APRS for Beginners (was Yaesu FT-1XDR)

PabloCruise

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The APRSdroid downloaded from Google Play uses online Google Maps, so sort of yes it would have an included map, if you have Internet connectivity and let it cache maps.

However if you want to use offline maps you must download and directly install a different version that comes from the experimental builds. Specifically, you want the "_osm" version.

https://aprsdroid.org/download/builds/

This build can render OSM maps compiled in the mapsforge format (usually they have a ".map" file extension). You can use maps from any source, KS9N downloaded the complete U.S. OSM database a couple of years ago and built a map for APRSdroid from it. Apparently took a week to compile. Anyway, ended up with a 2.5 GB file you can use.

The best way to get this is find the torrent magnet but I think there's direct downloads, too.

That's not the only maps, though. I'm using a map extracted through a BBBike build.

https://extract.bbbike.org
https://www.openandromaps.org
http://ftp-stud.hs-esslingen.de/pub/Mirrors/download.mapsforge.org/maps/v5/

But any mapsforge pre-compiled map will work, just have to name it "aprsdroid.map".

Since offline use is my primary motivation for getting into APRS, I feel like I need to figure the maps as an important step. But the good news is I feel like I am getting a lot closer to understanding the steps and gear needed.

Warning - this question may make no sense, but I will ask anyway. Can I take my ScenicMap files and run them through some process (mapsforge?) to make them OSM? It is a bummer that they are iOS only, but I like the look and feel of ScenicMap.

Or it might be best to just start with the KS9N OSM file and see how that works for starters...
 

PabloCruise

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No idea about tablets. I'm using an old Motorola Droid Maxx running super old Android 4. The only problem I have with it is being 16 GB is very limiting for storage since I'm also trying to run navigation on it. The generic complete U.S. map KS9N built for APRSdroid is 2.5 GB and I don't have space for it. I extracted a custom map for it but it only covers 4 states.

I'd be able to save about 300 MB if Android had symbolic linking functionality. Then I could just point APRSdroid to the shared maps I use for Backcountry Navigator and Oruxmaps.

I'm using a Samsung T320 tablet I think. It's a little older but checks the boxes for this (GPS, Bluetooth, android).

You'd still have to download the maps for offline mapping, it will cache maps though as is so I have been getting map data when I'm online and use APRS as an overview map without issue but I use other tools for primary navigation.

Since I am starting from the ground up with a android tablet, how does this one look? It allegedly has GPS/Bluetooth/32 GB memory and an okay price: https://www.amazon.com/Google-Nexus-Tablet-7-Inch-Black/dp/B00DVFLJKQ/ref=sr_1_3?qid=1551976271&refinements=p_n_feature_keywords_browse-bin:5821602011&s=pc&sr=1-3
 

DaveInDenver

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Since offline use is my primary motivation for getting into APRS, I feel like I need to figure the maps as an important step. But the good news is I feel like I am getting a lot closer to understanding the steps and gear needed.

Warning - this question may make no sense, but I will ask anyway. Can I take my ScenicMap files and run them through some process (mapsforge?) to make them OSM? It is a bummer that they are iOS only, but I like the look and feel of ScenicMap.

Or it might be best to just start with the KS9N OSM file and see how that works for starters...
Are ScenicMap maps vector or raster? I'm not familiar with it. IOW, are they a bunch of topographical tiles at different zooms?

Mapsforge is a vector map display format, Open Street Maps is the database (OSM information is like ESRI Shapefiles). Raw OSM data are just geospatial points and their vector relationship. Maps are built from the information in the OSM database but the data itself has no meaning without a set of rules to define things like "these set of points are a road" and a file to define what a "road" actually looks like on the screen.

For OSM-to-mapsforge the typical software is Osmosis and Osmconvert. AFAIK the resulting mapsforge file is a binary, so you'd be trying to derive source files from a compiled application. There's no 1:1 relationship between the code you wrote and the end product of the compiler.

