A thread for Douglas to talk about buying a truck so he doesn't hijack other threads

[DouglasVB]

Rather than continuing to pollute other threads, I figured I'd contain my ramblings about trying to buy a truck here.

My primary goals in getting a truck are 1) Toyota, 2) manual transmission, 3) driver and passenger airbags, 4) good value, 5) I don't have to go a very long distance from central California to get it unless it's an incredible deal to offset travel costs and the headache of registering across state lines.

I've been vectoring in on either a 1st gen Taco or a 3rd gen Taco. Per some info from @DaveInDenver it sounds like the 05-15 trucks won't be a good long-term bet for me.

If it's a 1st gen Taco, I am looking for an extended cab (I test drove a standard cab yesterday and the cab was too tight for me). I also want the 3.4l but would be okay with the 2.7l if it was well-maintained. I have preference for the trim level with the locker (I think that was only the Off Road trim level). Most trucks that aren't completely beat to death that I've seen out here in California are in the $10-17k range. Considering the age of these trucks and high mileage, I'd be more comfortable in the $5-10k range which I know is unrealistic anywhere west of Salt Lake City.

If it's a 3rd gen Taco, I'd want a 2018 or newer to get away from the first couple years of production. The Consumers Reports info makes the 2016 look particularly not great but maybe all of the problems have already been caught at this point? I'm looking for the Off Road or Pro trim to get the locker. I do NOT want a sun roof because I know I don't fit in those trucks (I hit my head on the sun roof trim).

If I'm getting a 3rd gen Taco, I'll be getting a loan. My credit union can do 6.49% for 60 months for max $40k on a used vehicle and I am pre-approved on that but have not been underwritten yet (I think that means I can't actually buy a truck until that happens?). It looks like some dealerships can offer a 36 month 4.99% loan on new Toyotas but I haven't gone through a pre-approval process for that yet.

I've been talking with a dealership about 130 miles from me about a 2019 Tacoma Off-Road with 47k miles. It's a three owner truck and there are some questions that @DaveInDenver brought up based on it coming from Jacksonville, Florida when there was a significant flooding event. The CarFax shows it needed a fuel pump and it went through a couple batteries and electrical diagnostics. From everything I've seen from the dealership (I've asked them to do some videos and photos of key spots), there isn't obvious evidence of flood damage or rust.

There's also a new 2023 Tacoma Off-Road on the lot about 40 miles from me. I'm waiting to see what they say the price is. It might be worth the extra $$ to get a new truck so I don't end up with someone else's problems. (EDIT: It's got a wifi hotspot which I don't want. I also don't want satellite radio. And not just because the truck becomes a spy device when it can do two way comms.)

Anyway that's where I'm at. I feel this is becoming more of an emotional decision than a financial decision 😅 Any and all thoughts and commiserations are welcome.

 

[SteveH]

If it's a 3rd gen Taco, I'd want a 2018 or newer to get away from the first couple years of production.

Doesn't that give you the less-desirable 3.5 2GR engine?

 

[DouglasVB]

If it's a 3rd gen Taco, I'd want a 2018 or newer to get away from the first couple years of production.

Doesn't that give you the less-desirable 3.5 2GR engine?

It looks like all of the 3rd gen Tacos come with a 3.5L 2GR-FKS? The 2nd gen came with either a 2.7 L 2TR-FE I4 or a 4.0 L 1GR-FE V6 I believe.

 

[DaveInDenver]

I'd ask that a small caveat be considered. I think the Tacoma has always been flawed from the beginning. It's sort of a Hilux-lite.

So I do not think one generation is always better or worse than another. You have to accept the ways Toyota USA deviates from the global platforms to build the Tacoma (and Tundra) to get to the root.

Upsides to 1st gen:
-Size (highly subjective, but I prefer the dimensions of a properly "small" truck)
-Manual (Toyota used traditional Aisin models with long history)
-Engines (both are good)
-Still uses substantially Toyota parts

Downsides to 1st gen:
-Frame (Prone to corrosion and flex)
-Suspension (lower ball joint are critical path)

Upsides (or improvements) to 2nd gen:
-Access Cab with suicide doors is absolutely brilliant
-Engines (the 1GR and 2TR are IMO the best gasoline truck engines Toyota's ever made)
-Frame (improved rigidity but still not really Hilux)

Downsides to 2nd gen:
-Frame (Prone to corrosion enough that Toyota did a recall)
-V6 Manual (RA60 has a few critical design issues, aluminum snout the release bearing rides on, weird gearing for a truck)
-More domestic suppliers such as Delphi and Dana/Spicer

