What should my first mod be?

[Mountain Drew]

I don't claim to know everything about 4-Runners but I feel like the information I have might help you. I'm just a kid with a 4-Runner who drives it off road with some really awesome guys.

In my opinion that is a really nice 4-Runner and I would buy it. I have a 1996 Runner with a 3.5" lift 33" tires a bumper and snorkel. I don't have sliders or a rear bumper or a rear locker, and I have have never hit the body, or the rear bumper.

When I was starting, for me it was about money and where I wanted to go. So I would say that your first mod would depend on how much money you want/can spend and where you plan to take it after your first mod. I put the bumper and tires on first, mainly because I did not want to have a wrecked car if I got in an accident. When I had more money I put my lift on, and when I get some more money I'll put sliders and a rear bumper on. My lift was about 400$ but you could spend all kinds of money on a lift. But for now I am very pleased with how much money I have spent on it, and how capable it is.

I hope some of the my information will help you in deciding what you are going to do.

 

[corsair23]

Either someone painted the bumper for some unknown and whacked out reason or it isn't the original bumper....Regardless, I would HIGHLY encourage running a Carfax on every vehicle you consider...Not a guarantee that it will catch every problem but adds some piece of mind...

Get the 30 day unlimited plan or whatever it is and don't rush things. Unless you have to have a truck right now, today, look until you find the perfect, or near perfect, one for you. You'll probably have it for a long time so spend the time getting what you want...

Oh, and I'm with Mike...Get an automatic - Unless you are just wanting that much more of a challenge when running trails? Imagine you are climbing a hill, with rocks, etc. and trying to gently get over the obstacles...You have to stop. With an automatic, you hit the brakes - with a manual you have to hit the brakes, push in the clutch (unless you want the engine to die anyway), and then figure out how to synch everything back up to get going again...The only way around that is what Dave mentioned earlier about lower gears in the Tcase, or a second box, or both...Can get real expensive quick. AxleIke has a video somewhere of his truck crawling along as he walks next to it...Pretty but I still prefer an auto for everyday pavement pounding which is what most of our trucks do 95% of the time

 

[DaveInDenver]

with a manual you have to hit the brakes, push in the clutch (unless you want the engine to die anyway), and then figure out how to synch everything back up to get going again

With lower transfer gears, the mighty 22R-E does not stall much... Amazing how with 100:1 total reduction and two lockers those little gerbils can power even IFS up stuff.

BTW, Cheeseman showed me to a super fly way to deal with the starting problem. It is soooo slick, makes you slushbox guys look Neanderthal in comparison. The gear reduction starters in our trucks have generate plenty of torque when you're in 1st with Marlin low (LOVE 4.7 gears!) to drag you up a hill. So by cranking with the truck in gear it will actually drive you up an obstacle AND start the truck at the same time. That is awesome! Used this probably 2 dozen times on the Rubicon and probably 3 times on gas can hill alone.

Use the 'Con as an example. Most of you guys were running stock auto and stock t-case in your 80s and even stock R&P ratios. The mods were lifts and 35" tires. I mostly kept up with you but I have super low R&P gears (5.29) and super low t-case (4.7) to do it with a 5 speed. Even Greg, who schooled us all, is running lower diff gears and a dual case Ultimate. So autos really do make a major difference in crawling ability.

 

[nakman]

Use the 'Con as an example. Most of you guys were running stock auto and stock t-case in your 80s and even stock R&P ratios. The mods were lifts and 35" tires. I mostly kept up with you but I have super low R&P gears (5.29) and super low t-case (4.7) to do it with a 5 speed. Even Greg, who schooled us all, is running lower diff gears and a dual case Ultimate. So autos really do make a major difference in crawling ability.

Who was running a stock R&P? I think all the 80's were 4.88's, and on 35's that's slightly less than stock. Not that it matters, or changes the point any, but this seem to be the only thread with some action today so I gotta post something! (can you tell I'm logged in from home today? it's lonely down here...)

 

[Swoop]

... and Engineer Pass, Cinnamon Pass, Black Bear Pass and Imogene Pass are usually involved with the annual Ouray Trip (over Labor Day weekend). ... Welcome!