Raster maps are digital representations of actual things using a bitmap. There's no relationship implicit in the file, you are showing with pixels just exactly as possible how it really looked. Using the wrong decoder ring (rendering engine) is like displaying an image file with a text editor, you just get ASCII hex instead of an image. Raster maps are convertible to some extent as long as you know datum, size, scale and resolution. That is like converting from TIFF to PNG. OSM data can be made into raster maps if that's what is required.

But a couple of things come to mind. First, there's no reason to use stale data for an OSM map. The OSM database is continually updated and so a new map from it should be built with the current database. It's open source and free, so there's no reason to bother trying to use an existing map as a source.

Second, any application using mapsforge won't know what to do with raster data, so unless they are vector maps to start with there's no easy conversion that will make meaningful outputs. Or they may be proprietary, like Garmin IMG, so no one knows the magic tea leaves.

Point I'm making is not to try to re-engineer what's already done with OSM maps and mobile/portable packet radio. If there's no obvious way to use your existing maps getting new ones extracted from the database costs nothing.

The root problem, though, isn't the maps. It's that every application wants its own format and none of them do everything. Backcountry Navigator is the closest but it wants it own topo maps, is an incomplete APRS application and marginal navigation and poor waypoint management (but does render mapsforge, which is nice). APRSdroid lacks any navigation or routing ability and can't do offline raster. Gaia doesn't do any APRS. aprs.fi is still a beta IMO and also has no navigation. Oruxmaps works pretty well but the routing is clunky relying on Brouter and only does APRS-IS, can't talk to a TNC as near as I can tell. It's a Charlie Foxtrot.
 
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PabloCruise

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Since I am starting from the ground up with a android tablet, how does this one look? It allegedly has GPS/Bluetooth/32 GB memory and an okay price: https://www.amazon.com/Google-Nexus-Tablet-7-Inch-Black/dp/B00DVFLJKQ/ref=sr_1_3?qid=1551976271&refinements=p_n_feature_keywords_browse-bin:5821602011&s=pc&sr=1-3

2 questions:

1) does this seem like an adequate tablet for APRSdroid in the field (outside of cell coverage)

2) Is the text messaging done in APRSdroid?
 

DaveInDenver

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APRSdroid is a full client, so yes, it can do messaging.

I was considering the Nexus 7 before I ended up inheriting an old Android phone to use instead. Based on what I've found 32GB is sufficient. I have 16GB, which is doable but cramped. More than 32GB would be nice but not critical. But I have zero photos, music or movies.

I'd say Android 4 is the bare minimum, 5 is fine and if you can run 6 or newer you'll have no issues with incompatible apps. The current version of Avenza wouldn't run on my old device so I had to find an old version to use.

FWIW, I've been able to get several apps to share the same maps. So far APRSdroid, OruxMaps, Backcountry Navigator and Cruiser all find and display mapsforge-generated maps from OpenAndroMaps. So I have one shared maps directory.

Routing right now is not shared so I have overlap in routing information between OruxMaps/Brouter and Cruiser/GraphHopper. This is not inconsequential, each takes about 1GB of storage for a data file that covers the western U.S. But my goal is to have a 100% offline device with no SIM card, so that's not possible to escape.
 
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gahi

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2 questions:

1) does this seem like an adequate tablet for APRSdroid in the field (outside of cell coverage)

2) Is the text messaging done in APRSdroid?

I've been messing with this stuff for a few years. 1st setup was just an audio cable from android device to a baofeng. Worked ok, but I wanted the 2 way messaging also. I tried building my own cable, that didnt work. then ended buying the mobilinkd. It works well but its another thing in the system to charge, setup, connect to, etc. Btech now has a cable that works with the baofeng and any audio jack, it fairly cheap and works well too.

The problem for me using APRSDroid as the source for an aprs setup is that I rarely would use it. The time to mount and setup everything just never happened. I still wanted the aprs system to work on its own without any input from me. But also wanted to be able to connect a device to it for 2 way messaging and any mapping. I ended up with a TinyTrack4 with bluetooth module, paired with a Tm281a radio.

