Considering a career change

[subzali]

Hey all, so I've been in consulting engineering for almost 20 years now. I have a mechanical engineering degree, am a licensed PE, and engineering was my "default" career, as my dad was also an engineer. I started working on industrial projects - renewable fuels, refining, power, and the last 5-6 years I have been performing a role as a "Project Engineer." This role has me leading a whole project's technical team, which consists of architects, civil, structural, mechanical, fire protection, HVAC, electrical, and controls engineering disciplines. I work alongside a project manager, who is the real "project owner" and deals with most of the client-facing communications and is ultimately responsible for maintaining scope, schedule, and budget. However, my Project Engineering role also brings me into more direct communication with clients, as a sort of "assistant PM." And this is where I have been having trouble lately. We are currently working on one of our biggest ever projects, with a very demanding client project management team, and for the past 6 months or so we have been working to a very demanding schedule, and it seems we are always having challenges with our workforce on the project. Everyone is stretched thin, and a couple disciplines are understaffed and are always on the verge of falling behind on delivery and/or quality. In addition, my PM has had a death in the family so his attention has been spread thin so more load has been transferred to me than normal, including running the client meetings on several occasions, maintaining the schedule, sending transmittals, as well as keeping the technical team's questions answered, issues resolved, and maintaining our quality checking process. In the client meetings, it's almost inevitable that an issue will come up that either a) I don't have a ready answer for, b) when I try to explain, the client shuts me down, says to take it offline, and he sends an email to my boss's boss demanding an explanation. For these and several other reasons I am experiencing great anxiety about every work day. I have been working with my boss and senior management, but so far there doesn't seem to be much we can do except keep fighting and keep pushing on. I have been seeking mental health support as well, which may get me through the immediate crisis, which should wind up in late April per our schedule, but with the prospect of another 15 months of detailed design plus another 2 years of construction before we fulfill our contract with this client, I am looking at other options to get out of this situation.

The other thing that is playing into this is that within the last year I have had some counseling in other areas and part of that was taking a Myers Briggs test and reviewing it with a counselor. According to that test I am an ISFJ, which to me right now means the following:
-I (Introvert) vs. extrovert. I don't get energized by people, so when I have internal team challenges and have to face the client when things are combative, I get extremely drained. I can handle it to a certain degree, but even regular client meetings cause me unease at any regular time.
-S (Sensing) vs. Intuitive. I am not strongly intuitive, so I have to take cues from my environment. So when I am challenged and have to think on my feet, or when tasks are unclear, roles are undefined, etc. it takes a great amount of energy for me to work my way through that, and often I am not very successful when put into those situations.
-F (Feeling) vs. Thinking. This is the big one that I have been thinking about a lot lately. I always thought I was unemotional and thinking. But my counselor, after talking with me, identified me as a Feeler more than a Thinker. And I think he's right. I don't have "one feeling" to get hurt, like my client has admitted he has, I do get emotional, and it's hard/impossible for me to separate myself from certain situations/outcomes and from showing my emotion during certain types of conversations.
-J (Judging) vs. Perceiving.

Anyway, I did a Gemini search and it came up with the following recommendations:
-Principal Technical Specialist / Subject Matter Expert (SME): Instead of managing a team, you become the "Engineer's Engineer." Your job is to perform deep-dive technical reviews, sign off on complex calculations, and ensure quality control. You provide the "answer." and the Project Manager handles the client conflict.
-Medical Device / Biomedical Engineering: Denver (and the Boulder corridor) is a massive hub for med-tech (e.g. Medtronic, Terumo BCT). ISFJs often find deep fulfillment here because the work has a tangible, "human-helping" outcome. The regulatory environment also provides the clear structure and standard operating procedures ISFJs thrive in.
-Facilities / Lead Operations Engineer (Stable Institutions): Working for a large, stable entity like the National Renewable Energy Laboratory (NREL) in Golden or a major university/hospital system. These roles focus on the long-term stewardship of systems rather than the high-pressure "billable hour" and client-churn of industrial consulting.
-Patent Examiner or Technical Writer: At 20 years of experience, your ability to document complex mechanical systems is a rare skill. Federal roles (USPTO has a major office in Denver) offer incredible stability and a very structured, low-conflict environment.

