Proposal to adopt an additional trail.

[rover67]

Like UB said it is always the same folks volunteering and adding a 3rd trail wouldn't be a good idea as it increases the burden for those who can spare the time to volunteer.

This was kind-of what I was getting at with my comment..

It's not meant as a knock on those who can't attend or never have, just an observation on available resources and workload. I get it that some folks can't make it for whatever reason, that's honestly OK with me.

 

[HoneyBadger]

Ok. Let me see if I can clear some of this up.

-Regardless of what some folks may have seen on a website somewhere, Kingston Peak is currently not "officially adopted" by anyone. That's why we're having this discussion to begin with.

-We're not going to change our admission requirements to include mandatory "cleanup run hours". Logistically this will not be practical and will alienate people who would otherwise be active in our club in other areas. Ultimately yes, there is a core group of folks who usually show up for cleanup runs. And to those folks we are always very grateful. Does that mean that people who don't come to clean up runs are somehow second-class citizens? Hell No! Every member of our club is important. I know everyone has different schedules. When I schedule a cleanup run, I know that not everyone is going to be able to make it. And I'm fine with that.

-We have plenty of manpower in this club to hold down three trails. I want to encourage everyone to come out and have a good time if at all possible.

-Every club run is a cleanup run, if you think about it. To that point, even when there's just one person out by themselves, we all pick up trash all the time. Officially adopting a trail means that once a year someone, even if it's just me by myself with the FS rep, will be replacing signage and assessing possible trail damage or other issues that may need to be addressed. Every once in a while there will be special projects to do on this "official" run. For example, new fencing at Jenny Creek or the installation of bird houses this summer on Argentine.

-The real underlying reasons for adopting this trail, or any trail, are to:
A- Use our club's size and influence to do as much good as possible.
B- Show the FS that we really mean business and are willing to put the time in to preserve our trails.
C- Building our reputation as one of Colorado's leading off-road clubs.
D- Help assuage the stigmatism that all off-roaders are reckless hooligans.

 

[DouglasVB]

Well I'm still for Kingston Peak. I really want to commit to leading the annual cleanup effort on it but I have to sit on my hands because my work schedule is so variable that I'm afraid of over-promising and under-delivering to the club, the FS, and the larger community. I'll definitely assist if someone else is in a position to take leadership.

 

[nuclearlemon]

90ish members and its the same handful of people on the work groups. Without volunteers many more trails would be closed and closing. Giving back is like doing dishes after you eat!

BINGO!! we all clean up when we're riding trails, but without a commitment to the government, it won't help keep specific trails open. without turning in your hours when you do clean up, it won't help show that we do a lot of work for the government.

no one likes the political b.s., but it has to be done.

jenny creek would most likely be closed if bill morgan hadn't fought so hard for us to adopt it. boulder county didn't want it adopted because it's harder to close trails when there's a club with a contract to maintain that trail. sorry. sad facts are if we want it open, someone has to fight and if everyone else says 'let someone else do it', there will be no one to fight the closures.

i understand people are busy. i've worked six day work weeks on and off for years, but i've still made many of the cleanups throughout the years and see the same people there year after year. i find it hard to believe that people can't ever make a cleanup run. heck i still make time to attend the trail cleanups and i'm not even a member of the club anymore.

it can be hard work....most of the time it's not. try it, you might like it.

 

[mikeyhcrana]

They might have well closed Jenny Creek. In fact they did. Just cause they made another route through the forest by cutting down a bunch of trees and making a tree stumps trail doesn't mean it's still open. What we lost with the old trail is tragic. It fustrated me that the 4wd community ignored the closing of Jenny Creek because it was rerouted, no it was closed, it's not the same just because it still ends up at Yankee Doidle Lake, we could just use Rollins pass to get there.

And I only enjoy washing dishes because I don't have to. If it was required, I would hate it. And if it's required it would be called cumpulsary not voluntary. It feels good to help when you can not when you have to.

Thanks for the clarification Travis, you actually sway me to wish I might have voted yes with the added clarity and your confidence in our manpower. And Kingston Peak is just a way better trail now.

 

[subzali]

I believe when we sign up for adopt a roads technically we are supposed to commit to 2 clean up days a year. I would have to check the paperwork though to be sure. If that's the case then we have already committed to 4 work days a year, now we would be jumping to 6.

Also, Travis indicated that there is interest from other clubs in adopting Kingston, Brant just came to us first. So we're not going to lose that trail if we don't adopt it. In this case there actually is someone else who will take care of it

 

[nuclearlemon]

They might have well closed Jenny Creek. In fact they did. Just cause they made another route through the forest by cutting down a bunch of trees and making a tree stumps trail doesn't mean it's still open. What we lost with the old trail is tragic. It fustrated me that the 4wd community ignored the closing of Jenny Creek because it was rerouted, no it was closed, it's not the same just because it still ends up at Yankee Doidle Lake, we could just use Rollins pass to get there.

