Colorado Moving to CARB Emission Standards

[Danger Noodle]

I'm not really sure where to start here. I didn't realize this was a thing until today when I was talking to my exhaust guy about getting an exhaust system fabricated for my new build. Just as a warning, I am not sure what fully true or not, this is just the information that was told to me. Please correct me if I am wrong. I am simply trying to raise awareness of this massive problem for people in the Land Cruiser Community. Colorado is moving to CARB emission standards 100% as of January 1st. There is not going to really be much of a transition period. This means Colorado is going to be adopting 50 years of emission standards with no transition. It is expected that over 500,000 vehicles are going to not pass CARB standards. Anyone who has lived in a non-emissions county may now have to pass full emission standards. It is unclear if there will be grandfather clauses for vehicles newer than 1976 that were modified before this was passed. This means that anyone who has a non-OEM engine, even with smog, may not be able to get their vehicle to pass. CARB standards don't care if the new engine you put into the vehicle is cleaner than the OEM, you still may not pass. For anyone running a non CARB approved intake manifold, exhaust manifold/header, injection system, etc, may not pass. I feel that this is going to be a massive problem for any land cruiser owner who has a swap, or any aftermarket parts on their cruiser. For the people living in the Denver area that already has emission stations, you will most likely be required to pass CARB standards in 2021. I'm amazed that this has gone unnoticed. Although they may not fully implement full CARB standards, I would be prepared if they do.

Below, I have compiled some of the passed legislation, CARB standards, and other resources and outlined what I thought to be the important sections of them.

2018 legislation for the new standards that were proposed. It's short and worth looking at. (https://leg.colorado.gov/sites/default/files/images/olls/190044jbp.pdf)

Here are some excerpts of the legislation: "On June 18, 2018, Governor John Hickenlooper, by Executive Order B 2018 006, directed the Colorado Department of Public Health and Environment to develop and propose a regulation for the implementation of a Colorado low emission vehicle (“LEV”) program, incorporating the requirements of the California LEV program" (Page 14, https://leg.colorado.gov/sites/default/files/images/olls/190044jbp.pdf)

Other excerpts: "On June 19, 2018, Governor Hickenlooper signed Executive Order B 2018 006, Maintaining Progress on Clean Vehicles. It directs the Colorado Air Quality Control Commission (AQCC) to consider a proposed rule adopting a California Low Emission Vehicle (LEV) Standard. The AQCC passed Regulation 20 - The Colorado Low Emission Automobile Regulation (CLEAR) - on November 16, 2018." (https://cdphe.colorado.gov/zero-emi...018, Governor,Emission Vehicle (LEV) Standard.)

This should scare you: "The executive order directs the Colorado Department of Public Health and Environment (CDPHE) to do the following: develop a rule to establish a Colorado Low Emission Vehicle (LEV) program, which incorporates the requirements of the California LEV program, and propose that rule to the Colorado Air Quality Control Commission (AQCC) during its August 2018 meeting for possible adoption into the Colorado Code of Regulations by December 30, 2018."
(https://cdphe.colorado.gov/motor-vehicle-emissions/low-emission-vehicle-standards)

Califonia CARB Standards and requirements. Sections 1961 (page 50), 1965 (Page 241), 1976 (Page 242), 1978 (Page 256) are what I believe to be the important ones.
(https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/sites/default/files/2019-07/cleancomplete lev-ghg regs 10-19.pdf)

If you would really like to do more reading, here are the On-Road Light-Duty Emissions Certification Requirements for the state of Commiefornia.
(https://ww3.arb.ca.gov/msprog/onroad/cert/ldctp/ldctp.htm)

Please, do bring awareness to people about this problem. It's really seemed to have snuck up, and a lot of us will suffer from it.

-Noodle

 

[DanInDenver]

Closest I could find is this. States that in 2022 all new vehicles sold in CO must meet CA CARB emission standards.