To maintain your standard of living in Denver, look for these specific "keywords" in job titles that lean away from people-management and toward technical mastery:
-Principal Mechanical Engineer
-Quality/Reliability Engineer (Med-Tech)
-Senior Systems Engineer

Recommended Local Employers to explore:
-NREL: Mission-driven, research-focused, and generally more collaborative than industrial firms.
-Medtronic / Terumo BCT: High-paying medical device roles that suit your "Defender" nature.
-Lockheed Martin / Sierra Space: While large, these organizations have "Technical Fellow" tracks

Having said all of that, my current employer probably has other roles available for me to slide into, either as a Technical Lead or technical specialist type roles, but this whole experience has me questioning if I'm even in the right industry. So I am pursuing options internally, but I am curious about going a totally different direction. I am going to look into NREL, as I have familiarity with that place since I went to school in Golden, but I am curious about the medical device industry. I know several of you are in or used to be in that industry, so curious what your experiences are. Lockheed Martin I'm not that interested in as my dad worked/retired from there and I have a couple buddies that work there and I just don't think that's for me.

Any advice on mid-career change would be welcome. Any beta on medical device/biomedical engineering and/or facilities/lead operations engineering would be appreciated. I'm not even sure I know what those things mean.

Any ISFJs out there give a shout out! Would love to know what you're doing for your career!

Thanks

 

[Hulk]

I don't have any connections for you that I can think of at the moment, but I applaud and support you in exploring jobs that are a better fit rather than being miserable for the rest of your working career. I've definitely had some twists and turns in my career, and I'm not certain I'm done yet.

 

[RDub]

I retired from Medtronic three years ago after spending the last 24 years of my career there in surgical device design and development. Your story is similar to mine in several ways. I may be able to give you some insight into Medtronic and the medical device industry, as well as share a few stories about exactly what you’re up against at work now. DM if you would like to chat.

Ross

 

[Inukshuk]

"when I try to explain, the client shuts me down, says to take it offline, and he sends an email to my boss's boss demanding an explanation"

That is a classic move of an incompetent narcissist.

 

[RayRay27]

Hey all, so I've been in consulting engineering for almost 20 years now. I have a mechanical engineering degree, am a licensed PE, and engineering was my "default" career, as my dad was also an engineer. I started working on industrial projects - renewable fuels, refining, power, and the last 5-6 years I have been performing a role as a "Project Engineer." This role has me leading a whole project's technical team, which consists of architects, civil, structural, mechanical, fire protection, HVAC, electrical, and controls engineering disciplines. I work alongside a project manager, who is the real "project owner" and deals with most of the client-facing communications and is ultimately responsible for maintaining scope, schedule, and budget. However, my Project Engineering role also brings me into more direct communication with clients, as a sort of "assistant PM." And this is where I have been having trouble lately. We are currently working on one of our biggest ever projects, with a very demanding client project management team, and for the past 6 months or so we have been working to a very demanding schedule, and it seems we are always having challenges with our workforce on the project. Everyone is stretched thin, and a couple disciplines are understaffed and are always on the verge of falling behind on delivery and/or quality. In addition, my PM has had a death in the family so his attention has been spread thin so more load has been transferred to me than normal, including running the client meetings on several occasions, maintaining the schedule, sending transmittals, as well as keeping the technical team's questions answered, issues resolved, and maintaining our quality checking process. In the client meetings, it's almost inevitable that an issue will come up that either a) I don't have a ready answer for, b) when I try to explain, the client shuts me down, says to take it offline, and he sends an email to my boss's boss demanding an explanation. For these and several other reasons I am experiencing great anxiety about every work day. I have been working with my boss and senior management, but so far there doesn't seem to be much we can do except keep fighting and keep pushing on. I have been seeking mental health support as well, which may get me through the immediate crisis, which should wind up in late April per our schedule, but with the prospect of another 15 months of detailed design plus another 2 years of construction before we fulfill our contract with this client, I am looking at other options to get out of this situation.

