• Jack-it Night: April 2024 RS Meeting Hey Guest: Wed. April 3rd is the next Rising Sun meeting, and you won't want to miss it. We're doing our annual offroad recovery equipment demonstration and trail skills training aka "Jack It Night." Meeting starts at 6:30 p.m. (early) Click here for all the details.

pike san isabel deis meetings

nuclearlemon

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Public commenting is currently open for the Pike & San Isabel (PSI) Draft Environmental Impact Statement (DEIS). Those not familiar with the lawsuit and settlement agreement that set this process in motion, please take a minute and watch our video explaining how to comment and the history. You can watch here.

You can find the maps and DEIS here.

Additionally, public meetings are being held to take comments/feedback concerning this Travel Management Plan. The meeting schedule is from 6:00-7:30pm, dates and locations are as follows:

Salida, Tuesday, October 8th, 2019, Salida Steam Plant.

Pueblo, Wednesday, October, 9th, 2019, Pueblo Community College.

Denver, Thursday, October 10th, 2019, MindSpark Learning Center.

Colorado Springs, Friday, October 11th, 2019, S4 Inc Center for Excellence.

Comments can also be submitted here.

Please comment on this proposal and if possible, please make time to attend one of the public meetings to convey your feedback in person.
 
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Hulk

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@nuclearlemon No link for video or maps or DEIS or comments. Please update!
 

OHUZJ100

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It sounds like now is a very important time to express our comments.:unsure:

I have watched the videos linked (AS EVERYONE SHOULD!). Being new to off-roading, and land-use, how should I make a "substantial" comment that accurately represents my view? Especially in the sense that I am not a "member" of RS but have done at least one survey run, and one work day with the forrest service on RS adopted trails.

Some phrases that I think are applicable to me as CORE suggests would be:

"I have not yet visited these trails but I plan to in the future..."

"I value the trails in this area because..."

I want these trails kept open. Recreation should not be limited to non-motorized vehicle, or those without rubber tires, etc. I hope RS comments in droves to express what these trails mean to the club. Thanks for any advice.

"Don't assume someone else will do something"
 

DaveInDenver

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Membership in Rising Sun isn't important. You are a taxpaying citizen and these are your public lands so it's your right to make your voice heard.

The key with comments is not to cut and paste. The Forest Service and BLM are astute enough to recognize this and will count cut-n-paste comments as one single comment even if there are 10,000 of them. This works in our favor, at least in theory, because that is a common tactic for all large groups including anti-OHV.

So read the material Ige posted, digest as much as you can and write what you as a "stakeholder" (this is a key word) want to say. It does help to be specific with roads and constructive with comments. "I'm pissed and want the trails open!" isn't as useful as "The proposed reclassification of FS123 isn't justified for whatever reason."

I'm just reading through it, so don't feel bad if it seems overwhelming because it is. There's thousands of routes in the spreadsheet to review and compare to maps.
 

OHUZJ100

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Not that anyone asked. But IMO, 4x4 clubs are among the central stakeholders. Considering Wilderness Society v. USFS pertains almost strictly to Motorized vehicles, I thought it may relevant to mention the work that myself, and the club who organizes that work has done with the USFS. If anyone knows these trails it would be the 4x4 clubs.

Also, would it be worth mentioning that I have OHV permit? If I'm paying money to use a motor vehicle on "trails" why propose closure on said trails. Its disheartening to spend money to ensure these trails are kept open by USFS given the circumstance.
 

DaveInDenver

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Not sure if the permit is as important as mentioning something like volunteer hours. Ultimately it seems like the arbitration is about the USFS needing evidence that it's taking care of studying endangered species and doing environmental assessments. So hours spent swinging hammers and filling trash bags seems impactful to minimize the closures. Of course even having a settlement agreement doesn't mean anything to the anti-OHV groups, SUWA et al just ended up ignoring the one they signed regarding the San Rafael Swell with the BLM and all the co-defendents in that lawsuit, which people mistakenly thought meant it was over and done only to be blindsided.
 