"Colorado’s new standards will apply to new light-duty and medium-duty motor vehicles sold in Colorado beginning in the 2022 model year. The proposed rule will not impact heavy-duty vehicles, construction and agricultural equipment or used vehicles."

Colorado Adopts California's Stricter Emissions Standards, Bucking Trump Administration

President Trump has said he will roll back an Obama-era rule that would've matched federal emissions standards with California standards.

www.cpr.org

 

[Notyourmomslx450]

this talks about new cars...

Colorado Adopts California's Stricter Emissions Standards, Bucking Trump Administration

President Trump has said he will roll back an Obama-era rule that would've matched federal emissions standards with California standards.

www.cpr.org

 

[Danger Noodle]

this talks about new cars...

Colorado Adopts California's Stricter Emissions Standards, Bucking Trump Administration

President Trump has said he will roll back an Obama-era rule that would've matched federal emissions standards with California standards.

www.cpr.org

I agree that it is mostly for new cars, but it is a statewide emissions standard. That means that counties that previously did not have emissions may need to start testing, making that a major problem for people who have not previously had to test. I am having to referee a new exhaust system for a 78 FJ40. I live in a county with no emissions. This is going to a big problem.

 

[lazyLfarm]

Completely makes me question my move back to Colorado....among other things.

Wyoming...Wyoming is nice Wind or Emissions...

 

[DanInDenver]

Definitely will raise the price of new 2022 autos. If you’re considering buying new in the next couple years might want to accelerate those plans.

 

[subzali]

Scott at AA Performance had mentioned this to me as well, though I’m not sure anyone really knows how it’s going to impact us. He says manufacturers of the components (cats and stuff) don’t even have enough to meet the future anticipated demand, so not sure how enforcement will look.

 

[J1000]

Yep it's coming. It really is sad Not sure what I will do when they tell me I can't drive my cars anymore. Also Polis signed something saying all cars have to be electric by 2050, no new gas cars after 2035 or something like that. Basically Colorado has declared war on vehicles as a hobby. They also switched from spraying sodium chloride to just using regular salt like the rust belts do.

 

[cbmontgo]

So sick of these totalitarian impulse government idiots.

 

[Dman33733]

I'll be more thank happy to provide a new home for any pre-1986 Yotas up here in Wyoming ;-)

 

[denvermike]

I bumped into one of the guys that worked on making these changes happen a few years ago when I was getting the 5 year plates for my ‘79 40. He’s was the only guy watching the emissions test with a frown. We got to talking and the short of it was - I complained about how this is a bit of an overkill for owners of collector vehicles to follow; all this process given how few there are and how rarely they are driven. I said ‘you guys shouldn’t make it so hard to own these - lots of business supporting these etc’. His response was ‘well, our goal is get them off the road.’ I said something about ‘people with that agenda won’t be in public service very long’ and our conversation ended. I guess he’s laughing now

 

[DaveInDenver]

They also switched from spraying sodium chloride to just using regular salt like the rust belts do.

We used to use magnesium chloride, which is less aggressive to steel but is more aggressive on aluminum and copper. They still use mag chloride in the mountains because they have to. Water mixed with plain salt (sodium chloride) has too high of a freezing point so it'll just refreeze at higher elevations. The problem is mag chloride is expensive and with all the people moving in who can't drive in the snow they have to coat the crap out of everything over there any time there's a hint of snow. It gets very costly for CDOT and the cities.

 

[twentyfooteighty]

Time to look into getting Montana license plates again.

 

[J1000]

We used to use magnesium chloride, which is less aggressive to steel but is more aggressive on aluminum and copper. They still use mag chloride in the mountains because they have to. Water mixed with plain salt (sodium chloride) has too high of a freezing point so it'll just refreeze at higher elevations. The problem is mag chloride is expensive and with all the people moving in who can't drive in the snow they have to coat the crap out of everything over there any time there's a hint of snow. It gets very costly for CDOT and the cities.

Yep mag chloride. That was my late night brain.

