Tacoma Frame Rust

[AxleIke]

The more I think about the more I convince myself to do something. I'm gathering stuff to clean up the rust, paint it and rustproof it. So might as well do some frame strengthening now before I coat everything and put the camper on it.

Yes, you are right Nakman...

From what I see fully boxing in the frame might be more work than I think is necessary, though (would prefer not to remove the box for one). You have more experience with Tacos than me. I'd want to retain the stock BPV, shock, gas tank and spare mounts.

That isn't a problem.

I've also seen people weld reinforcement to the outside of the frame over the axles. Does this really help prevent the frame from rippling under the box? If so this might be an option that's easier and achieves some of the benefits. I'll probably order up CBI's plates, I like the looks of them.

Boxing the frame helps with frame flex. It is designed to stiffen the frame to prevent twisting. plating the outside will help a little with this because it is harder to twist a thicker piece of material. It will certainly help with the "tearing" issue, if the plates go across the weakened area, and don't terminate at the area of concern.

Honestly, for your use, A plate across the outside should take care of the concern. The twisting is going to be an issue if you are seriously rock crawling, hauling heavy loads, and are pushing a ton of horse power. From what I know of your intended use, boxing everything in may be overkill. But, up to you.

http://www.cbioffroadfab.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=98

I also see some people reinforce the front frame horns. I might one day put a bumper on, but even if not, is this section of frame known to be weak in a non-SAS situation? What about the section that transitions down from the box to parallel under the cab, forward of the spring hanger? Isn't that the spot where most frames eventually rust and bend?

In my opinion, this is not worth doing on the front, but a plate across the transition from cab to box could be worthwhile. There is nothing up front to stress the frame on these trucks (non SAS), except an aftermarket bumper and winch, but that can be fixed if you decide to go that route down the road. Even there, it would take a lot of winching to mess up the frame. My dad's 04 has a 4WC Hawk in the bed, and an ARB with a winch, and we've done a couple of good pulls on it, plus it got whacked in a parking lot ( direct side hit to the ARB by a plow truck) pretty good, and absolutely no frame damage, bumper was easily repaired at a shop, and it was all good to go. But, easy enough to do if you want to.

Replied bold

 

[AxleIke]

Oh, and one last thing is that, while removing the box is a little bit of a PITA, it certainly will make any welding easier for whomever does the work. And, the box really isn't that hard to get off, but does take a couple people.

 

[DaveInDenver]

I guess I should clarify, I don't mind taking off the box to work on the truck. I just hesitate to avoid biting off more than I can deal with. We moved last summer up north (almost in Ft. Collins) and I'm still working on a hoist (which I need for the WilderNest anyway). It's gonna have to be outside, the new (old) house is not built nearly as solidly as the old (old) house, eye-bolts in the garage ceiling won't cut it here.

Hmm. I definitely like the idea of boxing in the frame, that is the way frames are supposed to built. At this point there won't be a swing out bumper or long range fuel tank, but there will be a camper, fridge and hitch rack for the bikes. I don't travel light, either. Geez, I know, I know.

So are frame plates AND boxing overkill? Thinking stages, gussets now, inner plates down the road when I get ready for suspension. Think a couple of people could remove the box, weld on side plates and put the box back on in a day? I really need the truck ready for road trips by May, so whatever I plan should be straightforward and doable.

On the front, I know guys do some work on the frame horns when they put on an ARB and I'd do the same. Don't they usually close up the ends, too? I have no intention of crawling this truck, it's gotta stay manageable for road trips and she's OK with us keeping Imelda as long as the new truck remaining something she can drive... So the old truck won't have a topper on it and I expect that it'll get used for chores and day trips.

 

[AxleIke]

Boxing will accomplish all you want in the rear. I would only add additional plate where the rust issues are. Maybe one more over the cab/box interface.

2 people can remove a bed, 4 makes it much easier. I'd recommend 4. The bed does not weigh that much, but I prefer the control 4 people gives, to prevent damaging the bed by smacking things, etc... Also, a set of sturdy saw horses is key. You don't want to just set the bed on the ground.

A day is certainly doable, provided there aren't major issues. If you are set on a 1 day turn around, plan to start early, and before the day, make sure you can get all the bed bolts loose, find and disconnect the body harness (tail lights, etc...), and pull the filler neck. That way if there is anything stuck or siezed, you can get it hit with penetrating oil, and go get spares if something breaks.

If anything is too siezed, or it get to be too much, the bed can certainly be left on.

Also, pull the shocks out, don't want hotness around those.

Anyway, that's how I go about getting a quick project ready, by trying to think through problem areas (rusted stuff) before hand, and get after it so I go into the project day prepared.

Anyway, thats all just my .02. Certainly take it for what it is worth.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Your dos pesos are worth a lot to me, Isaac, you of all people have no need to qualify your advice. ;-)

My thinking right now is it's most important to do some sort of strengthening of the frame. I know boxing is best and probably inevitable. Plates are a band-aid and not a complete solution. Still, a lot of people have been successful in stiffening the frame, taking out most of the twist just doing gussets on the outside.

