The synthetic winch line official thread

[rover67]

Went with the Suplerline XD synthetic for the Ptarmigan after talking to Ben and Joe about what to buy. The knot is a double half hitch. It looks like their military XD line is spliced but this version is not. As far as it being filed splice-able, all you would need to know is how to tie a half hitch. One of the biggest advantages is that this rope won't flatten out on the last few wraps on the drum making it easier to work with. The abrasion and UV protection are nice too. From what I have read on the boat forums, the knot = 35% less strength than a splice.

http://www.masterpull.com/cpage.cfm?cpid=478

5/16" @ 21,000lb breaking strength -

-The Superline XD synthetic winch line is manufactured with the most advanced technology in synthetic rope manufacturing today. The rope starts as a larger diameter line and is heated and stretched down to its final diameter, just like our regular Superline. This process gives the Superline XD an excellent breaking strength since it has the strength of a larger diameter line in a smaller diameter. The pre-stretching also gives the rope better abrasion resistance compared to normal Dyneema winch ropes.​

-For even more abrasion resistance, the rope has a tightly braided cover along the whole length of the rope. This cover gives the inner Superline core excellent protection against abrasion, especially abrasion from dirt and sand. With coverless winch lines, dirt and sand can get lodged in between the strands of the rope and can cause fraying, which in some cases leads to a 20% loss in the rope's breaking strength. The Superline XD cover keeps dirt and sand out of the core and prevents this abrasion from happening. It also gives the inner core complete protection from UV rays. Ultimately this means that if used properly, the Superline XD will last much longer than a normal winch line, and you won't have to replace your line nearly as often.​

That stuff looks nice man. Mine flattens out a lot on the winch drum, and I think about UV degredation a lot as it sits spooled up semi uncovered. Looke like both issues are addressed.

 

[corsair23]

Went with the Suplerline XD synthetic for the Ptarmigan after talking to Ben and Joe about what to buy.

- Crickey that is expensive stuff

I looked at that for about a nano-second but they don't make 7/16" XD and the 3/8" stuff I'd need runs close to $600 for 100'

 

[corsair23]

Just stick with the 7/16th's and know you have an extra safety factor built in.

I would go 3/8 and you could always increase the strength of the 3/8's to the 7/16 equivalent line by using the masterpull line. http://www.masterpull.com/cpage.cfm?cpid=197.

Spoke with Thor at winchline.com (Viking Offroad)...

Asked about going down in size from the 7/16" that is on the winch now to 3/8". He doesn't recommend doing so but up to me

I'm vain and found out that the 3/8" stuff is available in black - Black winchline on a black truck adds to the factor but puts the line's strength near the winch's max pulling capability

Also asked him about a heat guard for the first layer of rope. They don't believe in them (anymore - use to offer it) because typically the nylon heat guard melts at about the same temp as the winchline and doesn't shield the line from the heat...There are higher temp protective solutions according to Thor but they are generally cost prohibitive. His suggestion is to be careful on powered out use and follow the winch manufacturer's guidelines for loaded powered out use (maybe 20 secs at a time max...have to look that up)

Also asked him about enough length of abrasion guard to cover the first layer of rope while it sits on the drum...They sell it in 8' sections and can't go longer (but you can do multiple lengths) because as it is at 8' they require special tools to get the abrasion guard on. I recall having fun getting a 10' section on my last rope so this makes some sense. As another idea he mentioned getting a winch line cover to protect the rope. Not real fond of the look though - Warn makes whole winch covers (have one on my M8274) but they are designed to go on winches that have been mounted feet down vs. feet forward.


So now I'm at a point...Go for the vain and factor and get the 3/8" black or go for the safety factor and get the 7/16" blue? - Length will be 100' regardless. If I won the lottery I'd get the Masterpull XD stuff but too much for me right now - Plus I want to go with the safety thimble and Viking seems to be the only one that offers it

 

[corsair23]

So now I'm at a point...Go for the vain and factor and get the 3/8" black or go for the safety factor and get the 7/16" blue? - Length will be 100' regardless. If I won the lottery I'd get the Masterpull XD stuff but too much for me right now - Plus I want to go with the safety thimble and Viking seems to be the only one that offers it

Yeah, I'm overthinking it right? Just go with the 7/16" blue and call it good

 

[rover67]

Get the 7/16 blue stuff and go to REI and get some black nylon webbing (not the flat stuff, but the tubular type) to use as the UV guard for the last wrap.

