A thread for Douglas to talk about buying a truck so he doesn't hijack other threads

[Squishy!]

I'm not saying I want this specific one but as an example, if I wanted this 2019 Taco at the Groove Toyota in Englewood, what would you suggest I do to make it happen and not have any surprises registering it in CA?

Also the market in metro Denver looks better than out here in central Cali! I guess I shouldn't be surprised by that.
Depending on where a truck is located and when I could make a deal happen, it is within the realm of possibility I could fly somewhere and drive it back. It would be fun to return to Denver even if only briefly.

Let me know, I'm 5 minutes from there and can check it out for you and i know the sales manager.

 

[Squishy!]

Also, I bought my Tundra from Groove. Low pressure, found me what I wanted, no markup when everyone else was. Zack Vose is a 1st gen buddy and the sales manager there. I guarantee you he'll take great care of you, especially with an introduction. Phone calls are good, and these guys didn't make it painful.

 

[DouglasVB]

Too bad it's Double Cab, an XtraCab would be super duper.

Ironically I've been looking for a four door in case we decide to in the next few years. But I have been XtraCab 1st gen Taco-curious... and I wish I fit better into a standard cab 1st gen.

Yeah, those are some BS games. If they won't email you the deal after a phone call, they want to play games and you should move on.

Wow, that sounds like a mess...that has not been my experience and I would walk to another dealer.

Call, agree to deal, get in writing, wire funds. That should be the process, a lot of times without ever seeing the car!

And then the other "fun" parts are the dealerships that robo call me every day for months afterwards. And all the emails. Whatever system they're using for CRM isn't very good because every conversation I have I'm quite clear with what I'm looking for. And then these calls and emails (both the automated and the human versions) default back to automatic rather than manual transmission, and trying to sell me things other than a Tacoma. Not every dealership does that bout about 40% of those I've contacted in the last ~6 months are still sending me regular emails, calls, texts. It's like having an abusive, controlling ex-girlfriend

Also, I bought my Tundra from Groove. Low pressure, found me what I wanted, no markup when everyone else was. Zack Vose is a 1st gen buddy and the sales manager there. I guarantee you he'll take great care of you, especially with an introduction. Phone calls are good, and these guys didn't make it painful.

Thanks! I'm going to try again this weekend with the local/regional dealers to see what I can make happen. Then... maybe I'm coming to Colorado to pick up a truck

--

This 2018 Taco with 58k miles just popped up. It's got a shell on it already so that's a plus (I'll need a shell or at least a tonneau cover to secure gear in the bed). Website says $34k asking price. It's about five hours for me to drive there.

Looks like it was a Colorado car (Durango) until recently. Minor damage in 2018. Single owner.

https://www.frontiertoyota.com/inventory/used-2018-toyota-tacoma-trd-off-road-4wd-4d-double-cab-5tfcz5an7jx158712/

 

[DaveInDenver]

That blue truck at Frontier Toyota has Dakar rear springs and looks like it's riding higher. Definitely stinkbug even with a shell, so not stock leaf packs. I assume it's got suspension done. It might only be spacer pucks in front or could be upper arms, just hard to tell but there's something light aluminum colored.

The front hook is red, too, but hard to tell if it's an ARB point or another brand. I have an ARB, if that's what it is that's a nice upgrade.

 

[DouglasVB]

That blue truck at Frontier Toyota has Dakar rear springs and looks like it's riding higher. Definitely stinkbug even with a shell, so not stock leaf packs. I assume it's got suspension done. It might only be spacer pucks in front or could be upper arms, just hard to tell but there's something light aluminum colored.

The front hook is red, too, but hard to tell if it's an ARB point or another brand. I have an ARB, if that's what it is that's a nice upgrade.

I wonder how beat the truck is since it lived in/around Durango for a number of years It looks like it's got an aftermarket radio?

I've initiated contact with the dealership and I expect they'll be in touch around 9am pacific time.

 

[DouglasVB]

Here's a couple of dumb finance questions for if I'm buying a 3rd gen Taco.

I've got pre-approval via my credit union. 6.49% for up to $40k for 60 months. The credit union said that if the dealer is part of Credit Union Direct Lending (CUDL), then I sign all of the documents at the dealership. If not, then there's a process with a purchase order from the dealership that has to be emailed to the loan officer at the credit union.

I looked at other banks and credit unions, and tried with another credit union my wife belongs to but they gave me a much worse pre-approval.

I could buy the vehicle outright in cash although that would deplete my cash on hand and rainy day funds. (I've always been a paranoid saver) It's in a savings account earning 4.25% interest. We are actively looking at potential houses/properties to buy but it's likely out of our reach to own in the market where we live (barely habitable houses start at about $700k and property taxes are about 1.4% here with all of the various levels of government taking their cut).

