New battery recommendations

[Cruisertrash]

I feel like I ask this every few years … but it seems like the automotive battery landscape changes in that time, so here I am again.

1982 FJ60 with rebuilt alternator, NOS OEM voltage regulator, both from D&D Auto Electric in Wheat Ridge. I have a fairly accurate voltmeter in the cab. Great voltage at idle and while driving, but I’ve had some very sluggish starts recently. It really seems like a battery that’s almost dead. Starter was rebuilt by D&D as well. Sometimes after shutting the engine off and coming back to the truck the voltage reads low before I turn the key for a labored start.

This morning I ran into the dry cleaner and came back out to a battery that’s deader than a doornail. The voltmeter won’t even come on (threshold is minimum 5V). I’m assuming I need a new battery. This was an interstate from Costco and lasted 3 years.

What are people running? What are the good batteries on the market? Do I finally go with an expensive LifePo or keep with a regular wet battery - I may eventually go dual wet batteries at @nakman insistence. I know that battery branding is a mess. One manufacture might supply to different stores and brand the batteries differently, and that there are “good” and “bad” factories. That’s a mess I haven’t been able to keep track of.

I talked to a guy from Mud recently who’s lithium starting battery spontaneously combusted and burned the whole front of his truck, so that scares me. He hadn’t run the truck all day, and as he came home from work in his daily driver Tacoma he turned into his driveway and saw flames shooting from the hood. Fire department confirmed it started with his new lithium battery. He arrived just as the fire started and was lucky to catch it in time to save the truck.

So give me your best and worst battery stories. Give me your big opinions.

 

[gr8fulabe]

They are expensive, but I swear by the X2 batteries at batteries plus. I bought at least two of mine well before the Boulder floods & they are still going strong. One of those, in our troopy, only gets started a few times a year & still recovers just fine every time so dar

 

[Johnny Utah]

I think most lead/acid batteries are poorly made, usually out of country. For the price I just get the Interstate at Costco. I just exchanged one about three weeks ago for a brand new one. The one I returned was not holding a charge very well. It was just a couple months from hitting the three-year warranty that costco gives you. I told them the issue and they said bring it in and we'll get you a new one. No further questions. They didn't even ask to load test it. Took me about 20 minutes start to finish. Thanks Costco!

 

[DaveInDenver]

Are you sure you wouldn't prefer a nice, comparatively safe talk about religion or politics instead?

Some points you first should think through. A battery at ~32°F has about 60% of it's rated capacity (this is usually at ~75°F) and at 0°F it's down to about 20%.

So cold morning starts alone are not surprising for any battery and especially one that is not new. It would worry me if it doesn't start well later in the day, though.

I no longer use AGM as a starting battery personally. Flooded is more tolerant of poor charging. The advantage to AGM is mechanical robustness. They last longer in a situation with a lot of bouncing and vibration.

So it's a trade-off in how you want to punish your battery. Turns out in my case the Toyota charging system and my general laziness in being good about a shore charge is slightly worse than the mechanical damage to plates by about 6 months to a year in life expectancy. So by buying a 24 or 36 month flooded periodically replaced is a better budget than trying to eek out life on a more expensive AGM.

There's no harm in taking it to a battery place for a test. If you can spare the time take the battery out and charge it in a warm place overnight first and take it to a Battery Plus or whatever in the morning. If it tests marginal you know it's bad. If it tests OK then you have to add back variables like a charging problems, parasitic draw, cold temps, starter issues.

Scott's got a point about brands. I like mid grade Duracell from Battery Plus. Made domestically by East Penn, same as Deka brand. I just put an Interstate in the Subaru and in that size it looks to be rebranded. But in our sizes, 24/27/31 they probably make their own. They are US-made, too.

 

[Cruisertrash]

Funny thing is, sometimes when I go to start or re-start the truck everything seems fine. Strong healthy starter action. Good 12.7-12.9 reading on the voltmeter when I turn the key to the ON position. I’ve verified the cables at the battery and starter aren’t loose. Both battery positive and ground, and starter positive and ground are less than two years old and much larger gauge than stock.

The guy I talked to who’s battery caught fire says his was a lithium marine Super Start brand for what it’s worth.

 

[Hulk]

I've been buying the Napa Legend AGM batteries. It's been a bit since I looked at this, but I recall them being made by East Penn, same as Deka and Duracell. Since Napa Auto Parts stores are in so many places, I like that I can potentially swap it if it fails even when I am not in Colorado.