I am constrained to trying to finish the fab part in a day if I want to do it now. Which means allowing for FUBARs, painting, etc. it's at least a weekend project. I think it's easier to justify doing plates more-or-less correctly right now than hoping to pull off a proper boxing of the frame even in a weekend. If (when) I box in the frame I want to consider maybe moving shocks, maybe a custom cross member for a second fuel tank. Not to mention things like bracket alignments and customization that boxing surely will involve. Adding plates by themselves is a lot of work but there seems to be a pretty low risk of major gotchas tangents that derail summer plans...

I'd also like to get a few miles of seat time before deciding. I mean, for Goodness sake, I still have temp tags on the thing and just 106.7K on the clock (just 200 of which are mine). If I can keep the frame sound for a few years more I have plenty of time to go crazy on it. I think plates on the outside buy me that time.

 

[rover67]

i'd be willing to help. we could use my place if ya'll wanted.

 

[DaveInDenver]

More reason why one does not buy trucks that come from SLC, UT.

Anyone got a trick for getting a spray-in bed liner off?

 

[rover67]

maybe the dry ice trick?

bummer dude....

 

[Jacket]

Is that a mount point for the bed, or just a random hole that formed?

Would an extra hot heat gun turn it to goo so that you could scrape it? Or an angle grinder with a wire wheel?

 

[SteveH]

On Mud, it seems like most people use a wire wheel. Would paint stripper (with methylene chloride) attack it? I'd apply some, and then put a couple layers of Handi-wrap over the stripper to help the MC stay put and attack the bedliner for 30 minutes.

 

[DaveInDenver]

It's a hole that formed along a seam in the bed where the floor and the wheel well meet. This is a support channel underneath where it looks like gunk collected and the rust just found a void or scratch or something and I suppose has been just munching for a while.

I was packing the truck for the weekend and noticed a bubble that seems sorta soft, so took a chance fearing the worst and cut into it. Pulled out what I could and painted the whole thing with rust converting prep and covered it with duct tape. I tapped the rest of the floor and didn't feel anything else, but will start peeling off the bed liner.

Or maybe just buy a new bed from Toyota...

I'll have to investigate more but my first thought is based on how easy it was to peel off what I did that dry ice and trying to take it off in chunks would be most successful. Seems heat and chemicals that soften will just result in a mess.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Still looking at Tacomas since selling that 2001.

Apparently this is still an issue. What the heck, Toyota? They worry about Pandora radio and key fobs but their truck frames are rotting. Apparently Dana didn't clean stamping press lube from the frames before coating them, which rendered them essentially unprotected.

There is a limited service campaign, SC-E0D, under which 2nd gen Tacomas in several states are getting replacement frames.

http://www.thecarconnection.com/new...tacoma-could-have-frame-rust-may-get-free-fix

States included in letter.

CT. DE. IL. IN. KY. MA. MD. ME. MI. MN. NH. NJ. NY. OH. PA. RI. VA. VT. WI. WV.

Letter reads

Toyota has received reports that certain 2005 through 2009 model year Tacoma vehicles operated in specific cold climate areas with high road salt use may exhibit more-than-normal corrosion to the vehicles frame. Toyota investigated these reports and determined that the frames in some vehicles may not have corrosion-resistant protection sufficient for use in these areas.

This combined with prolonged exposure to road salts and other environmental factors, may contribute to the development of more-than-normal rust in the frame of some vehicles. This condition is unrelated to and seperate from normal surface rust which is commonly found on metallic surfaces after some years of usage and/or exposure to the environment.

 

[TIMZTOY]

i have bought 2 toyota that toyota would deem dead.. and i have even replaced an entier frame on a tacoma when working at the dealer..
i dont mind the rust as i can fix it.. its really easy. as the bad structural rust in isolated to the gap between the bed and cab. at the spring hanger location..

i say this next part like its no big deal. because to me its not and i can do it all in 1 day.

remove the bed, drop the gas tank, grind down the scale and flake.
cut out the bad sesction with a cut off wheel (typically the size of a football)
clean out the inside of the frame of all deprix por15 as much as you like and plate the frame with a 1/8" steel at liest 2" larger than your hole. treat the side and bottom as seprate repairs. it trully isnt a bad fix..

the spare tire carrier also gets it real bad.. i just cut it down and remove it compleatlly as we dont run stock size tires anyways.. and i plate that part of the frame as well for strength and add a tube to mount the shocks..
done in 1 day if you bust ass.

my newest taco has it the worst
it has it in the typical rear locations but also has it in the front by the firewall.. i have never seen it in the front before.. but it trully isnt nothing to be scared about or loose sleep on. because the fix is way stronger than the orgional.. i had holes (solid hole you can put your fist threw) about 10-14" long and 4-5" tall on the inside (both sides). and 2x8" on the bottom.. i even had to replace the spring hanger on one truck
but thats what converting to chevy 63" are for

 

[SteveH]

Frame rust photo -

I just returned from a trip to Scotland, and while there are only a handful of Toyotas in the country, this one struck me as interesting. Not sure how old it is, but check out the frame rust in the back in the last photo!