Using online loan and interest calculators, assuming interest rates stay where they're at, and assuming a finance price (purchase price, fees, title, tax) of $40k and $40k in my bank account, I think I'd end up with ~$9,450 in interest if I left the money in my bank account and ~$6,900 in interest I would have to pay on the loan. This is assuming that the ~$783/month for the loan is paid from my wages.

So my questions are:

1. Should I let the dealership try and do better on loan terms?
2. What do I need to watch out for with scummy or misleading dealer tactics when it comes to loans (either from my credit union or from their lenders)? I assume some dealers are still doing the "four square" game?
3. Does it make sense to take out the loan or does it make sense to pay in cash? Or some other combo?
4. Is there something else I should be aware of or am forgetting about?

It's been almost a decade since the last time I financed a vehicle. Then I was using CU of CO and I took a physical check with me from Golden up to Boulder to the dealer. We had agreed on a price via email and my bank and the dealer had gotten all the paperwork worked out so I just got the check, made the drive, and came home with a new-to-me car. It seems like stuff has changed a bit since then.

 

[DaveInDenver]

If I was buying from a dealer I'd enlist a broker (@J Kimmel may have insight). You think you're smart but they play these games every day and are good at it. Now I don't think they're all scumbags but it's a lot of money and stress. Basically you want them to just tell you a number and they want to obfuscate that in layers of fees, add-ons, monthly this-and-that. Blah.

 

[DouglasVB]

If I was buying from a dealer I'd enlist a broker (@J Kimmel may have insight). You think you're smart but they play these games every day and are good at it. Now I don't think they're all scumbags but it's a lot of money and stress. Basically you want them to just tell you a number and they want to obfuscate that in layers of fees, add-ons, monthly this-and-that. Blah.

I talked to a couple brokers about a year ago in the region and they would only deal in new vehicles. I went down the path with one of them but it turned into being handed off to a regional dealer that turned out to not be able to get me a manual Tacoma at any price. The broker then said they were sorry but if that dealer couldn't do it, they didn't have any other dealers who could. But the weird thing is that dealer has had plenty of new manuals come through in the last year except every time I contact them, they've said it was special ordered for someone and that they were not doing any new special orders. And that's still the case with them as of a week ago.

I'm guessing the brokers here prefer dealing in higher value vehicles?

Maybe working with a broker from outside central California would have better results.

I also tried going through my credit union's auto purchasing program and through Costco's auto purchasing program. Both ended up with the same dealers that have jerked me around before.

 

[DaveInDenver]

I've never used a broker but what you describe makes sense. They have a vehicle and they have multiple dealers quote on it. Used cars are a specific truck at a specific dealer so there's no negotiation per se.

 

[J Kimmel]

No it’s because used prices have been so astronomical it doesn’t make sense because you’re going to pay new for used, despite not being able to get new. That’s why most guys don’t want to deal with it. Unless I’m dealing with a customer that knows me and knows I’m not BSing them I wouldn’t want to mess with either. The customer thinks I’m trying to scam or rip them off because I’m charging so much. Yes you can get a new one cheaper but you can’t get one so this is your choice.
It’s getting better and depending on what you want it can be easy. Or not.

 

[DouglasVB]

This 2018 Taco with 58k miles just popped up. It's got a shell on it already so that's a plus (I'll need a shell or at least a tonneau cover to secure gear in the bed). Website says $34k asking price. It's about five hours for me to drive there.

Looks like it was a Colorado car (Durango) until recently. Minor damage in 2018. Single owner.

https://www.frontiertoyota.com/inve...off-road-4wd-4d-double-cab-5tfcz5an7jx158712/

The dealer has been not very communicative on this one. It took all day via email, text, and phone for someone to respond and confirm the truck is still on the lot but then radio silence. I guess this dealer is selling a lot of vehicles and is short handed.

I'll try again today to get more info on this truck (out-the-door price and some photos of the suspension). I could go down on Friday to pick the truck up but at this point even if I started driving now, I wouldn't be there until about 2pm which would interfere with a prior commitment. Had I been able to get anything more than a "yes it's still here! When will we see you on the lot?" out of the dealer, I could have driven down last night. Oh well.

No it’s because used prices have been so astronomical it doesn’t make sense because you’re going to pay new for used, despite not being able to get new. That’s why most guys don’t want to deal with it. Unless I’m dealing with a customer that knows me and knows I’m not BSing them I wouldn’t want to mess with either. The customer thinks I’m trying to scam or rip them off because I’m charging so much. Yes you can get a new one cheaper but you can’t get one so this is your choice.
It’s getting better and depending on what you want it can be easy. Or not.

It was absolutely nuts watching used vehicles sell for MORE than new vehicles over the last few years! I totally get why brokers wouldn't want to deal with anything other than new.