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OHUZJ100

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The San Rafael Swell thread was where I gained interest for trail closures, and similar topics. It was never clear to me how the actions panned out, but from the thread it appeared that the 4x4 communities, and RS members were in fact "blind sided" by non favorable action.

Regardless, I hope things do not proceed how they did in that instance, for this case. I've written my submission to the USFS with some of your tips and hope others will do the same.:gaah:
 

jps8460

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Headed down to this tomorrow, I have an extra seat from Slee if anyone wants to tag along. Otherwise, I hope to see a couple of you down there.
 

rover67

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Thanks for doing this Jackson, I wish I could make it. I hope some others can make it.
 

jps8460

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I’ll be leaving from my house in Broomfield most likely. Took me 34min to go 3 miles this morning so currently working from home.
 

jps8460

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So, unfortunately the meeting was canceled. I went anyways, because the contractors that do a lot of the heavy data lifting for the draft environmental impact study were there answering questions.

There were about 20-25 people that showed up even though it was canceled. I've been looking over the draft and mvum's for about 4 days (call it 16hrs) leading up to today. There were a few retired folks their that were definitely for closing/altering the proposed routes in alternative C. They apparently have been pouring over this for a looong time.

Being that this document is over 300 pages, not including all of the other stuff that goes along with it, 16 hrs of reading and research is not enough to have an intelligible conversation with someone who has devoted months and months to it. I introduced myself to a few people by asking them how they like to enjoy our public lands. That quickly gives you an general idea of what their point of view is.

There is another meeting tomorrow night in CO Springs. I'm currently trying to talk Megan into going. I'm not sure I'll be able to make it down. It would be great if a few of you could go and show support for the 4x4 community.

Make sure that you read through the tables in section 2 to understand what it means when a road is converted to a trail. I'm always in a full size vehicle, so specific width restricted uses mean nothing to me.

The old man, who I had a conversation with, lives in an area where some of the motor vehicle use is being closed and he couldn't be happier. The spots he's been fishing and hiking for 50 years have been getting riddled with trash and disgraced with people driving wherever they want. He made the comment that he used to be able to drive a 2wd pickup to his favorite spot, now he doesn't own a vehicle that's capable of getting there because the road is so beat up.

How do I, someone who spends 1 day a year there, argue with someone who has spent their entire life there? By the end of our conversation, he had me pretty much convinced that the road should be closed.

If we as a club (or community) want to have an educated opinion, we need a team devoted to reviewing documents like this.
 

DaveInDenver

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I think the position shouldn't be one of being absolutely against closures but to make sure it's a quid pro quo. Something gained for something lost, e.g. compromises with all users. The road this gentleman mentions might very well be abused and need a temporary or permanent closure but we might then present an option to re-open something in compensation.
 

jps8460

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I think the position shouldn't be one of being absolutely against closures but to make sure it's a quid pro quo. Something gained for something lost, e.g. compromises with all users. The road this gentleman mentions might very well be abused and need a temporary or permanent closure but we might then present an option to re-open something in compensation.
100% agree. To me, none of the proposals are a compromise.
 

Inukshuk

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From CORE on Facebook:

**PSI Alert - Denver Meeting Rescheduled**
Good Morning Everyone,
The PSICC rescheduled the PSI Travel Management Denver public meeting for Thursday, October 24, 2019, from 6 pm to 7:30 pm.
The meeting will be held in the MT. Zirkel room on the main level at the USFS Regional Office in Lakewood. The office is located at the following address:
1617 Cole Blvd, Building 17
Lakewood, CO 80401
Thanks
John Dow
PSICC Forest Planner
P:719-350-5311
Email: john.dow@usda.gov
 

Inukshuk

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Bump for who else is going to brave the snowstorm and come with me and Jackson to the meeting
 

DanTheMan

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Is this the meeting that the re-scheduled because of the last snow storm?
 

Inukshuk

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