Using GAIA on a tablet off the grid

[MountainGoat]

It is a first generation Garmin Glo. It's so old that it has a USB mini charge port on it!

I'm charging it up now for you, Matt.

https://www.amazon.com/Garmin-Portable-GLONASS-Receiver-Vehicle/dp/B00AYAZENY

 

[Hulk]

Cool, @MountainGoat! It will be interesting to see how this works with my older iPad.

 

[DaveInDenver]

My iPad didn't perform well off-grid. It was connected to the iPhone via personal hotspot. When we were cruising I-70 on the way to Moab, it seemed to get GPS position from my iPhone with no problem, updating almost as smoothly as the phone itself. But when we were off-grid, it mostly didn't update.

Feeding location data is not the same as being on a hotspot tether. Hotspot is trying to feed Internet data it gets over cell to the iPad. That's likely still relying on cell-system geolocation data. I'm not sure an iPhone as a tether is smart enough to append it's own internal GPS off grid and mimic that function like a real access point would. In my experience an iPhone is just a dumb modem as a tether.

A GPS puck is specifically feeding a stream of geolocation data into iOS's Location Services regardless if the device is tethered to a hotspot or not. It'll still work with your phone in Airplane mode, which disables the cell and WiFi radios, and only turning Bluetooth on or even completely RF silent via USB. Depending on your application you might get a GPS location and no map underneath, for example, if the app is relying on getting tiles online.

 

[fyffer]

@Mrs Hulk and I went out to Moab on the last weekend of January. We ran the first half of the 3D trail, which is mostly off-grid (no mobile service). Our iPhones with the Gaia app did fine on showing our position on the trail, regardless of whether our phones were connected to service or not.

My iPad didn't perform well off-grid. It was connected to the iPhone via personal hotspot. When we were cruising I-70 on the way to Moab, it seemed to get GPS position from my iPhone with no problem, updating almost as smoothly as the phone itself. But when we were off-grid, it mostly didn't update.

@MountainGoat, what GPS "puck" do you have? And how does it connect to your tablet? USB?

Matt, let me know if you get it to work and how.

 

[MountainGoat]

Here's the manual for y'alls reading pleasure.

 

[jps8460]

I rock an old refurbished iPad Pro 9.7 with a cellular chip in it. I think I paid like $300 for it 3 years ago or so. It’s the 256GB version. I now have it on its own cell plan so I can use it to download maps etc without linking it to my phone. For what I do it’s become indispensable. If it’s in the cards matt, use yours in the kitchen to find to recipes and whatnot and get a nav rig with a chip in it.

 

[Hulk]

I rock an old refurbished iPad Pro 9.7 with a cellular chip in it. I think I paid like $300 for it 3 years ago or so. It’s the 256GB version. I now have it on its own cell plan so I can use it to download maps etc without linking it to my phone. For what I do it’s become indispensable. If it’s in the cards matt, use yours in the kitchen to find to recipes and whatnot and get a nav rig with a chip in it.

Jackson, how well does the GPS work when you have no cell coverage? Does it still work well accurately enough that you know which way to turn when you come to a fork in the trail?

This does sound like a good plan. Besides that, my iPad Pro is simply huge -- I think it's actually too big for my dashboard setup.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Matt, the GPS reciever in phones and tablets is more than sufficient for casual use. It's essentially the same accuracy as any other consumer receiver, e.g. Garmin handhelds and that sort of thing.

This is an iPhone 12 sitting on an office desk near an east-facing window.

The main issue is antennas are major compromise in a phone compared to a dedicated device that only does one thing, be that a purpose-made handheld or a GPS puck.

So it's all about getting a view of the sky. If you have it mounted in a way that it gets blocked substantially by the roof then it will be less accurate. That's where a puck may have an advantage if you set it on the dash right at the base of the windshield or something like that. It's worth just trying as is, it might work fine.

 

[Burt88]

I thought I'd just chime in here because I love using my ipad for various navigation tasks in the truck. Mine is equipped to be linked to a cellular plan but I don't use it that way. I use wifi and hotspot from my phone if it's necessary. I very seldom have a flaw with the internal gps while navigating out of cell range using gaia or other mapping software. My guess is it gets blocked temporarily from a mountain or perhaps my roof. I'm also sure that I'm not running too much at any given time so any power or processing capacity is devoted to my task. I commonly run gaia and trailsoffroad simultaneously without flaw.

Overall I don't expect technology to perform flawlessly in my truck while in constant motion. When out wheeling and exploring I still rely on paper maps and compass. I'm actually not a big fan of tech because it's always gonna fail, at some point. Or it gives you just enough performance to leave you wanting an upgrade or additional equipment. Truth is, I probably wouldn't even have the ipad if it wasn't a gift. But it sure is fun and useful.

 

[DaveInDenver]

I use both, too. GPS complements printed maps. Even on a tablet maps displayed at small scales don't give me quite the same spatial orientation as a fold out map or atlas does. OTOH even though it's possible to navigate precisely with a detailed topo map by taking bearings the GPS is simply faster at determining which fork when you're sitting there and more immediate if you've made a wrong turn.

If I might tilt at windmills a bit I think what's been lost with GPS/Gaia/etc is the sense of just exploring and traveling. People download a track, plug it into their device and proceed to follow it. It seems like a list of trails people are running down to check off. Then again the BLM and USFS aren't helping matters by closing routes and spurs and putting up signs everywhere. You'll almost only really need Google Maps to go 'wheeling soon.