The other thing that is playing into this is that within the last year I have had some counseling in other areas and part of that was taking a Myers Briggs test and reviewing it with a counselor. According to that test I am an ISFJ, which to me right now means the following:
-I (Introvert) vs. extrovert. I don't get energized by people, so when I have internal team challenges and have to face the client when things are combative, I get extremely drained. I can handle it to a certain degree, but even regular client meetings cause me unease at any regular time.
-S (Sensing) vs. Intuitive. I am not strongly intuitive, so I have to take cues from my environment. So when I am challenged and have to think on my feet, or when tasks are unclear, roles are undefined, etc. it takes a great amount of energy for me to work my way through that, and often I am not very successful when put into those situations.
-F (Feeling) vs. Thinking. This is the big one that I have been thinking about a lot lately. I always thought I was unemotional and thinking. But my counselor, after talking with me, identified me as a Feeler more than a Thinker. And I think he's right. I don't have "one feeling" to get hurt, like my client has admitted he has, I do get emotional, and it's hard/impossible for me to separate myself from certain situations/outcomes and from showing my emotion during certain types of conversations.
-J (Judging) vs. Perceiving.

Anyway, I did a Gemini search and it came up with the following recommendations:
-Principal Technical Specialist / Subject Matter Expert (SME): Instead of managing a team, you become the "Engineer's Engineer." Your job is to perform deep-dive technical reviews, sign off on complex calculations, and ensure quality control. You provide the "answer." and the Project Manager handles the client conflict.
-Medical Device / Biomedical Engineering: Denver (and the Boulder corridor) is a massive hub for med-tech (e.g. Medtronic, Terumo BCT). ISFJs often find deep fulfillment here because the work has a tangible, "human-helping" outcome. The regulatory environment also provides the clear structure and standard operating procedures ISFJs thrive in.
-Facilities / Lead Operations Engineer (Stable Institutions): Working for a large, stable entity like the National Renewable Energy Laboratory (NREL) in Golden or a major university/hospital system. These roles focus on the long-term stewardship of systems rather than the high-pressure "billable hour" and client-churn of industrial consulting.
-Patent Examiner or Technical Writer: At 20 years of experience, your ability to document complex mechanical systems is a rare skill. Federal roles (USPTO has a major office in Denver) offer incredible stability and a very structured, low-conflict environment.

To maintain your standard of living in Denver, look for these specific "keywords" in job titles that lean away from people-management and toward technical mastery:
-Principal Mechanical Engineer
-Quality/Reliability Engineer (Med-Tech)
-Senior Systems Engineer

Recommended Local Employers to explore:
-NREL: Mission-driven, research-focused, and generally more collaborative than industrial firms.
-Medtronic / Terumo BCT: High-paying medical device roles that suit your "Defender" nature.
-Lockheed Martin / Sierra Space: While large, these organizations have "Technical Fellow" tracks

Having said all of that, my current employer probably has other roles available for me to slide into, either as a Technical Lead or technical specialist type roles, but this whole experience has me questioning if I'm even in the right industry. So I am pursuing options internally, but I am curious about going a totally different direction. I am going to look into NREL, as I have familiarity with that place since I went to school in Golden, but I am curious about the medical device industry. I know several of you are in or used to be in that industry, so curious what your experiences are. Lockheed Martin I'm not that interested in as my dad worked/retired from there and I have a couple buddies that work there and I just don't think that's for me.

Any advice on mid-career change would be welcome. Any beta on medical device/biomedical engineering and/or facilities/lead operations engineering would be appreciated. I'm not even sure I know what those things mean.

Any ISFJs out there give a shout out! Would love to know what you're doing for your career!

Thanks

Im pretty sure that im an ISFJ as well. I took the Myers Briggs a few years back when I was dealing with some anxiety issues. I work out at Suncor Energy in Commerce city and we are usually looking for Mechanical Engineers with PEs. Pay and benefits are decent. If you're interested in working in a refinery let me know. It's not easy and can be really stressful which sounds like you're trying to avoid but at least its local and you wouldn't be a 3rd party or contractor here.

