pike san isabel deis meetings

[Jameson]

Heard that the link was bad, here are duplicates.

Main doc's page
https://www.fs.usda.gov/project/?project=48214

Comment Page
https://cara.ecosystem-management.org/Public//CommentInput?Project=48214

Looks like the page is back up... it went down a little bit earlier.

 

[Jameson]

Alright... here's the draft. I'd suggest that everyone "beat it up" and provide any feedback prior to end of day Thursday. At that time we can submit it online to the comments. I also think it would help to Fedex overnight the letter to the Pike and San Isabel National Forest office in Pueblo. It won't be cheap, but I think everyone will agree this effort is worth $40 or so in shipping. I'm happy to facilitate the shipping. Also - what address do we use as a club? Left it blank for now.

 

[Inukshuk]

Legal Approves

 

[DaveInDenver]

I doubt every person reviewing comments will be familiar with the Rising Sun so I'd suggest making clear that those are volunteer work hours logged assisting the USFS doing maintenance, picking up trash, repairs, etc.

I believe the mailing address is officially:

Rising Sun 4 Wheel Drive Club of Colorado, Inc
PO Box 260175
Lakewood, CO 80226-0175

 

[Jameson]

I doubt every person reviewing comments will be familiar with the Rising Sun so I'd suggest making clear that those are volunteer work hours logged assisting the USFS doing maintenance, picking up trash, repairs, etc.

I believe the mailing address is officially:

Rising Sun 4 Wheel Drive Club of Colorado, Inc
PO Box 260175
Lakewood, CO 80226-0175

Hey Dave - my understanding is that that the time listed is all encompassing. We cannot claim them all as volunteer work hours. Thank you for sending the address.

 

[rover67]

The time is total time spent on trails. We are basically saying that anytime we are on trails we are doing stuff like picking up trash, looking for people being nasty and helping them be happy, patrolling for other shenanigans like rouge campsites, abandoned vehicles 4wheelers, side by sides that kind of stuff. We also have hours in the big report that include more formalized volunteer days like Argentine, Jenny Creek, etc. In Pike - San Isabel there weren't any of those kinds of events.

I'm not sure if we call that volunteering technically but it is logged as volunteering as far as our trail hours reporting thing is concerned.

here is exactly what was reported this year for example. this is the roll up that Adam built using our and everybody else's data.

 

[DaveInDenver]

I'd highlight the number of official volunteer hours helping the USFS too then. Total hours I think is interesting but is a soft number that I'm not sure has the same hard impact when an analyst in Washington is weighting a comment. Each of those ~1,100 hours has a cost/saving accounting value. The IRS has a schedule they follow using generally accept accounting practices for such things so I'd expect the USFS and Dept of Agriculture recognizes how much that helps. For 2019 a volunteer hour I think is worth $25.43 in value, so that's literally $25,000 in quantifiable assistance the club provided the USFS.

 

[Jameson]

I'd highlight the number of official volunteer hours helping the USFS too then. Total hours I think is interesting but is a soft number that I'm not sure has the same hard impact when an analyst in Washington is weighting a comment. Each of those ~1,100 hours has a cost/saving accounting value. The IRS has a schedule they follow using generally accept accounting practices for such things so I'd expect the USFS and Dept of Agriculture recognizes how much that helps. For 2019 a volunteer hour I think is worth $25.43 in value, so that's literally $25,000 in quantifiable assistance the club provided the USFS.

That's a good point Dave. I can make a reference to the hours we volunteered specifically... anyone have this???

 

[DaveInDenver]

That's a good point Dave. I can make a reference to the hours we volunteered specifically... anyone have this???

I re-read the roll up and misunderstood. I thought that said 1,121.50 hours and it was actually 11,121.50 hours of total time. So please disregard the actual accounting numbers in my post. Whether or not recorded volunteer hours, if they are even totaled separately, might be meaningful I don't know. That is just mentioned as a counterpoint.

 

[rover67]

That's a good point Dave. I can make a reference to the hours we volunteered specifically... anyone have this???

As far as last years reporting goes, the only time we coordinated with the Forest Service to do an organized volunteer day Was Jenny Creek, that was 123hrs total.

Argentine came in later so wasn't included in last seasons hours

 

[nuclearlemon]

did nobody ever pay attention when i talked about the adopt a trail hours ? i've also mentioned it at every quarterly meeting but no one from rising sun has attended in years and actually rising sun hasnt' been a member in years, afaik (now that i'm not a resident, i'm not on the board anymore so i dont see current membership)

volunteer hours consist of anytime you go run a trail from the time you leave your house until the time you return home minus any other stops and does not have to be on your contracted road or a scheduled event.

 

[Jameson]

The letter was printed on some nice pretty paper and overnighted to the United States Forestry Office. It will get there before noon tomorrow. I'll be uploading the letter to the public comments page before end of the week.

 

[rover67]

Thanks Jameson!

 

[Jameson]

The letter was printed on some nice pretty paper and overnighted to the United States Forestry Office. It will get there before noon tomorrow. I'll be uploading the letter to the public comments page before end of the week.

Our comment has been now been electronically submitted. We're official. Thanks Marco, Dave and Jackson for your input.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Thanks for staying on top of it Jameson.

 

[RayRay27]

Got an email today from trails off-road reminding everyone to get their comments into the forest service by November 4th.

https://trai.campaign-view.com/ua/v...201&n=124296e02ca35d&mrd=16d64e06b7da61f1&m=1

 

[Jameson]

Bumpety-bump! It's the 4th. Get those comments in!!!

 

[MountainGoat]

Bumpety-bump! It's the 4th. Get those comments in!!!

DONE!

 

[ScaldedDog]

I got mine in last night. The overhwhelming majority of comments seem to be from the OHV community.

I have to confess to not fully understanding the practical effect of "option C with modifications" on the trails we love. What, for example, does "temporary seasonal closure will become permanant" mean? Also, is the difference between a road and trail simply that the latter requires a sticker?

Mark

 

[rover67]

maybe Dave can explain rd vs trail, but I believe that Trails are treated differently in that they are allotted money and resources differently than roads are. In a more favorable way.

The temporary seasonal closure going to permanent is a situation where they have placed a temporary seasonal closure in effect for a particular road or trail. so closed during a particular part of the season... by by temporary order. that goes permanent