 

[DanInDenver]

For me the benefit of GPS puck and downloaded MVUMs was the ability to map out a plan to get to where I haven’t been. But not the only one. I also had the confidence to now take the left when the plan said right.
Did a lot of that time again. Get myself properly lost then use the tech to unwind it all and get home.

 

[jps8460]

Jackson, how well does the GPS work when you have no cell coverage? Does it still work well accurately enough that you know which way to turn when you come to a fork in the trail?

This does sound like a good plan. Besides that, my iPad Pro is simply huge -- I think it's actually too big for my dashboard setup.

It’s great. Plenty accurate. Don’t regret anything.

 

[fyffer]

Found this on LIFEWIRE tech forum, helpful.

Which iPad Models Have Built-In GPS?​

A built-in GPS chip is found in Apple's Wi-Fi + Cellular iPad models, which is an option for all available versions of the tablet. These devices cost more than the Wi-Fi-only versions.


Apple never stated why it doesn't include a GPS chip in the Wi-Fi-only models. It might be because many apps that use GPS for navigation and other duties draw on data from the internet, even when you're out of range of a Wi-Fi signal. This means GPS apps are effectively broken when out of Wi-Fi range on a Wi-Fi-only iPad.


You don't need to pay for a data plan for the GPS chip to work. If you get a Wi-Fi + Cellular model with no data plan, you won't receive fresh maps, points of interest, and other related data when out of Wi-Fi range.

 

[FJCDan]

I have an iPad mini which I got from comcast for free when I changed plan. It is gps,Wi-Fi and cellular, pay $10 a month for the extra line. I have gaia free version and works great.

 

[nakman]

I have a question for the Gaia experts... in the App, is there a way to show/hide specific tracks? I know how to access the layers, the toggle on/off for tracks and routes. But that is all or nothing... I just want to isolate one specific thing.

here's an example of what I'm looking at... this is the website.

And there's a little eyeball where I can toggle show/hide all my my waypoints and routes. But on my phone, there's just a toggle button for waypoints, routes, and tracks... and it's all or nothing. Super annoying when I'm actually out in the wild here navigating... as I have routes on top of routes, some from planning the trip, some from a previous trip, one is the actual trip... I'll get to a junction and not know which line to follow.

 

[Cruisertrash]

I have a question for the Gaia experts... in the App, is there a way to show/hide specific tracks? I know how to access the layers, the toggle on/off for tracks and routes. But that is all or nothing... I just want to isolate one specific thing.

here's an example of what I'm looking at... this is the website.

And there's a little eyeball where I can toggle show/hide all my my waypoints and routes. But on my phone, there's just a toggle button for waypoints, routes, and tracks... and it's all or nothing. Super annoying when I'm actually out in the wild here navigating... as I have routes on top of routes, some from planning the trip, some from a previous trip, one is the actual trip... I'll get to a junction and not know which line to follow.

On my phone I have 5 icons on the bottom, one of them being a folder labeled “Saved”. If I click on that I can see a list of every track and waypoint that I’ve ever saved and I’m able to view/hide each one of them (the eyeball you mentioned).

At home I organize things into folders which makes navigating the Saved menu much easier. I’ll put all waypoints and routes for one trip into a folder. That way it can be turned on and off as a whole.


Wait … as it turns out, you can View/Hide individual routes and folders in that Saved area - but not waypoints.

Below you can see the view/toggle eyeball next to the route, but NOT the waypoints. Clicking the three dots by the waypoint doesn’t bring up any useful way to view/hide.

You CAN, however, toggle view/hide on folders … and you can put waypoints in them … and toggling the folder will toggle all of the contents … including waypoints. Look under the title of each folder, for example “Sawatch Run”: it lists the contents as including 7 waypoints. They definitely toggle with the folder, can confirm. So there’s an effective way to handle waypoints, even if it’s more work. Although being organized never hurt anyone.

 

[AimCOTaco]

I have a question for the Gaia experts... in the App, is there a way to show/hide specific tracks? I know how to access the layers, the toggle on/off for tracks and routes. But that is all or nothing... I just want to isolate one specific thing.

here's an example of what I'm looking at... this is the website.

And there's a little eyeball where I can toggle show/hide all my my waypoints and routes. But on my phone, there's just a toggle button for waypoints, routes, and tracks... and it's all or nothing. Super annoying when I'm actually out in the wild here navigating... as I have routes on top of routes, some from planning the trip, some from a previous trip, one is the actual trip... I'll get to a junction and not know which line to follow.

Tim,

You need to organize into some folders, then you can set full folders as visible or not visible, can capture tracks, waypoints, etc this way. Example, I have the stuff you send me in a folder, then I can turn "Tim" on and off.

Also keep in mind the web interface and each app interface is slightly different and not all functinality is uniform across them (function or interface).

 

[nakman]

Ok cool thanks guys, I will look at the folder thing. My other issue is my phone doesn't appear to be syncing... even manually... so not sure if I need to re install the app or what but once I get that sorted, will get back to my view preferences. there's a reason we don't do this the night before the trip!

 

[AimCOTaco]

Yeah, the new app version has some login weirdness and a new home social feature so you probably do need to un-install and re-install to fix.

And yeah, test early and test often! Gaia has drawn some ire for poor updates and quality recently leaving some off grid users a little hot.

 

[nakman]

Ok, folders ftw! still have some cleanup to do, but I have a bit of sanity back on the phone now... phew.