I think at this point I've missed the boat on getting a new 3rd gen Taco with a 6 speed manual transmission in TRD Off-Road trim, no sunroof. At least the regional dealers here who have allocations per this thread on Tacoma World all have told me the last several months that everything is already spoken for with down payments. I think most of them were custom-ordered? It looks like now they're basically done with the 2023 M/T production run though and perhaps the 2024 M/T will show up soon-ish... but do I really want to own the first production year of a new vehicle?

 

[J Kimmel]

Exactly, so you’re ending up paying new money for a 50k car. Why? Because there are none available. If you want one start getting your name as a backup for a few dealers and pay whatever they’re asking to get one or they’ll go to someone else.
It’s been going on for a few years unfortunately, you’ve got to do your best and grab one. Some are better but a lot of these you just don’t get to call around and price like you used to.

I don’t believe Toyota lets you customize your order, the dealers get what they get and you can put your name on one.

 

[DouglasVB]

This 2021 Tacoma in white with 45k miles is on CarMax at a lot about two hours from me. Price is $38k. It looks good except I wonder about it living in Pennsylvania its whole life. Might have a lot of hidden rust from whatever they put on the roads back there?

 

[Squishy!]

Yea I'd be concerned about rust for sure. But I'd be concerned about that on any vehicle.

 

[DouglasVB]

I'm going to go sit in a couple automatic 3rd gen Tacos that are on the local lots to see about head room. There are a few with the leather seats and sunroof, and I want to see if I can make that work. There are also plenty of cloth and no sunroof trucks.

The one I was looking at just before Thanksgiving is still on the lot two hours away. This is a potentially flood-damaged truck from Florida with several owners. $32600 and 47k miles.

There's one on Carvana with leather seats and a sunroof for $39600 and 20k miles.

The Carmax one I posted last night is already reserved.

If only I could hold my nose and have an automatic transmission, there would be so many more options but I just had to marry a who only wants manual transmissions in her life

 

[DaveInDenver]

I wouldn't trust a truck in Colorado to be rust-free, nevermind one from the buckle of the Rust Belt. Once again I'd be curious why and how a truck migrates from PA to CA.

Said it before, knowing now what I do I'd just buy an automatic 05+ Tacoma. Not sure what happened but it's like Toyota and Aisin forgot how to make a decent stick shift. It's especially dumb on my truck since the clutch master is under the dash and shares a reservoir with the brakes.

Which as nonsensical as that is they then decided to make the assembly from plastic and nylon. OK, fine, but they apparently forgot that plastic shrinks in cold so when the master gets old and worn and the weather gets really cold you end up with a surprise fluid stain on your pants leg.

At least the FJC got a better master cylinder and pedal assembly. It's still up under the dash but converting it is an option if you want something a little more robust with some steel in it.

 

[DouglasVB]

Well sunroof-equipped 3rd gen Tacomas are definitely out for me. I sat in three different ones in Pro, Off-Road, and Sport trims (all with leather seats) and the results were all the same. Smashed head into headliner.

I do fit into non-sunroof cloth seat 3rd gen Tacomas with about an inch to spare.

I test drove a 2021 Off-Road auto transmission and it drove very nicely. It was less clunky than the manual transmission trucks I've driven in the last year.

But that got me thinking with what Dave said:

Said it before, knowing now what I do I'd just buy an automatic 05+ Tacoma. Not sure what happened but it's like Toyota and Aisin forgot how to make a decent stick shift. It's especially dumb on my truck since the clutch master is under the dash and shares a reservoir with the brakes.

My 4runner's manual transmission was not amazing, either. And the several first gen tacos and 2nd/3rd gen 4runners I've driven with manuals have all been pretty clunky.

Maybe Toyota prefers picking manual transmissions that drive more like tractors?

There's a manual transmission with a sunroof (ugh) about 15 miles away that just popped up. I think we might go test drive it to compare/contrast with the auto I just drove. There are a few other manuals in Off-Road trim without sunroofs that are popping up today on Auto Trader within 100 miles so perhaps we'll spend the afternoon checking them out.

 

[DaveInDenver]

FWIW, the W56 in my 1991 was fine. Clunky, sure, it's a truck transmission. But it was reliable and simple. The ratios, pedal, hydraulics, maintenance made sense. It definitely did not need a Speedi Sleeve at 90k for the release bearing to work right.

 

[DouglasVB]

Another interesting tidbit: the Toyota dealer in town said they expect the first two '24 Tacomas to arrive by the first of the year. They just received their last allotment of '23 Tacomas this week.

 

[DouglasVB]

I test drove the Off-road with the manual and the sun roof. Its transmission was surprisingly nice. If only I was two inches shorter...

I'm amazed at how many cars are on lots right now. There haven't been this many cars since before the pandemic. It feels like run up to the great recession.