 

[60wag]

I lasted 7 years at Covidien (now Medtronic). It was cool that we were making products that "helped" people, who doesn't want quality surgical devices to be available? The process used to make the products was what I couldn't deal with. The amount of overhead built into the regulatory system made it necessary to sell a $50 instrument for $500. I finally jumped ship and found a very interesting small company doing machine vision projects. (2015).

We were small enough that everybody had multiple roles and needed to work closely with everyone else. We built some really cool stuff. Several years go by and most projects do ok, make enough money to keep the engine running. Then we strike paydirt with Identiflight. I'm deeply involved in the development and deployment of the product. The demand grows and we hire a whole bunch of people. People who have experience in companies like Medtronic. They naturally want to set up processes that are similar to their experience. So now we are becoming a mini version of a regulated company through our own choice, not because the industry demands it. We have lots of managers all meeting daily to decide how much more project management they can add. The engineering now is filling out online forms to check the boxes that the PMs like to create. Development has slowed to a crawl, lab space has shrunk despite our new huge building. Upper management is clearly more interested in shiny board rooms and "open" offices rather than actual product improvement.

Several years ago I had a chat with my boss at the time and he asked if I wanted to take on a management role. I told him I had done some management in the past (Covidien) and that I was much happier, focused and valuable do engineering work. It was that conversation that I believe shut down any possible advancement at the company. My advice to anyone out there listening, never ever say your not interested in management even if its true. The reality is, if I had chosen go take on a management role back then, I likely would have quit by now because sitting around a table speculating about root causes isn't my thing.

I'd rec' looking for a small company that is doing well, but not too well.

My last day of work is May 1, then I am retired and not looking back

 

[jps8460]

Wow Matt, bummer that you’re experiencing so much negative stress. I spent about 6 years on the manufacturing side of med device, one of them being Terumo BCT. Best and most boring large company I’ve ever worked for.

It’s great that you are putting effort towards bettering your situation rather than choosing to remain miserable. You’ll get through it! When my dad used to hand out advice, haha, he would often say don’t make any big decisions while you’re really pissed off or really happy/excited.

I wish I had more advice, but I found that following my intuition to engage in self employment and/or shared risk adventures ended up being my jam, where my performance and the performance of the company were directly linked to my compensation. Autonomy and not being held back by “lifers or loafers” in a company were what I was mainly seeking. It took a lot of patience to find it.

If there is one piece of advice I could give it would be to figure out what you need money wise to live. Anything above that, pretend like it doesn’t exist. That will leave you the headroom to make decisions and avoid the “Golden Handcuffs” we all hear folks groan about when they are frustrated or burned out, but can’t leave a company for a more fulfilling existence.

Good Luck!

 

[Telly]

Man I can relate and 100% agree with what others have said. I've been in the commercial construction business for almost 30 years. I tell people that my industry is all about time and money, time and money, time and money. It's always hanging over my head. I've moved to a few companies over the years, mostly to try to escape from the grind but the business never changes. Surrounding myself with good people is how I get through it. I'm currently with a small GC group in Colorado Springs and it has been a good change for me. My previous company did over 1B in revenue and the corporate crap I dealt with was overwhelming.

Hang in there Matt!

 

[MDH33]

Just make sure you don't do what I did and change careers multiple times with each subsequent job paying less. I earned more 25 years ago fresh out of grad school than I do now...

 

[Lastresort576]

Ive worked with some great biomed, (assuming youre talking about the ones who repair equipment at hospitals) guys and some bad ones. The good ones, often great are worth their weight in gold and in demand. The hardest thing from them i have heard is getting the tools and freedom you need to fix, deem obsolete or unrepairable vs. just slapping a Band-Aid on the equipment.

And for me, a great biomed tech is invaluable as i work in xray and ct where the equipment gets essentially hammered on 24/7...at least thats how it was at Denver Health.

 

[Corbet]

I can't help as an engineer only can say life is too short to hate going to work everyday. If you feel you can have an honest productive conversation with your current employer then making a lateral move could solve your problems. If not, search for something new.

The best advice I ever received and I wish I could remember who gave it to me was, "find a career you love and follow it, or move to a place you love and figure out a job. But you can't hate both your job and the place you live." I've always just lived where I wanted and my sales skill set allows me to make a living. Now owning my own business I love both.