Thanks for the great info!

I have heard that Black Bear Pass's switchbacks can be so tight that it's hard for the longer vehicles like 4Runners to even take the turn. Is it a pretty difficult drive? What's the hardest drive in Colorado?

 

[nakman]

Thanks for the great info!

I have heard that Black Bear Pass's switchbacks can be so tight that it's hard for the longer vehicles like 4Runners to even take the turn. Is it a pretty difficult drive? What's the hardest drive in Colorado?

If you can get yourself out of the parking lot after a football game, you can drive down Blackbear pass, IMO... but yes with few exceptions reverse will be needed at least twice, iirc. Really nbd.

Hardest drive? that's easy, I-76 headed out towards Nebraska. man that has to be the most boring drive we got, very hard to stay awake!

 

[DaveInDenver]

Hardest drive? that's easy, I-76 headed out towards Nebraska. man that has to be the most boring drive we got, very hard to stay awake!

Vail Pass eastbound in a heavily laden Hilux trying to not get run over.

 

[wesintl]

Vail Pass eastbound in a heavily laden Hilux trying to not get run over.

amen.. wait, I mean, uh.. that is no fun in the BJ either. I had a friggen escalade pass me on the shoulder doin 80 while i was in the slow lane doing 15 and the fast lane was doin 80 too. nightmare.

I don't know the first thing about fortuners but a 2 1/2 lift, tires and locker in the rear will take you almost anywhere you'll want to go.

 

[Red_Chili]

...Oh, also realize that even if you get a newer 4Runner you can retrofit the factory locker pretty easily in any 1996-2002 4Runner, since they all used the 8" axle even without a locker. The wiring will be there, just add the dash switch and third member (with a little grinding).

Nope. 8.3" axle in the non-lockers, AFAIK. Easy enough to swap the housing with the locker diff though. Be mindful of whether the housing is ABS or not; can't swap axle shafts between the two (unless you cheat like Mr. Bill has been known to do... we'll see how his works out). So after verifying gear ratios, just grab the whole shebang from the boneyard and slip it under the Runnerhiney.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Nope. 8.3" axle in the non-lockers, AFAIK. .

That's with the Tacoma, non-locked trucks have 8.4" axles (same third as T100 and Tundra). All the 3rd gen 4Runners have 8" axles locker or not. The retrofit is the same as our older junk, clearance the housing and bolt in. It could very well be easier to get the whole axle to swap rather than modifying the housing, that is certainly a fair option. But you don't have to.

 

[AxleIke]

With lower transfer gears, the mighty 22R-E does not stall much... Amazing how with 100:1 total reduction and two lockers those little gerbils can power even IFS up stuff.

BTW, Cheeseman showed me to a super fly way to deal with the starting problem. It is soooo slick, makes you slushbox guys look Neanderthal in comparison. The gear reduction starters in our trucks have generate plenty of torque when you're in 1st with Marlin low (LOVE 4.7 gears!) to drag you up a hill. So by cranking with the truck in gear it will actually drive you up an obstacle AND start the truck at the same time. That is awesome! Used this probably 2 dozen times on the Rubicon and probably 3 times on gas can hill alone.

Use the 'Con as an example. Most of you guys were running stock auto and stock t-case in your 80s and even stock R&P ratios. The mods were lifts and 35" tires. I mostly kept up with you but I have super low R&P gears (5.29) and super low t-case (4.7) to do it with a 5 speed. Even Greg, who schooled us all, is running lower diff gears and a dual case Ultimate. So autos really do make a major difference in crawling ability.

I have stalled mine out ONCE. To give you an example of the reduction you can get, one of the reasons that I love my ultimate is that, when decending a high ledge, or a big drop off of any sort, I can go low low 1st, stand on the brakes with out depressing the clutch, and the truck will not stop, but will descend at the perfect speed.

The stall out was when all 4 tires were jammed up in Moab. I was trying to let the truck go up at an idle.

2 lockers and lots of gears will get you mighty far. I have had no lift up until very recently.