I would have taken more pictures, but I didn't want to explain to the fire/rescue crew what I was doing, so I snapped one and left.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Reminder, keep after that frame rust on your Tacomas! Wire brush, good wash and some paint every summer. Happen to be putting on springs and shocks so this summer I'm getting after sections I normally can't, like inside the shock mount and behind the spring shackle. And don't forget this was just inspected under the frame corrosion recall and deemed normal by Toyota.

You have to watch the welds, it seems Dana/Toyota either can't get them clean prior to coating or the paint just isn't adhering well. But I've also had bubbles starting right in the middle of the sides of the frame, so it's just a matter of a pinhole or chip, too.

 

[DaveInDenver]

After wire brush, some light sanding and paint.

 

[2xfai]

Hello,

I am thinking about purchasing a 2005 Tacoma double cab TRD from one of my dad's buddies. The car was purchased new by my dad's friend in Washington state. After a year, it was driven to Baja (near Cabo), and kept there ever since.

My dad's buddy is fastidious about taking care of the car and as far as I know, it's in really good shape. It's got ~60,000 miles on it and has always been garaged.

I may buy it and drive it back to Colorado to use as my daily driver, including during winter.

My dad's friend plans to take the car to the Toyota dealership in Cabo later this month to have the spring leafs inspected for rust per the recall letter he received. I plan to ask the dealership to give the truck a full inspection at that time.

I've been reading about the frame rust issue and have some questions for you all.

--How does Toyota treat second owners when it comes to recalls? Exactly as if I were the original owner?

--If the truck doesn't have any rust issues now, but develops catastrophic frame rust sometime in the future, how will Toyota react? Does the recall have a specific time or mileage deadline? For a 2005 truck with 60,000 miles, how much more time
or mileage would Toyota allow before telling me I'm out of luck?

Anything else I should be concerned about?

Thanks for your help.

 

[White Stripe]

Toyota is no longer assisting owners with rusted frames in any way as far as I know. The extended warranty has expired.

 

[SteveH]

--If the truck doesn't have any rust issues now, but develops catastrophic frame rust sometime in the future, how will Toyota react?

With proper inspection and rustproofing, you can prevent future frame rust issues, but if it has been near a coastal area, you will want to inspect thoroughly before buying (as you are doing) and then keep a close eye on it, and apply paint/grease as required to stop future rust.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Toyota is no longer assisting owners with rusted frames in any way as far as I know. The extended warranty has expired.

The inspect by date is passed for 2005 through 2008, March 31, 2016 I believe, and was elapsed some time ago for 1995 through 2004.

If a 1995 through 2008 has been inspected per Toyota's limited service campaign requirements then it is eligible for a 15 year extended perforation warranty. Meaning if it does rust through within 15 years of being put in service (basically 15 years after it's model year for practical purposes) it may get a new frame. The 1995 to 2000 trucks just got a buy-back at some multiplier of value and are now out of warranty but the 2001 to 2008 trucks still get new frames if they need them.

There are second generations getting new frames currently. There is no word on when or if 2009+ trucks might start seeing this issue. Toyota assured buyers that the 2005-2008 had solved the problem but that wasn't the case. I got mine inspected about a year ago now and it passed with no significant perforation found but I've been cleaning, repainting and spraying corrosion preventive whenever I work underneath it. I posted an example of this earlier in the thread. It did start to develop some small bubble cancer rust on the outside of the frame rails after last winter that got brushed to metal, primed, painted and coated but otherwise it's just been superficial surface rust on the welds that hasn't been deep.

In the case of 2xfai's truck you would have to plug the VIN into Toyota's database to see if it was ever inspected. If so then it would be potentially covered under the rust-through warranty. If it has not been inspected in Toyota records then it will not be. The test is to literally hit several identified locations with a hammer to check for holes. One easy to see and check is the inner frame rail behind the catalytic converters. Others you want to check are the inside and outside over the rear axle back to the rear bumper and the boxed sections from the engine mounts on the inside back to under the cab. Poke at them and look closely for bubbles, the perforations are difficult to see visually but the scale will come off relatively easily if it's there. The paint will be probably be adhered the rust, so it's not easy to just see, you have to dig at it. In some cases back east whole sections of frame will fall away with the black paint still covering it but there's literally nothing but iron oxide powder behind it.

BTW, from a warranty standpoint the current owner is treated the same as the original buyer. If the truck was inspected and fails down the road, you should get a new frame. If it was not, you're out of luck. The cost for a frame replacement if done at a dealer is something like $12,000. If that is the case finding a used frame or welding scab plates over sections of rust-through are probably more cost effective.