I actually think it's far more nefarious than that. Sure, it is more expensive but we were doing it for decades when it was just a small hick state. Now we are the new silicone valley basically, all the new population is concentrated in the cities so there should be more funds available for the same road ways.

No, like I said it's more nefarious. How can they mandate we all have 100% electric cars by 2050 if our Land Cruisers are still working fine? Introduce salt and overly restrictive emissions standards and now like @denvermike says, "we'll get them off the road." That really is their goal.

This article from last year shows how CDOT is being taken over by politics. Case in point Polis replaced an experienced and capable civil engineer with a 35-year old history major with no relevant experience. Her qualifications? Daughter of the former secretary of treasury. She bounced around some DC agencies and finally stuck here in CO. Lucky us.

CDOT IN TOTAL DISARRAY - Glendale Cherry Creek Chronicle

Crony Bidding And Gross Incompetence Reign Part I Of A II Part Series by Charles C. Bonniwell At a time when Coloradans are desperately pleading for improved and new roadways the agency in charge of the same, the Colorado Department of Transportation (CDOT), is mired in the greatest crisis of...

glendalecherrycreek.com

 

[PhatFJ]

Just my 02. I think there will be exceptions. Grandfather, collectors, limited use and such. If we look at the technology, I believe companies will start making electric conversions for almost any vehicle. Not really practical now but I think it's coming. Hey if I could cost effectively put an electric drive train in my 40 right now, I would do it. Come on Elon, let's get some conversion kits out there ..

 

[DaveInDenver]

Yep mag chloride. That was my late night brain.

I actually think it's far more nefarious than that. Sure, it is more expensive but we were doing it for decades when it was just a small hick state. Now we are the new silicone valley basically, all the new population is concentrated in the cities so there should be more funds available for the same road ways.

No, like I said it's more nefarious. How can they mandate we all have 100% electric cars by 2050 if our Land Cruisers are still working fine? Introduce salt and overly restrictive emissions standards and now like @denvermike says, "we'll get them off the road." That really is their goal.

This article from last year shows how CDOT is being taken over by politics. Case in point Polis replaced an experienced and capable civil engineer with a 35-year old history major with no relevant experience. Her qualifications? Daughter of the former secretary of treasury. She bounced around some DC agencies and finally stuck here in CO. Lucky us.

CDOT IN TOTAL DISARRAY - Glendale Cherry Creek Chronicle

Crony Bidding And Gross Incompetence Reign Part I Of A II Part Series by Charles C. Bonniwell At a time when Coloradans are desperately pleading for improved and new roadways the agency in charge of the same, the Colorado Department of Transportation (CDOT), is mired in the greatest crisis of...

glendalecherrycreek.com

Suffice to say I'm quite familiar with the issues at CDOT. Region 3 (northwest part of the state) isn't bad but the Denver HQ has serious problems. It stems from the governor, who was born in Colorado but is at heart a Californian and political hack. Roads are one aspect.

Another state issue that should be watched is water. The 2020 report for interim use guidelines was just released yesterday (Friday afternoon a week before Christmas, well played bureaucrats).

https://www.usbr.gov/ColoradoRiverBasin/documents/7.D.Review_FinalReport_12-18-2020.pdf

We in the upper basin have to be seriously vigilant because the lower basin (mainly California) has wanted to take our 1922 Compact and 1948 Upper Basin Compact agreed upon allocations since, well, 1922. I'm not a water lawyer so my understanding and reading is not even cursory. They divided up the river in 1922 based on poor assumptions, probably knowingly over estimating the river flow by quite a lot, 15% or 20%. Since California was already using all their agreed water the "deficit" is made up by we upper basin states who never were able to develop fast enough to use the water. Delivering Shoshone power plant's allocation was about all that keeps significant water in the river between the head waters and the Utah state line all year.