And I only enjoy washing dishes because I don't have to. If it was required, I would hate it. And if it's required it would be called cumpulsary not voluntary. It feels good to help when you can not when you have to.

Thanks for the clarification Travis, you actually sway me to wish I might have voted yes with the added clarity and your confidence in our manpower. And Kingston Peak is just a way better trail now.

jenny creek is open. just because you don't like it doesn't make the trail closed. yes, the swath of destruction is not pretty, but choices were re-routing or closure.

 

[rover67]

jenny creek is open. just because you don't like it doesn't make the trail closed. yes, the swath of destruction is not pretty, but choices were re-routing or closure.

Exactly, and we worked pretty hard to keep it open.

 

[Squishy!]

Ok. Let me see if I can clear some of this up. -Regardless of what some folks may have seen on a website somewhere, Kingston Peak is currently not "officially adopted" by anyone. That's why we're having this discussion to begin with. -We're not going to change our admission requirements to include mandatory "cleanup run hours". Logistically this will not be practical and will alienate people who would otherwise be active in our club in other areas. Ultimately yes, there is a core group of folks who usually show up for cleanup runs. And to those folks we are always very grateful. Does that mean that people who don't come to clean up runs are somehow second-class citizens? Hell No! Every member of our club is important. I know everyone has different schedules. When I schedule a cleanup run, I know that not everyone is going to be able to make it. And I'm fine with that. -We have plenty of manpower in this club to hold down three trails. I want to encourage everyone to come out and have a good time if at all possible. -Every club run is a cleanup run, if you think about it. To that point, even when there's just one person out by themselves, we all pick up trash all the time. Officially adopting a trail means that once a year someone, even if it's just me by myself with the FS rep, will be replacing signage and assessing possible trail damage or other issues that may need to be addressed. Every once in a while there will be special projects to do on this "official" run. For example, new fencing at Jenny Creek or the installation of bird houses this summer on Argentine. -The real underlying reasons for adopting this trail, or any trail, are to: A- Use our club's size and influence to do as much good as possible. B- Show the FS that we really mean business and are willing to put the time in to preserve our trails. C- Building our reputation as one of Colorado's leading off-road clubs. D- Help assuage the stigmatism that all off-roaders are reckless hooligans.

Well said Travis. This is the essence of being a steward to the land and to our sport.

BINGO!! we all clean up when we're riding trails, but without a commitment to the government, it won't help keep specific trails open. without turning in your hours when you do clean up, it won't help show that we do a lot of work for the government. no one likes the political b.s., but it has to be done. jenny creek would most likely be closed if bill morgan hadn't fought so hard for us to adopt it. boulder county didn't want it adopted because it's harder to close trails when there's a club with a contract to maintain that trail. sorry. sad facts are if we want it open, someone has to fight and if everyone else says 'let someone else do it', there will be no one to fight the closures. i understand people are busy. i've worked six day work weeks on and off for years, but i've still made many of the cleanups throughout the years and see the same people there year after year. i find it hard to believe that people can't ever make a cleanup run. heck i still make time to attend the trail cleanups and i'm not even a member of the club anymore. it can be hard work....most of the time it's not. try it, you might like it.

Again, very well said. And thanks for reminding the club what it took to keep JC open. The politics suck, but in this world if that's the battlefield to keep these trails open, bring it on. I'm all for it.

 

[Squishy!]

They might have well closed Jenny Creek. In fact they did. Just cause they made another route through the forest by cutting down a bunch of trees and making a tree stumps trail doesn't mean it's still open. What we lost with the old trail is tragic. It fustrated me that the 4wd community ignored the closing of Jenny Creek because it was rerouted, no it was closed, it's not the same just because it still ends up at Yankee Doidle Lake, we could just use Rollins pass to get there. And I only enjoy washing dishes because I don't have to. If it was required, I would hate it. And if it's required it would be called cumpulsary not voluntary. It feels good to help when you can not when you have to. Thanks for the clarification Travis, you actually sway me to wish I might have voted yes with the added clarity and your confidence in our manpower. And Kingston Peak is just a way better trail now.

Mike I know you mean well and have passion for our sport, but please realize that this club put tremendous personal effort into Jenny Creek and will continue to do so for years because we do not share the mentality you show here.

What you say is particularly hurtful to me (my dad is the Bill Morgan Ige was talking about) and to Kevin and Marco who continue to build the relationships in Boulder that prove not all off highway motorists are tearing up trails. We are stewards and these people emulate that, so show some grace and empathy to their fight.