 

[unimogguy]

I’m really sorry to hear you’re struggling with your job.

Just know it’s never too late to chase a new dream!!! Life is far too short to not be doing what you find joy in…whatever that might be.

After selling my business at 45 I moved to CO and started flight school at 46. I’ll be done in ~2 months and I’m now 47. It’s never too late to reinvent yourself.

I don’t want to be watching my last sunset with the could’ve, should’ve, would’ve in life. You won’t know unless you try.

Regret only what you thought about doing and never did.

 

[MATPHAT]

I've been in I.T. for 30 years and have done several pivots during that time. What I found was, it isn't any particular facet of I.T. that I hated. It's the corporate culture and environment. Unfortunately there is very little escape from that for me as all the real, paying I.T. jobs are in that space. I'm currently working at NOAA and it's the best it's ever been because while it does have a corp like structure at the top, they generally leave the scientist alone since we are not a profit seeking entity. Since I work with the scientists I am also protected by the structure.

What I'm trying to say is, also consider that it may not be the work, it may be something else. In this case, it sounds like "Working with clients" could be a primary culprit. Explore some of that thinking as well as I feel it could lead to a better understanding of where you should land in the future.

Also, and I think this is kind of important, the Myers-Briggs personality test is complete and total B.S with no basis in science and was made up whole cloth and is closer to astrology than to anything else. No one should be basing any decisions about themselves on it. I feel like this fact does not get nearly enough attention. Please, anyone reading this, take a few mins to look it up and quit using it. There are much better ways to self assess.

 

[Cruisertrash]

@subzali I really feel where you’re coming from here. I‘ve gone through tough mental times at jobs before, and I’ve gone through it 3 times at my current job. I push through, it subsides, and I float on for a little bit. My current position (non profit, pays less than private sector) offers nearly unlimited flexibility which enables me to be the dad my kids need (they lack solid parenting at their mom’s house), vacations that border on mini-sabbaticals, enough space to run my side business, etc. I got to a place where I enjoy that too much to let the negatives overwhelm me. My point is, there’s always a lot of things to consider around the periphery of a job other than the daily drudgery, so don’t forget about that stuff.

Whatever the validity of the Myers Briggs test - I’ve never done one - I think you have some insight into how you personally interface with work. Some people are great at sales, constantly talking to clients on the phone or in person. I did a commission sales job in a field I was passionate about circa 2009 and it resulted in the worst mental state since ever been in. I would break down in my cubicle, I had suicidal thoughts, intense anxiety at home so bad I didn’t want to leave the house. I wasn’t built for 100-150 high pressure phone sales cold calls every day, week in, week out. I think taking it with a grain of salt like @MATPHAT suggests is probably wise, but I think beyond the “rigorous” and “scientific” nature of the test you can still ascertain at least a fuzzy picture of what kind of “subzali-work” interface could suit you best. It’s never too late to change. I left behind a life working in the building trades for a completely different field. I started a littler - and it is for sure little - tinker business making Cruiser parts at 40. Life is short, try your hand at some cool shit and enjoy the ride.

I was also going to tag @RDub since he was a medical engineer lifer, but he’s already here. He’s talked to me about some of the cool projects he worked on, but I’m sure he could tell you more about the work environment.

 

[RDub]

I found a good way to get a more grounded use out of tests like M/B is to take whatever surprises you in the results and discuss with friends and coworkers you trust. 35 years ago we had to go through an earlier version of these tests and I came out rated as a “driving amiable”. The amiable part didn’t surprise me but comparing myself to other people I knew for sure were hard charging drivers I couldn’t reconcile the “driving” part. Until I discussed it with friends and coworkers. I discovered I could be perceived as driving simply due to approaching people with immediate “get to the point” conversations at work. I was trying not to waste people’s time with small talk but failed to realize the abruptness it caused was off putting. Neither here nor there regarding your situation but I mention it as an example of how to get something more tangible out those test results.

 

[Hulk]

One of the most accurate and eye-opening personality assessment I've ever taken was Emergenetics. I don't know that you can get anything from them w/o paying, but it was super interesting and I'd like to do it again with the whole team I work with.