With the wildfire last summer threatening Shoshone generating station just above Glenwood Springs our senior rights both down river and on the Western Slope against Denver are a problem (most recently Denver Water's permit win to allow Fraser River diversion). Here in GJ we're not directly reliant on Colorado River water (we have our own first user rights elsewhere) but irrigation up and down the system in Colorado and Utah might be.

Also Powell is very close to being below its minimum to even generate power anymore (this being the original 1960s failsafe justification) and keeping it above there is pretty much the upper basin's responsibility as the way to hit minimum elevations on Mead. Once it and Blue Mesa are empty we invoke the "oh shit" (e.r. drought contingency) law, which conveniently, perfectly clairvoyant of our leaders to have passed into law in 2019.

H.R.2030 - 116th Congress (2019-2020): Colorado River Drought Contingency Plan Authorization Act

Summary of H.R.2030 - 116th Congress (2019-2020): Colorado River Drought Contingency Plan Authorization Act

www.congress.gov

Basically look for Colorado to take it in the shorts to the benefit of lower basin states, probably even worse than Utah and Wyoming. Colorado supplies around 65% of the water into the Colorado so it the biggest target to give up it's allocation. We get around 50% of the upper basin allocations (works out to about 3.75 million acre-feet) while supplying in the range (which varies greatly) of 10 million acre-feet depending on snow pack.

It has the feeling, to me anyway, that Colorado and Utah (with all the recent Wilderness designations, for example) are being exploited with governments who don't actually work to the benefit of their states to put the resources on the shelf for California's later use. But that's just my read of it. The governor AFAIK has shown no great public interest in protecting the Colorado River for Colorado, anyway.

 

[subzali]

Dave, a book I read recently called Where the Water Goes which does a pretty good job going over the basics of what you are talking about here. Agree it’s going to become a major problem

 

[DaveInDenver]

Dave, a book I read recently called Where the Water Goes which does a pretty good job going over the basics of what you are talking about here. Agree it’s going to become a major problem

Two others that are informative are "Cadillac Desert" by Marc Reisner and "Science Be Dammed" by Eric Kuhn. Kuhn's book just came out in 2019 and is very current and authoritative as he was (recently retired) the Colorado River Water Conservation District general manager for 22 years.

Science Be Dammed | UAPress

uapress.arizona.edu

 

[40x105mm]

I'm not really sure where to start here. I didn't realize this was a thing until today when I was talking to my exhaust guy about getting an exhaust system fabricated for my new build. Just as a warning, I am not sure what fully true or not, this is just the information that was told to me. Please correct me if I am wrong. I am simply trying to raise awareness of this massive problem for people in the Land Cruiser Community. Colorado is moving to CARB emission standards 100% as of January 1st. There is not going to really be much of a transition period. This means Colorado is going to be adopting 50 years of emission standards with no transition. It is expected that over 500,000 vehicles are going to not pass CARB standards. Anyone who has lived in a non-emissions county may now have to pass full emission standards. It is unclear if there will be grandfather clauses for vehicles newer than 1976 that were modified before this was passed. This means that anyone who has a non-OEM engine, even with smog, may not be able to get their vehicle to pass. CARB standards don't care if the new engine you put into the vehicle is cleaner than the OEM, you still may not pass. For anyone running a non CARB approved intake manifold, exhaust manifold/header, injection system, etc, may not pass. I feel that this is going to be a massive problem for any land cruiser owner who has a swap, or any aftermarket parts on their cruiser. For the people living in the Denver area that already has emission stations, you will most likely be required to pass CARB standards in 2021. I'm amazed that this has gone unnoticed. Although they may not fully implement full CARB standards, I would be prepared if they do.

Below, I have compiled some of the passed legislation, CARB standards, and other resources and outlined what I thought to be the important sections of them.