If your going for a vehicle mounted system I would recommend something other then using a phone or tablet as an APRS. If I were starting over, I would really be considering the FTM400, or another tinytrack4 but the all-in-one version. The money spent on the setup in the end was the same or more by trying to piece it together. I now have two radios, and two antennas, and dont have all the frequencies available like a dual band.
 

DaveInDenver

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LOL, I went the other way. FTM-350 then added to that an external GPS receiver (Nuvi 350) that could plot heard stations as waypoints and now to various dedicated APRS stations.

The problem with the FTM-350 and similar solutions is they take up a side of a perfectly good dual VFO radio and even the best implementation is fiddly to read and compose messages. I much prefer APRSdroid and a dedicated station.

Maybe a solution is to get a Bluetooth module running on the serial output of a FTM-350/400 or TM-D710 and set APRSdroid is never transmit a position. Have the radio parrot packets to the serial port, then you could see stations plotted and be able to message still without a separate radio.

I do that sometimes in the truck since the station in there right now is a tracker, thus can only beacon positions out and plot heard stations on my GPS receiver (a Garmin GPSMap 78). I have the GPS on one serial port and a Byonics Bluetooth adapter on the other serial port.

When I just want to monitor with the phone rather than have it be the APRS source I'll set the SSID the same as the tracker (-12 instead of -9) and set the position to "manual" with an infinite period.
 

gahi

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Haha! grass is greener I guess!

I just want an always on system (for tracking, my wife and a couple friends have the link.) and I want it capable of 2 way messaging and mapping when needed. This is what I have now in one vehicle, for a portable system I use the HT/cable setup with a mag mount. I also just use the APRS-IS a lot straight thru the cell network. It doesnt have great coverage out here, but for what I'm doing, it will at least give a close to last posistion.
 

PabloCruise

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APRSdroid is a full client, so yes, it can do messaging.

I was considering the Nexus 7 before I ended up inheriting an old Android phone to use instead. Based on what I've found 32GB is sufficient. I have 16GB, which is doable but cramped. More than 32GB would be nice but not critical. But I have zero photos, music or movies.

I'd say Android 4 is the bare minimum, 5 is fine and if you can run 6 or newer you'll have no issues with incompatible apps. The current version of Avenza wouldn't run on my old device so I had to find an old version to use.

FWIW, I've been able to get several apps to share the same maps. So far APRSdroid, OruxMaps, Backcountry Navigator and Cruiser all find and display mapsforge-generated maps from OpenAndroMaps. So I have one shared maps directory.

Routing right now is not shared so I have overlap in routing information between OruxMaps/Brouter and Cruiser/GraphHopper. This is not inconsequential, each takes about 1GB of storage for a data file that covers the western U.S. But my goal is to have a 100% offline device with no SIM card, so that's not possible to escape.

Thanks Dave. Same goal for me - 100% offline, and I do not think the Nexus 7 supports a card. I do not have plans for routing in multiple applications, but this was part of my displeasure with going Android after getting used to ScenicMap on iOS.

I do wonder how people like the KS9N OSM maps for offroad use. I will try to learn more about that before I pull the trigger.
 

PabloCruise

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I've been messing with this stuff for a few years. 1st setup was just an audio cable from android device to a baofeng. Worked ok, but I wanted the 2 way messaging also. I tried building my own cable, that didnt work. then ended buying the mobilinkd. It works well but its another thing in the system to charge, setup, connect to, etc. Btech now has a cable that works with the baofeng and any audio jack, it fairly cheap and works well too.

The problem for me using APRSDroid as the source for an aprs setup is that I rarely would use it. The time to mount and setup everything just never happened. I still wanted the aprs system to work on its own without any input from me. But also wanted to be able to connect a device to it for 2 way messaging and any mapping. I ended up with a TinyTrack4 with bluetooth module, paired with a Tm281a radio.

If your going for a vehicle mounted system I would recommend something other then using a phone or tablet as an APRS. If I were starting over, I would really be considering the FTM400, or another tinytrack4 but the all-in-one version. The money spent on the setup in the end was the same or more by trying to piece it together. I now have two radios, and two antennas, and dont have all the frequencies available like a dual band.