I've taken a few other corporate assessments as well, including Myers Briggs. I'm an ENTP for what it's worth -- I am your exact opposite, @subzali, haha. All these assessments help at least a little in understanding yourself and other people.

When I left Viasat in 2018 after an 11 year run (not by my own choice although it was time to move on), I contracted with a executive career coach to help me figure out how to be successful at my next job, whatever that was going to be. She had me take a very comprehensive assessment. I don't remember much from the results other than I have "average emotional intelligence." That was a relief when I heard it. Sometimes I think I'm a completel emotional idiot, but I discovered I'm just an average idiot.

 

[IoN6]

This seems like a good fit to the topic:


View: https://open.spotify.com/track/6RUim1yEwhP3SknvYanRhs

 

[Phrog]

You may want to take NREL off your list of possibilities. It has been renamed NLR, seeing large layoffs, and is not a happy place right now. Things may change in the future depending on the national political situation, but that's probably a few years away at best.

 

[LARGEONE]

Hey Matt…call me any time and I can talk you through some of the Biotech Engineering roles you might find. Unfortunately, much of our biotech industry in CO has been run off by our incompetent state leaders. There are still a couple around the Boulder area, and hopefully someone will soon buy the old Amgen campus?

 

[KC Masterpiece]

I don’t have much direct insight into medical device or biomedical engineering, but I can share a bit from my own experience going through a career transition and more recently seriously considering a second one.

My first career was in theatrical design and production, primarily as a stage and production manager. I got into it early, working professionally in high school, joining the union before I graduated, and eventually getting my degree in it. I had some incredible experiences and wouldn’t change that path, especially since it’s how I met my wife. But it came with real tradeoffs, including crazy long hours, full immersion, and not much pay. By my mid 20s, I was starting to question it. There’s only so long you can hear “we can’t pay you more, but think of the impact you’re making” before it wears thin. At 28, I landed what felt like a dream job as Production and Company Manager at the Lake Dillon Theatre Company in Silverthorne. I was living in the mountains, managing a multi venue arts complex with million dollar production budgets, and working on meaningful projects. Within a few years though I realized I was likely approaching the zenith of my career unless I wanted to relocate to a major market or go on tour. I was hiring guys twice my age with years of experience and knew what they were taking home. Lots of my mentors were still working in their late 60s with no chance of retirement.

My wife was going through the same thing, and we both made the decision to pivot into property management. She moved into short-term rentals at Copper Mountain, and I somehow ended up in HOA management. Was it less engaging and rewarding? In some ways, yes. But it was also a huge turning point for us. We started to question the idea that your career has to be your passion. For us, that mindset had actually held us back financially and limited our options. Instead, we began to see our careers as a tool to provide financial stability and support the life we actually wanted to live. Since then, we’ve both carved out solid paths. She moved into real estate, and I focused on property, rental, and HOA management in resort markets. It is still challenging and some days pretty draining, but I no longer defines me. I hear you on your comments about being understaffed, stretched thin, and project demands continuing to get higher. It seems like that is the case in every industry these days. I work with all sorts of vendors and hear the same story from everyone. Its getting harder and harder to put together high performing teams.

Over the last year I had a really rough stretch at work and seriously explored making another change. I talked with people in a few different industries, mostly high level executives with multiple career pivots, and got a lot of the same feedback that the grass often looks greener from the outside. In the end, I chose to stay where I am, not because it is perfect, but because it gives us a level of financial stability and flexibility that we did not have before. The biggest shift for me has been how I define myself. When people ask what I do, I don’t lead with my job anymore. I talk about where I live, the life my wife and I are building, our dreams, the time I get to spend in the mountains, training for ultramarathons, and tinkering on old Land Cruisers. Work is just a small piece of my life, not the center of it. I used to spend all day focused on how to be the best general manager I could be, these days I have decided that being great is good enough.

I guess the takeaway I’d offer is this. A career change can be great, but it is worth being really clear on what you want it to give you. Is it more meaning, more income, more flexibility, or less stress? No job checks every box, and every path has tradeoffs. For me, the biggest improvement did not come from changing careers. It came from changing how I think about my career.

That is all I got from my limited life experience. I hope it helps.