so it's more of an opportunistic thing rather than intentionally seeking out a specific engine. I have been thinking about a 60-correct diesel swap for a couple years now, though. I've thought about a 1HZ or even a 12HT, but either costs more than my entire truck is worth just to obtain the motor, and both are far out of my "budget". I won't even talk about prices on 1HDT/1HD-FTE motors. Also, going with an older engine requires less fuss about modern equipment, ECUs, etc, as @AimCOTaco mentions above - the more complicated the engine, the more complicated it will be at inspection/emissions.

As far as an emissions place goes, I'm friendly with one. Last time I needed a VIN cert they just asked that I bring them lunch. They're also about 100 yards from my shop. I was actually going to buy them lunch tomorrow in exchange for a chat about how to handle this. Abe, I have followed a post on Mud that you were commenting on about the Colorado guy getting his imported truck tested and how his cert was different than your cert for the same vehicle - something about wanting to see a catalytic converter when that wasn't original equipment. At least I think that was you on that thread. I've been trying to familiarize myself with the process for a while now.

Yes, the 2H is kind of the dog of the 60/80 Series diesels. I've talked with three folks that have them now and while they're about as slow as a 2F they get far better fuel economy and have a torque curve that starts lower and runs higher than the 2F. Down the road a bit a turbo giving 3-7psi will "wake the motor up" according to the folks I spoke with, and it won't cause any undue stress on the motor internals. A couple of my Aussie friends have said that's what gets the 2H to pull up long grades at adequate speed. Heck in my 2F I'm taking any paved pass in Colorado at 30mph, tops. Even without a turbo, if I can do that while getting better fuel economy, that's great.

Things I'll have to buy:
Alternator bracket
Alternator/vacuum pump
EDIC or make a choke cable work for fuel control/shut off
Starter

Everything else needed is with the motor, including the radiator, bellhousing, and flywheel. The motor itself doesn't care if it the truck runs on 12 or 24V so I would find 12V accessories that play nice with what everything in my truck already needs. If need be I can go dual batteries and use a solenoid for powering a 24V starter. I'm mostly done collecting things for a dual battery system in my truck anyway - that project has been on deck for a couple months. I have a set of 2H/12HT motor mount perches inbound already because somebody wanted me to provide them a CAD design - that was underway before I even saw this thing for sale. I'd have a set to copy from in other words. Before installing it I'd do new precups and reseal the motor as preventative maintenance. That would give me a chance to look at the rings and ring lands too. The entire thing bolts up to the H42 & transfer case combo I just got done rebuilding. If I go this route, I would have two complete 2Fs to sell to offset costs as well.

So ... I've been thinking about something like this for a while, and this 2H popped up. That's got me more seriously thinking about logistics and the legalese crap is the final step.
Honestly, come drive my turbo hj47, and my naturally aspirated hzj73. There is no comparison. One quirk is the higher rpm range on the 1hz. Makes a huge difference, and is something I’d never thought about before getting an Hzj75 a while back. And the 1hz doesn’t have any real electronics to speak of. Not disparaging the 2h, as I do like our troopy. But the 1hz is way better & still in production in some places, so you’ve got decades of parts supplies. If you wanted to consider it we could look around & try to find a combo for you to import. They are way cheaper overseas.
 

Cruisertrash

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Location
Denver
@gr8fulabe I completely believe you that a 1HZ is a better motor. The cost of a used one is double what I’m looking at before freight cost across an ocean. I’d have to replace my transmission, transfer case, and driveshafts to the tube of an additional $3-5k. If it’s 1HZ or nothing, then it’s nothing for me - way, way out of the budget. It’s simply not an option for me.

The two options I can afford are this 2H swap, or rebuild a spare 2F I have, the latter costing more by maybe $1000. Something’s gotta give though, my rings are nearly shot and the head is so carboned up that repeated seafoam isn’t touching it. This 2F is tired.
 

nuclearlemon

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Aug 23, 2005
Messages
8,320
Location
windy wyo
I'll second going 1HZ versus 2H. The 1HZ is far superior. Bob Bancroft of Oregon put one in his 60, I bet he might be on Mud, he used to be on the LCML. I've met him several times at Cruise Moab and seen his rig.
sadly, bob is gone :( that was a great rig. i got a chance to drive it for a week at moab one year.
 

Rzeppa

Rising Sun Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2005
Messages
8,242
Location
Kittredge CO, USA
sadly, bob is gone :( that was a great rig. i got a chance to drive it for a week at moab one year.

OMG! What happened to Bob???

Jim, I didn't realize you'd have to replace the tranny and xfer case, my HZJ75 had just a regular H55F and 38mm split case just like my '87 '60. You are right about the driveshafts on an older 60 though, and I think you have to fab a crossmember too. BVB told me the first month for the longer H42 on USA spec FJ60s was 5/85. I did know a guy that did an H55F conversion on an older 60, certainly a bit more work than a newer one, but my recollection was that my 1HZ/bellhousing could bolt up to any '60 H42, new or old, I seem to recall that it had 3F embossed on it like all FJ60 bellhousings. That truck had a lot of stuff from 60s, like the rear drums used all FJ60 parts, and the steering, front disks, calipers and knuckles was all FJ60 stuff too.

And the 1HZ was normally aspirated and had zero electronics. It did of course have a temperature sender, oil pressure sender and tach sensor.

I know this isn't the right thread for it, but my old H42 that came out of my 60 when I did the H55F conversion is just taking up space on my garage floor, free to any Rising Sun member that needs one.
 

Cruisertrash

Rising Sun Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2020
Messages
2,010
Location
Denver
@Rzeppa The early 60s certainly had their quirks! If I wasn’t aware that the 1HZ would bolt up to a 3F-stamped bellhousing - I had forgotten they were in troopies and was only thinking about 80s. I know after about 1985, most 60s got the 3F bellhousing, even with a 2F. It clocks the H55 shift lever correctly versus the earlier 2F-stamped bellhousing. Unfortunately with this truck being a 1982 I have the earlier one. So a bellhousing would clock my H42 shift lever incorrectly and I’d have to make cuts to the openings in the tunnel. Or get an H55 that I sadly can’t afford on top of everything else.

Really this comes back to the two options in front of me: rebuild a 2F or go to the 2H with a future turbo. Knowing how the legal process would work with the 2H would let me know about the viability of that option.

@nuclearlemon There’s plenty of things I like and don’t like about Wyoming - definitely a bit jealous of how easy it is to register this old junk though!
 
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