We all mourn the loss of the original Jenny Creek, but remain thankful that our relationships and gusto in Boulder are a force to be reckoned with.

Tread as lightly with relationships as you do with trails so you may have them both for a long time.

 

[HoneyBadger]

I definitely feel where Mike is coming from. It sucks that the FS would put us in this situation of, "move it or lose it".
I don't think he meant to offend anyone. I share his sense of frustration towards the FS in general. It makes me mad that these trails are always up for consideration to be closed. I really wish there was a way that these trails could be locked in and free from this assault constantly thrown at them from the FS under the guise of a budget crisis or an environmental agenda. (Can you tell I just love the government?)
Anyways. I understand the feeling about Jenny Creek. If it's not the same trail, why keep calling it Jenny creek? It's completely altered now and will never be the same. And all because some environmental study said it was causing too much sediment in the creek? Oh please... What do you happens when it rains? Honestly we're lucky it was able to be rerouted instead of completely closed. Because I think that deep down the base cause of that "study" was to get the trail closed. I know, it sounds like a conspiracy theory. (I guess I should stop watching the X Files.)
Regardless, our club members are still at the front lines of this fight and we keep doing everything we can to keep these trails open. We now have a duty to continue the efforts of those who came before us. If we ever just throw up our hands and say, "forget it", all will be lost.

The bottom line is this. We're still all part of the same club and we're all on the same side fighting for the same cause. And ultimately, I think we make a pretty good team.

 

[Squishy!]

I appreciate your honesty in your frustration. I think it is reflective of how most of us feel. I think it's always our goal to keep everything open, but when we're left with no alternative no matter how hard we try, we will compromise (seriously though, it's the LAST option).

Travis, I think you are a great representative for our Land Use. Despite your distaste of government (and paranoia) you still work well with our County folks as partners.

Kevin and Marco, it almost goes without saying that your continued efforts up north are invaluable and shame me in my lack of involvement.

Thanks for what you guys do!

And thanks to our club where we can come together and debate these decisions. That alone is reflective of how much we care not only about the trails we have adopted, but greater impact to the Colorado outdoorsman.

 

[Uncle Ben]

I'll try to be civil in this post. I cannot deny that driving the old route through Jenny Creek was the highlight of what it once was. The reason it stayed that way for so long was the creek sections are all on private property. Many mountain properties down stream get there water directly out of Jenny Creek. If expert conspiracy theorists here think driving in the creek was no big deal please prove it and catch the water that runs off your truck the next time you wash it and drink up! If your not willing to enjoy that refreshing "spring' water then .....edited.... Wheeling responsibly is a whole lot more than slapping big tires on your broken down truck. Rising Sun is an old club and a long history of being a great club and it didn't get that reputation from raping the trails and letting "someone else" clean up after us.

 

[rover67]

Ok. Let me see if I can clear some of this up.

-Regardless of what some folks may have seen on a website somewhere, Kingston Peak is currently not "officially adopted" by anyone. That's why we're having this discussion to begin with.

Travis, from the BRD meeting thread that you posted in:

Kingston Peak FR353 ( ) - Adopted out of Clear Creek Ranger District by North American XJ Association. NORAC to adopt Boulder Ranger District side.

http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/forum2/showpost.php?p=283342&postcount=2

This is consistent with what I have heard in the meetings with the BRD that I have attended (which these notes are from). I have talked to Bill from NORAC during these meetings and they are indeed taking care of Kingston Peak on the BRD side. I can confirm again this week

I can try to contact NA XJ Association and verify they are on it on the clear creek side. Maybe either they or clear creek are confused?

 

[HoneyBadger]

I'll look into it.

 

[rover67]

You wanna try to contact NAXJ and I'll talk to Bill again? I'll probably see him this week.

 

[rover67]

Ok so yep, looks like NAXJ washed their hands clean of kingston. You're right travis:

http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?p=246342775#post246342775

sorry for the derailment, gives me an opportunity to get the notes straight with BRD. Just making sure we're on the same page.

 

[Uncle Ben]

Wow.....thank you for being persistent Travis! I stand corrected. Now the question is what do we do with this information?

 

[HoneyBadger]

Thanks for looking into that, Marco. I've had so much on my plate lately, I've let things slip through the cracks.
I'm working on adoption paperwork with Clear Creak Ranger district now.
Also please remember, all, that this is not a forever and permanent thing. After this year if we don't feel like this is going to be a good thing long term, we can pass this trail on to someone else.

 

[Uncle Ben]

Thanks for looking into that, Marco. I've had so much on my plate lately, I've let things slip through the cracks.
I'm working on adoption paperwork with Clear Creak Ranger district now.
Also please remember, all, that this is not a forever and permanent thing. After this year if we don't feel like this is going to be a good thing long term, we can pass this trail on to someone else.

Im in!