Upsides to 3rd gen:
-V6 Manual (RC62 solves all RA60 issues except lack of pilot bearing, which is an arguable need or not)
-Interior I think feels less cramped

Downsides to 3rd gen:
-Lots of tech
-V6 (2GR-FKS is I think a step back from a good truck engine)
-Manual (Toyota is only offering sticks in higher trims, but that's due to EPA and market demands I suspect)

So all that said I personally think a middle of the run 2nd gen still best meets my requirements. Early 2005-2007 trucks has some teething issues with frames (motor mounts could collapse) but were prior to later EPA requirements that hurt reliability (self destructing air pumps in 2012). The RA60 issue of chewing up the release bearing tube can be solved with a Speedi-Sleeve kit.

I am not particularly interested in 3rd gens because I would not buy a TRD OR again. I actually did not want that trim but by 2015 the number of decent stick shift 2nd gen of any trim was drying up. Supposedly about 1% of Tacomas 2005 and newer are stick shifts and that includes base and SR5 in 2nd gens. To get a stick shift in a 3rd you can only go TRD. In late 2014 I was trying on the allocation list for a SR5 Access Cab V6 with a MT, but production was shifting to 3rd gen and eventually it was clear that order was never going to be accepted and eventually just cancelled. So early 2015 I shifted to searching for used. Still took me 4 months to find my 2008.

 

[DouglasVB]

@DaveInDenver the suicide doors aren't too annoying? Can a regular adult ride in the back?

I need to find the thread from a year or two ago where I talked about test driving second gens. They were super hit or miss if I hit my head on the ceiling or not. It seems there's some sort of difference with the seats and the roof trim, and I wasn't able to figure it out in a way that I could know if I would fit in the truck before driving somewhere to sit in it.

Oddly the 2nd Gen manual tacos seem to be really rare out here.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Access Cab works fine for utility or if you have a dog. For both these cases I prefer suicide doors. It's much easier to get tools or bags or have the dog jump in and out from the back compared to flipping the front seats forward or walking around and opening full size doors.

But it is not really big enough for full size humans for any length of time. Kids up to teenager probably wouldn't be bad but in my experience only one kid for anything more than in-town use. Two kids are fine to run around town but that's it.

If you plan to carry more than three heartbeats much at all just go Double Cab or, even better, a 4Runner.

Also realize that the side windows in Access Cab doors do not open. The 1st gen and older Pickup XtraCab windows do open but it's only a flip out at the trailing edge. Having no way to open windows is a major suck for the dog.

2005+ sticks of any kind are rare. Nice ones used even less. People who want a stick buy a stick and keep it until it's worn out. The competition on the used market is slightly higher since it's a very specific feature that's sought.

 

[DaveInDenver]

BTW, you're not imaging the roof line. 1995 and older Pickups have a flat floor and no threshold. You sit low to the floor, feet forward.

The 1st gen Taco got a little bit of a sill but the opening is also just slightly larger than an older truck.

The 2nd gen Taco has a pronounced sill and the seats sit up higher. But it's not quite a full floor pan like a domestic. I think the 3rd gen is similar but the roof is enough higher that you don't hit it when you forget to duck. It's something you get used to but at first it will seem odd if you're used to older trucks.

Edit to add: I never mentioned that part of the reason I do NOT like 2005+ cabs is the huge A pillars and very raked windshield. The sightlines are terrible and it felt claustrophobic for a long time. I don't really notice anymore unless I'm in technical terrain where you have to drive by Braille or happen to sit in an older truck or drive our Forester (honestly, a 2017 Forester feels to me like a carryover 1995 Camry inside). Also the very tall center hump makes you feel like you're driving a sports car wannabe and not a truck. But it's not quite a sports car so it just seems silly.

 

[DouglasVB]

Aha I found the thread where I talked about sitting in various vehicles! Wow that was almost two years ago. I'm very indecisive 😅

Tacoma head room and seat height?

Today I sat in a half dozen different 2nd and 3rd gen tacos that had a range of available head room. Some I had at least an inch of clearance and others my head was jammed into the head liner. Has anyone seen a guide to find a taco with the most head room possible? Here's what I found today...

risingsun4x4club.org

Looks like it was all over the map with if I fit into 3rd gens... more recently I haven't had issues with 3rd gens that I've test driven.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Fit is subjective so all you can do is try it and see. You do grow accustomed to it over time and people do figure out ways to move the seats up and down or change the angle with brackets. It would be easier if Toyota would just put a tilt for the lower cushion or, better. a way to crank up and down the seat. I'm counting days until our 2002 Jetta gives up since even that VW got seats that could at least raise and lower. It's pretty sad that a 6 year older base model Jetta has better seats than at-the-time top spec Tacoma.