Thanks gahi. I still want a setup I can move between vehicles. I will do some reading on the tinytrack4...
 

DaveInDenver

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Thanks Dave. Same goal for me - 100% offline, and I do not think the Nexus 7 supports a card. I do not have plans for routing in multiple applications, but this was part of my displeasure with going Android after getting used to ScenicMap on iOS.

I do wonder how people like the KS9N OSM maps for offroad use. I will try to learn more about that before I pull the trigger.
The map he built is just roads. It appears he eliminated most objects to get it shrunk to even 2.5 GB. I haven't done an exhaustive comparison to see if he included all secondary roads or trails, but in spot checks they have been there, as well as hydrological features (rivers, lakes, etc.).

So it's probably POIs like buildings, campgrounds, etc. he had to leave out. As a source for APRS positions which are approximate and usually moving that would be fine but it would less good for guidance and routing. It could be used to get someone from here to there since the waypoints would be shown on a road at least.

At this point since I have been able to get everything to share the same OSM maps I don't need to dedicate a map to APRSdroid anymore. It appears that the functionality automatically picks up what ever is named "aprsdroid.map" in the root directory but you can go into the settings and point it to whatever "yourname.map" you want.
 
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DaveInDenver

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What I mean.

This is the KS9N map for the Bangs Canyon trailhead parking lot.

Screen Shot 2019-03-10 at 1.09.52 PM.png


This is the same place on a typical OSM map. Just slightly different and it would be effective enough to know where a station is located. It does look like a walking trail was eliminated, although I can't say for sure that isn't because the KS9N snapshot was 2013 and perhaps the trail was just not yet mapped in OSM.

Screen Shot 2019-03-10 at 1.10.04 PM.png
 
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DaveInDenver

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But looking in town, this is the area around the GJ airport on the KS9N build.

Screen Shot 2019-03-10 at 1.10.50 PM.png


This is from a more complete build. You can see even in the 10,000' view that businesses, houses, the terminal, taxiways at the airport, the golf course, infrastructure - lots of stuff was eliminated. The lost detail becomes more obvious as you zoom in.

Screen Shot 2019-03-10 at 1.10.38 PM.png
 

DaveInDenver

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My point would be that the KS9N map is great as an APRS basemap because literally any U.S. station's position will show up on a map. If you have the space to use it it would be convenient, like having a CDOT highway map that gives you a general idea of locations.

Since I don't have the space for a 2.5 GB map like that I'm using a smaller set of OSM maps that only cover the Rocky Mt. states and parts of the neighboring Midwest and Pacific states and provinces. So if I happen to want to know a station who shows up in perhaps Ohio I have no map at all.

I load and unload maps from the phone as I need them. But my APRSdroid map does have the detail like in the second set of screenshots since it's the same map I use for navigation. I have to manually point the app to a different map if they aren't in Utah or Colorado.

APRSdroid then has an option when you track a station to open its position in an external app, which means if you have detailed maps (OSM or otherwise) in another app it's pretty easy to get that detail. For example I'll do that with Backcountry Navigator which I have caching USGS topo tiles. That would be like going from your +/- 10 mile position on the state highway map to a Trails Illustrated to know with more detail.
 
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PabloCruise

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Adding a few links here that I ahve come across in my reading:

http://www.aprs.org/ by Bob Bruninga WB4APR - sounds like he is the founder of APRS? Full of lots of information I do not understand.

https://aprs.fi/ - APRS map showing repeater towers, digipeaters, searchable by location, can show your location if you are sending your location packets correctly

http://www.mobilinkd.com/ - TNC for APRS

https://github.com/ge0rg/aprsdroid/wiki - information on APRSdroid

https://www.byonics.com/tinytrak4 - If I understand correctly, another TNC
 
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gahi

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Those tnc's both look like good options Dave, and possibly far cheaper then the tinytracks setup. Do you have any experience with either of them?
 
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