Nope. 8.3" axle in the non-lockers, AFAIK. Easy enough to swap the housing with the locker diff though. Be mindful of whether the housing is ABS or not; can't swap axle shafts between the two (unless you cheat like Mr. Bill has been known to do... we'll see how his works out). So after verifying gear ratios, just grab the whole shebang from the boneyard and slip it under the Runnerhiney.

x2 on Dave's post. 4runners are all 8". Only Taco's came with the 8.4.

 

[corsair23]

Vail Pass eastbound in a heavily laden Hilux trying to not get run over.

x2, only in a loaded down 80 pulling a popup...You know you are going slow when the fully loaded semis are passing YOU going up the hill

EDIT: as to a real answer, don't know...Holy Cross maybe? I've only done the easier stuff like around Ouray and local to Denver metro. I guess it depends if you are asking about technical driving, or scary off camber stuff that while isn't tough will make you pucker

 

[Tch2fly]

when decending a high ledge, or a big drop off of any sort, I can go low 1st, step on the brakes with out depressing a clutch, and the truck will not stop, but will descend at the perfect speed.

Yep me too!!

 

[subzali]

Thanks for the great info!

I have heard that Black Bear Pass's switchbacks can be so tight that it's hard for the longer vehicles like 4Runners to even take the turn. Is it a pretty difficult drive? What's the hardest drive in Colorado?

Take your pick - Blanca Peak Road, 24 Road, Independence down in Penrose, or Carnage Canyon up by Buena Vista. There may be others, but those are basically buggy roads - don't think your runner is going there anytime soon

Now for most difficult trail that Rising Sun would go to as a large group? Probably Holy Cross or Iron Chest (if it's still open). And Chinaman's and Spring Creek are getting worse over time. Every other trail (including Chinaman's and Spring Creek) my non-lifted FJ40 on 31s with a rear locker (see sig line) has gone.

Now if we talk about Moab or snow runs, that's a different story...

 

[Tch2fly]

Now for most difficult trail that Rising Sun would go to as a large group?

We need a Blanca run!

 

[AxleIke]

We need a Blanca run!

That'd be awesome!

 

[AxleIke]

Take your pick - Blanca Peak Road, 24 Road, Independence down in Penrose, or Carnage Canyon up by Buena Vista. There may be others, but those are basically buggy roads - don't think your runner is going there anytime soon

Now for most difficult trail that Rising Sun would go to as a large group? Probably Holy Cross or Iron Chest (if it's still open). And Chinaman's and Spring Creek are getting worse over time. Every other trail (including Chinaman's and Spring Creek) my non-lifted FJ40 on 31s with a rear locker (see sig line) has gone.

Now if we talk about Moab or snow runs, that's a different story...

x2.

RS guys who run the extreme trails generally do so in smaller groups, due to the nature of the trails, since the trails can take 8hrs to go a mile or less.

The hardcore group is growing though, Swoop, so, if that type of thing catches your fancy down the road, you'll likely have a great group of people to go with. Heck, right now, there is a great group you could ride along with. Riding is tons of fun on those trails, as it's not you who is breaking down!

 

[Rzeppa]

Oh, and I'm with Mike...Get an automatic - Unless you are just wanting that much more of a challenge when running trails? Imagine you are climbing a hill, with rocks, etc. and trying to gently get over the obstacles...You have to stop. With an automatic, you hit the brakes - with a manual you have to hit the brakes, push in the clutch (unless you want the engine to die anyway), and then figure out how to synch everything back up to get going again...The only way around that is what Dave mentioned earlier about lower gears in the Tcase, or a second box, or both...Can get real expensive quick. AxleIke has a video somewhere of his truck crawling along as he walks next to it...Pretty but I still prefer an auto for everyday pavement pounding which is what most of our trucks do 95% of the time

LOL!

IH8automatics

 

[Swoop]

You guys all rock with the great info and advice you've given! I can't wait to join you once I get my 4Runner.

Do most of you have 2 sets of wheels/tires - one for off-road and one for on? I wonder if my extra set of 2003 4Runner (wife's car) rims would fit a 3rd Gen 4Runner...

 

[nakman]

A few guys have multiple sets of wheels & tires, and even fewer switch them for city/mountain life. Most just run the big meats all the time..