My winchline came with some ugly yellow nylon webbing that has been on there for a while. It works OK.

I like having line that is way overrated for the winch.... hearing the steel cable ping and pop under stress with that winch was unnerving.. with the synthetic that's slightly oversize I feel like I never have to worry even if I'm pulling on the last wrap at close to stalling the winch.

 

[Hulk]

Yeah, I'm overthinking it right? Just go with the 7/16" blue and call it good

Jeff, I think I have the 3/8" -- does the 15,000 lb. winch require the 7/16"? Your 80 is probably lighter than mine. I bet the 3/8" would be just fine.

 

[corsair23]

Jeff, I think I have the 3/8" -- does the 15,000 lb. winch require the 7/16"? Your 80 is probably lighter than mine. I bet the 3/8" would be just fine.

Yeah, you probably have the 3/8" as that is what comes on a M12K wire wise. As for whether the M15K requires 7/16"...Realistically you can put whatever size you want on any winch if you're willing to take the chance of it breaking (not than correct sized rope can't break).

The 3/8" syn rope is good for ~17.6k lbs depending on what site you read. 7/16" is good for ~21.5k lbs. Masterpull lists their basic stuff at 18k and 23.8k respectively. IMO those are just numbers and rely on whoever is posting them to be honest with the number. I got the impression from Thor that they underrate what they sell rather than inflate. As Thor told me, he'll sell me whatever I want but wanted to make sure I understood the possible ramifications. Price wise the 3/8" and 7/16" rope is w/in $11 of each other for 100'.

Thor's concern is that syn rope is more susceptible to chafing. He said if you chafe just a 6" section of the rope it would affect all strands since they intertwine. That chafe could weaken the rope by 10% or more which for the 3/8" would put the rope right near what my winch can dish out . Not a problem if I'm winching 6k lbs up a slight incline but could be a problem if I'm trying to unstick myself from the snow.

I wouldn't be real happy with myself snapping a $400 winchline because I went for the factor over the safety factor

But then I think, the 3/8" syn rope is actually stronger than the wire rope that is on the winch now so what is the big deal

 

[corsair23]

Get the 7/16 blue stuff and go to REI and get some black nylon webbing (not the flat stuff, but the tubular type) to use as the UV guard for the last wrap.

I'll probably just get an extra section of the Viking stuff, although the REI approach sounds like a good solution. I'm on the hunt for some 1st layer heat guard stuff though. Found some hits on the web last night so we'll see. Honestly for the # of times I'll probably ever use the winch I'm going overkill but better prepared than not

 

[rover67]

I just got some of this stuff to slip over some wiring that was near my headers..

http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/32012/10002/-1

it's a fiberglass looking woven sleeve on the inside coated in a silicone looking stuff. maybe the first wrap of winchline could have this slipped over it? I wonder how it'd hold up under there.

I don't have anything in between my winchline and the drum.. but I don't power out for more than a few seconds to unspool tight spots.

I've never had to lower the rig or somebody elses rig, but I haven't wheeled a whole lot. In normal winching the drum has stayed really cool. last weekend i did quite a bit of winching followed by pulling cable back down to the first wrap, then long winching and pulling it down to the first wrap again and the drum was still pretty cool.

 

[Uncle Ben]

I just got some of this stuff to slip over some wiring that was near my headers..

http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/32012/10002/-1

it's a fiberglass looking woven sleeve on the inside coated in a silicone looking stuff. maybe the first wrap of winchline could have this slipped over it? I wonder how it'd hold up under there.

I don't have anything in between my winchline and the drum.. but I don't power out for more than a few seconds to unspool tight spots.

I've never had to lower the rig or somebody elses rig, but I haven't wheeled a whole lot. In normal winching the drum has stayed really cool. last weekend i did quite a bit of winching followed by pulling cable back down to the first wrap, then long winching and pulling it down to the first wrap again and the drum was still pretty cool.

Powering out just is not very common unless you have to lower the rig down a hill. Guess that might have a need someday but I've never witnessed anyone ever doing it. Normal operation should not cause the brake to drag and cause heat.

 

[corsair23]

I just got some of this stuff to slip over some wiring that was near my headers..

http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/32012/10002/-1

it's a fiberglass looking woven sleeve on the inside coated in a silicone looking stuff. maybe the first wrap of winchline could have this slipped over it? I wonder how it'd hold up under there.