2018 legislation for the new standards that were proposed. It's short and worth looking at. (https://leg.colorado.gov/sites/default/files/images/olls/190044jbp.pdf)

Here are some excerpts of the legislation: "On June 18, 2018, Governor John Hickenlooper, by Executive Order B 2018 006, directed the Colorado Department of Public Health and Environment to develop and propose a regulation for the implementation of a Colorado low emission vehicle (“LEV”) program, incorporating the requirements of the California LEV program" (Page 14, https://leg.colorado.gov/sites/default/files/images/olls/190044jbp.pdf)

Other excerpts: "On June 19, 2018, Governor Hickenlooper signed Executive Order B 2018 006, Maintaining Progress on Clean Vehicles. It directs the Colorado Air Quality Control Commission (AQCC) to consider a proposed rule adopting a California Low Emission Vehicle (LEV) Standard. The AQCC passed Regulation 20 - The Colorado Low Emission Automobile Regulation (CLEAR) - on November 16, 2018." (https://cdphe.colorado.gov/zero-emission-vehicle-mandate-proposal#:~:text=On June 19, 2018, Governor,Emission Vehicle (LEV) Standard.)

This should scare you: "The executive order directs the Colorado Department of Public Health and Environment (CDPHE) to do the following: develop a rule to establish a Colorado Low Emission Vehicle (LEV) program, which incorporates the requirements of the California LEV program, and propose that rule to the Colorado Air Quality Control Commission (AQCC) during its August 2018 meeting for possible adoption into the Colorado Code of Regulations by December 30, 2018."
(https://cdphe.colorado.gov/motor-vehicle-emissions/low-emission-vehicle-standards)

Califonia CARB Standards and requirements. Sections 1961 (page 50), 1965 (Page 241), 1976 (Page 242), 1978 (Page 256) are what I believe to be the important ones.
(https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/sites/default/files/2019-07/cleancomplete lev-ghg regs 10-19.pdf)

If you would really like to do more reading, here are the On-Road Light-Duty Emissions Certification Requirements for the state of Commiefornia.
(https://ww3.arb.ca.gov/msprog/onroad/cert/ldctp/ldctp.htm)

Please, do bring awareness to people about this problem. It's really seemed to have snuck up, and a lot of us will suffer from it.

-Noodle

Hello, Brand new to the forum,
Possible work around, solution. MT provides Permanent plates (10 years of age and older), no inspections, 50 State reciprocity.
This is not a weird one off grey area market, many exotics and RV dealers advertise “MT plates available.” at dealerships.
Searching LLC MT Plates gives you the long answer, with a few resentfully written Soured journo articles to boot. (don’t want to advertise any Company).

Personally as a 5th Gen MT native, now living in C Springs. I just co-register with my MT immediate Family, no inspection, just faxed the Family my proving docs, signed a MV registration form, sent title, and *baam* PERM plates, about $280 done.

I would hazard to guess a long standing club garnering 10 to 50+ members wanting these advantageous registration process might leverage a MT LLC, lawfirm into discounts...

Hope this is value added.

 

[White Stripe]

My guess is it will only affect new vehicles sold in Colorado. By 2025 they want all new vehicles to average 36MPG or so if I'm reading right. I'm not sure the technology exists to do that. A new Rav4 hybrid does, but it's not a very large vehicle. I don't see how a 4runner sized vehicle would do it unless you go electric.

If you go electric where will you charge it? A ton of people in Denver don't have garages to charge overnight. In a perfect world you could put chargers randomly all over Colorado like on the sides of small streets or in parking lots. But it's not a perfect world. This is Denver. What really happens in Denver if you leave something unattended with copper wire in it overnight? The same thing that happens to a vehicle with a easily accessible catalytic converter. I don't have a problem with electric vehicles as a idea. But I think society has this idea being pushed that electric cars are the end solution before realistically making plans for them work on a large scale. I think they could work on a large scale. Just not with the current plans from what I see.

As far as vehicle emissions per County, I don't think that will change much. From what I know of California, only the more populous counties are strict on emissions. Some counties don't even have emissions in California. I think it would be too costly to have all counties develop emissions testing programs. However some counties are also forcing pre-emission diesels to install Def systems in California.