 

[Cruisertrash]

@DaveInDenver I daily drive this thing AND I’m lazy - a bad combo. I have a household charger/maintainer at my shop for my backup vehicle, the absolutely wonderful 2001 Toyota Echo, but I probably wouldn’t come home from work, remove the battery to bring inside, and actually charge it.

I’ve heard AGMs can be finicky about a charge, and if they get low it can kill their lifespan. I think a regular wet battery is just dumb enough for me, even if it gets to bouncing around on trails.

I will test but I doubt the parasitic draw theory. I pull into a gas station with 14.1V on my voltmeter, pump gas for 5 minutes and when I go to restart I have 10V. A parasitic draw that big is either going to be blowing fuses or show a much lower voltage while driving, since the alternator would have trouble keeping up. For reference, every 60 with STOCK wiring and a real voltmeter that I’ve ever seen tends to run at 13.2-13.6V. I’m already ahead of the curve on that with the electrical upgrades I’ve done. In other words running below 14.7V in a 60 doesn’t necessarily indicate an issue. Running above 14 at all is quite rare.

 

[Cruisertrash]

Example: I stopped at the dry cleaners half an hour ago, came out to a totally dead battery. I stopped at the gas station just now and came back out to 12.9V and a robust healthy start.

 

[SteveH]

Example: I stopped at the dry cleaners half an hour ago, came out to a totally dead battery. I stopped at the gas station just now and came back out to 12.9V and a robust healthy start.

<remote possibility> This can be a sign that the post inside the battery has detached from the plates and only intermittently delivers power. Wiggle the battery posts (grab the attached terminal with a gloved hand) and see if it moves at all. It should be rock solid.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Having an acute problem like that sounds like physical damage, probably a piece of fractured plate that moves around and settles overnight. So sometimes it shorts a cell, sometimes not. It's a dice roll. I'm going through that right now with my battery and it actually tested fine so it wasn't warrantied on the spot.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Example: I stopped at the dry cleaners half an hour ago, came out to a totally dead battery. I stopped at the gas station just now and came back out to 12.9V and a robust healthy start.

<remote possibility> This can be a sign that the post inside the battery has detached from the plates and only intermittently delivers power. Wiggle the battery posts (grab the attached terminal with a gloved hand) and see if it moves at all. It should be rock solid.

I had an Odyssey that did this. You could push the case top and watch the post connect and disconnect.

 

[Cruisertrash]

Example: I stopped at the dry cleaners half an hour ago, came out to a totally dead battery. I stopped at the gas station just now and came back out to 12.9V and a robust healthy start.

<remote possibility> This can be a sign that the post inside the battery has detached from the plates and only intermittently delivers power. Wiggle the battery posts (grab the attached terminal with a gloved hand) and see if it moves at all. It should be rock solid.

I'll do this. I take my battery terminals off the lugs fairly often to do various work on the truck. There's a chance that all that fussing caused the terminals to loosen. I'd still need a new battery, but at least I'll be aware of being a little more ginger with battery posts in the future.

 

[rover67]

I dunno about which is best but I have certainly moved away from AGM batteries after some pricey ones died early or same as lead acid deaths. I did have an OG Optima that lasted 11+ years in my old 60 but it seems like an anomoly. Now I alternate between the batteries plus duracels and the costco innerstates. Usually whichever is cheapest. I think when i get a new 80 to replace my totalled one I'll do a regular lead acid starting battery and maybe a LiFePo in the back with a DC to DC charger. Eliminate the second heavy battery up front and basically have a fridge/ham battery out back. I still carry Jumper cables and a jump pack no matter what so I really have no need for a second lead acid up front I can start off of.

 

[Cruisertrash]

I dunno about which is best but I have certainly moved away from AGM batteries after some pricey ones died early or same as lead acid deaths. I did have an OG Optima that lasted 11+ years in my old 60 but it seems like an anomoly. Now I alternate between the batteries plus duracels and the costco innerstates. Usually whichever is cheapest. I think when i get a new 80 to replace my totalled one I'll do a regular lead acid starting battery and maybe a LiFePo in the back with a DC to DC charger. Eliminate the second heavy battery up front and basically have a fridge/ham battery out back. I still carry Jumper cables and a jump pack no matter what so I really have no need for a second lead acid up front I can start off of.