 

[DouglasVB]

Fit is subjective so all you can do is try it and see. You do grow accustomed to it over time and people do figure out ways to move the seats up and down or change the angle with brackets. It would be easier if Toyota would just put a tilt for the lower cushion or, better. a way to crank up and down the seat. I'm counting days until our 2002 Jetta gives up since even that VW got seats that could at least raise and lower. It's pretty sad that a 6 year older base model Jetta has better seats than at-the-time top spec Tacoma.

We should start our own car company and make vehicles that have properly adjustable seats.

 

[DouglasVB]

I missed a 2017 Tacoma Off-Road only 25 miles away from me by a day. Would have been a decent price/miles and one owner. Even a non-obnoxious color. Dunno why it didn't pop up on my searches earlier.

 

[Bucket]

What about a first gen Tundra?

 

[DouglasVB]

What about a first gen Tundra?

Were those available in manual? I think I've only ever seen automatic versions.

 

[Bucket]

Were those available in manual? I think I've only ever seen automatic versions.

Looking to find a manual trans Tundra

www.tundratalk.net

Not common and it sounds like not available with the V8.

I drove a 2008 Tacoma regular cab, bench seat, 4x4, manual trans, 2.7L for ten years. It was a great truck.

 

[DouglasVB]

Looking to find a manual trans Tundra

www.tundratalk.net

Not common and it sounds like not available with the V8.

I drove a 2008 Tacoma regular cab, bench seat, 4x4, manual trans, 2.7L for ten years. It was a great truck.

I keep hitting up against trucks that I'm interested in being super rare or very expensive 😅

 

[DouglasVB]

Hmm this 2000 Taco checks a lot of boxes. 206k miles. Timing belt and water pump done a few k miles ago. $17k but it has a topper, upgraded shocks and upper control arms. https://sfbay.craigslist.org/scz/cto/d/santa-cruz-2000-toyota-tacoma-trd-4x4/7689851266.html

 

[Bucket]

I still think first gen Tundra is a good option if you're willing to trade your manual transmission requirement for an auto and a super reliable Toyota 2UZ-FE 4.7L V8.

Similar size to the 3rd gen Tacoma, but with a 7,200 lb GVWR instead of 5,600 lb and one of the best V8 engines ever.

 

[DouglasVB]

if you're willing to trade your manual transmission requirement for an auto

Ugh I wish I could. There are a lot more auto trucks of any year available than there are manuals.

 

[Johnny Utah]

Reading through this thread made me remember some things I experienced last February when I drove my dad’s 2005 Tacoma Access Cab, 4x4, six speed manual to Southern California for our trip to Baja.

I’m not tall at 5’8” but I had a very hard time getting comfortable in the truck. I couldn’t figure out why until I read what Dave said about the low seat, legs out in front. It occurred to me that one of the things that upset me most was that the seat bottom was dead flat and had no adjustment. Also, I would bump my head on the upper door getting in and out. Again I’m not tall, but I’m used to driving my Land Cruisers and so it was super annoying.

Aside from that the truck is pretty great. The truck has almost 300k miles and drives really nice. The 4.0 liter V6 is plenty powerful and the transmission isn’t hard to get used to at all.

I think the seating position for me is kind of a deal breaker though. I would be interested to see if a replacement seat like a Scheelmann would be a good option.

 

[damon]

Reading through this thread made me remember some things I experienced last February when I drove my dad’s 2005 Tacoma Access Cab, 4x4, six speed manual to Southern California for our trip to Baja.

I’m not tall at 5’8” but I had a very hard time getting comfortable in the truck. I couldn’t figure out why until I read what Dave said about the low seat, legs out in front. It occurred to me that one of the things that upset me most was that the seat bottom was dead flat and had no adjustment. Also, I would bump my head on the upper door getting in and out. Again I’m not tall, but I’m used to driving my Land Cruisers and so it was super annoying.

Aside from that the truck is pretty great. The truck has almost 300k miles and drives really nice. The 4.0 liter V6 is plenty powerful and the transmission isn’t hard to get used to at all.

I think the seating position for me is kind of a deal breaker though. I would be interested to see if a replacement seat like a Scheelmann would be a good option.

This is the reason I have seat jackers in my Tacoma. Lifting the front of the seat even an inch makes SO much difference.