Thats looks a lot like some of the stuff I found

As for how necessary this is...Probably not much and I may never have a need to "use" it if I never have to lower someone down a hill. But one thing I came away with from GTR '09 with was to be as prepared as possible - Since I am redoing my winch now is the perfect time to do this.

I don't wheel much, and I use my winch even less, but in my short 3 years in the club I've witnessed in person one occassion where someone had to be winched down an obstacle (the waterfall on Poison Spider) and then the Spooky Night Run last year Subzali had to do it. The chances that it will ever be me needing to do that are probably less than me winning the lottery but if that times ever comes I can say I am ready

 

[powderpig]

Only in the Monkey Wrench Gang did they talk about lowering the jeep over a cliff for 70-80 ft

 

[nakman]

Thats looks a lot like some of the stuff I found

As for how necessary this is...Probably not much and I may never have a need to "use" it if I never have to lower someone down a hill. But one thing I came away with from GTR '09 with was to be as prepared as possible - Since I am redoing my winch now is the perfect time to do this.

I don't wheel much, and I use my winch even less, but in my short 3 years in the club I've witnessed in person one occassion where someone had to be winched down an obstacle (the waterfall on Poison Spider) and then the Spooky Night Run last year Subzali had to do it. The chances that it will ever be me needing to do that are probably less than me winning the lottery but if that times ever comes I can say I am ready

Jeff, just curious what were the circumstances that forced someone to be winched down the waterfall? Did they just get off the line, or broken somehow? I admit, that's a definite pucker and it's tough to know how high up the wall to stay before turning down..

 

[corsair23]

Only in the Monkey Wrench Gang did they talk about lowering the jeep over a cliff for 70-80 ft

I was hoping Mr. Toyota Trails Tech Editor and recovery dood extraiordinaire would give me his professional opinion on this

Jeff, just curious what were the circumstances that forced someone to be winched down the waterfall? Did they just get off the line, or broken somehow? I admit, that's a definite pucker and it's tough to know how high up the wall to stay before turning down..

My very first CM event...Second trail ever driven in the LX and this

Waterfall on Poison Spider Mesa - first couple minutes of the video

Nathaniel could probably fill in the blanks but from what I recall it was the driver not following the spotter's instructions although if you look in the video comments the driver who posted up blamed it on the spotter...Watching the video again, this probably didn't heat the drum up enough to be affect the rope.

The heat guard is just a "nice to add while I'm there" thing once I settle on which rope size to go with...Stupid M15K making me overthink things...But hey, I can recreate the scene from "The Gods Must Be Crazy" if I ever want to

 

[Convert]

[QUOTE)...Stupid M15K making me overthink things.:[/QUOTE]

Jeff
You are correct you are over thinking. Synthetic is lighter and stronger than cable of the same size it is also much safer.Compare the specs of 3/8" cable to 3/8" rope. The issues with heat on the drum are are minimal compared to to the big picture. I have had 2 rigs with different brands of synthetic rope that the winch was used quite a bit and neither rope has failed to date (son in law has the H**p now). Also you can not look at this as a lifetime purchase this is an expendable item just like all rigging equipment. IE Strap have wear indicators in them to inform you that they need replaced. Hope my 2 cents helps.

 

[nakman]

Ah so! Yes, the higher line near the wall is a lot better..

 

[corsair23]

Hope my 2 cents helps.

So you're saying I'll be ok with the 3/8"?

Guess I've beaten this dead horse enough huh...It is so unlike me to struggle with making a decision - I'll just have to surprise everyone with what I buy

 

[wesintl]

stick with gac.. it's brand new. no reason to replace it other than to hang with

 

[Rzeppa]

stick with gac.. it's brand new. no reason to replace it other than to hang with

With a winch with brand-new GAC, yeah I'd keep it for sure. After handling GAC for so many years, well, it's kinda like vintage bias-ply tires. When they're worn out, glad to replace 'em with radials. I love my Synth, but got great use out of the GAC. When it's time to replace - upgrade.

 

[corsair23]

stick with gac.. it's brand new

I thought about it...several times now...But I've given away all my roller fairlead stuff to make it work with my ARB and the roller fairlead that came with the M15K will go with the XD9000 so...yeah, I'm justifying dropping the on the synthetic but a little color is our lives is good