My lithium jump pack saved me this morning. One of the best $100 I've ever spent.

In looking into a dual battery setup, which Tim keeps pushing on me, I've read that the lithium batteries wont charge very well below freezing, so I might just do to lead acid batteries under the hood if I go that route. Maybe @CardinalFJ60 can weigh in on his setup.

 

[Notyourmomslx450]

big fan of Odyssey Batteries.
When i install the dual battery set up i'll be putting in a deep cycle Odyssey. when the starting battery dies i'll get one for it.

 

[DaveInDenver]

I've read that the lithium batteries wont charge very well below freezing, so I might just do to lead acid batteries under the hood if I go that route. Maybe @CardinalFJ60 can weigh in on his setup.

It's not just won't but can't be charged below freezing. That's chemistry. So the battery has to either be heated externally or internally, which is the job of the BMS that is typically inside the case.

big fan of Odyssey Batteries.
When i install the dual battery set up i'll be putting in a deep cycle Odyssey. when the starting battery dies i'll get one for it.

Some people have good luck. I didn't. Went through 3 of them in 5 years in my dual system. They were good about warranty on the first two but said no to a third. Talking about it with Daniel recently it did occur to me that it was the house side so it could have been specific to the type and capacity. One of them was the mechanical break, two others were accelerated aging.

I put a group 25 backed up to a group 35 in the stock spot so I was running pretty deep discharges on the fridge side. This size Odyssey has a 65 A-hr capacity and I'd take them to 75% or 80% discharge routinely. But they are rated for 400 cycles and mine would only get 1/3rd of that before losing capacity quick.

Shrug.

I had to do an emergency swap mid-trip when the terminal broke. So I bought the cheapest G35 Wal-Mart had, standard car, 12 month warranty, made in Spain. That was in 2019 and I still have that battery. It got replaced in Sept 2022 when I pulled the dual (the weight cracked my radiator core support) with a group 27 X2 (we'll see, it's my first X2) that now rides in the bed. So that $100 POS went about a year longer than any of the Odysseys before it and now is my portable random use around the garage.

 

[Crash]

Short life here, too, with two group 27 Odysseys. Three years, just out of warranty was not enough for $400 batts.

 

[Cruisertrash]

@DaveInDenver Last time I needed a battery a lot of folks were talking about the X2s. Those are LiPo, no? That guy on Mud who's 60 had the fire ... that really scares me about lithium.

@Crash I had an Optima red top in my Tacoma for maybe 8-10 years, it never failed me. Amazing battery. When it was finally time to get a new battery there was a tidal wave of bad reviews on the new red tops because they had changed the manufacturing location on them. I opted for a cheap wet battery.

@nakman will come around eventually, but I think he was saying he runs two wet batteries for his dual battery setups. Cheap, easy to find anywhere, abuse them and get another one. Still waiting for @CardinalFJ60 to come by and extoll his knowledge on the subject too.

I really do want to keep an eye on a future dual battery system, so I like discussing all of that with this starter battery replacement in mind.

 

[DaveInDenver]

No, X2 are AGM similar to an Odyssey. Made by Northstar. But I don't know if there are other X2 that may be lithium. Most of them are lead-acid AGM.

I'm someone who also had awesome luck with Optima. But that was made in Aurora, CO, Optima. Later Johnson Control Optima was average. But the one in Dean's 1985 here was left slowly discharging for a year, I put it on a quick charge and it came right back to life. I think they're OK. Not worth premium price for the name but they seem to have leveled out quality wise just the same.

Dual batteries are a topic drift. The key I find is treating the two distinctly. Your starter battery doesn't need as much care as the house so put some sort of proper charger on the house side, whether that's solar, a DC-DC, etc.

Yeah, lithium. I've said it elsewhere. The industry I think is too cavalier with them. Lead acid is heavy but it self regulates. They can blow up but you have to try. Like dropping a spanner across the terminals. Some lithium is alright. LiFePO4 is pretty stable but Li-ion needs to be handled right. I'm as guilty as anyone. I have a jump box and they use (usually) crap foil-pack Li-ion. I will not leave mine in the truck in the summer, though.

 

[Telly]

Are you sure you wouldn't prefer a nice, comparatively safe talk about religion or politics instead?

That made me laugh out loud!

I'm a Costco Interstate fan. They last 4ish years for me and are cheap. That's good enough for me.