Merits of Ham radio wheeling

[Hulk]

Three Amateur operators that have been certified as a Volunteer Examiners(and one as a Volunteer Examiner Coordinator) must administer the exam. This is usually most available through a club. The processing fee the Amateur Radio Clubs charge to administer the exam(FCC paperwork fee) is $14. The license from the FCC is actually free.

I have my General license, as do you and Sharkbait. Might we administer our own exam?

 

[Uncle Ben]

On the first runs I went on with Windy City back in 1996, I had no CB. Soon I found out I was missing out on half the fun. The very first mod I made to my 1981 FJ40 was to buy a CB, and it's still in use today.

On the Ghost Town Run in the summer of 2006, we had an enormous group. We soon found that the back couldn't communicate very well with the front with our CBs. Later, we had one group go to town for lunch, while another group of us chose to hit another trail and have a picnic. Even though we were only a few miles apart, we couldn't communicate. The need for something better than a CB became clear.

I wasn't completely convinced until I did the pre-run of Hotel Rock and Arch Canyon with the Wasatch guys in early March of this year (2007). The guys with CBs couldn't talk with one another from front to back, while the guys with Ham had no problems. As we left on Sunday morning, Ben Ashcraft and Dan Reinmuth did a test to see how far the could transmit without a repeater. Result was about 30 miles. That was when I made the decision to get my license and buy a radio.
It's not an elitist thing. It's just a better tool.

I wasn't happy to spend more money on another radio when I already had a CB in each of my Land Cruisers. But as soon as I used it on the trail, I was glad I'd spent the money. Like a Toyota, it just works. No need to constantly tweak it.

If you already have a CB and you don't see the need for another radio, no worries. If you have neither and are wondering which one to buy, I'd make the case to go straight to ham.

I don't understand this hostile and negative campaign against the use of ham radio. I think it started as a joke. Is it still a joke?

It is (at least in my head) still a joke! I do disagree with the first any only radio choice though! Look at it this way......Being a Toyota club we generally run with all or nearly all Toyota 4x4's. Nearly all of those Toyotas are in TLCA. TLCA has roughly 4000 members and of those members I would say less than 100 have ham radios. Are you saying screw talking to the other 3900 Toyheads because they don't have the same equipment you have? With that kind of attitude those other 3900 probably don't want to talk to you anyway! Face the fact.....the majority of wheelers out there will continue to use CB if they have any radio at all and if your decide to use something different, exclusively, you are the one missing out! Ham has it's place and it IS a good thing but it IS also elitist!



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"Elitism
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Elitism is the belief or attitude that those individuals who are considered members of the elite — a select group of people with outstanding personal abilities, intellect, wealth, specialized training or experience, or other distinctive attributes — are those whose views on a matter are to be taken the most seriously or carry the most weight; whose views and/or actions are most likely to be constructive to society as a whole; or whose extraordinary skills, abilities or wisdom render them especially fit to govern [1]. Alternatively, the term elitism may be used to describe a situation in which power is concentrated in the hands of the elite.

Opposed to elitism are "anti-elitism," "populism," and the political theory of pluralism. Elite theory is the sociological or political science analysis of elite influence in society - elite theorists regard pluralism as a utopian ideal.

Elitism may also refer to situations in which an elite individual assumes special privileges and responsibilities in the hope that this arrangement will benefit humanity.

At times, elitism is closely related to social class and what sociologists call social stratification. Members of the upper classes are sometimes, though inaccurately, known as the "social elite."

The term elitism is also sometimes misused to denote situations in which a group of people claiming to possess high abilities or simply an in-group or cadre grant themselves extra privileges at the expense of others. This debased form of elitism may be described as discrimination.

 

[subzali]

I agree with UB. I'm going to have a CB and a Ham in my truck, because most people out there still, for 90% of trail usage still use CB. And I'll throw this in since I just got out of kolige - it's cheaper and easier to buy/install/use a CB than a ham if you're not technically oriented and all you want to do is communicate on the trail - at least that's what my experience was and one reason why I haven't done Ham yet - koolidge priorities were changed around a bit. There's a lot of younger new blood coming into the 4x4 scene.

That being said, sign me up for the class I want both. Not everyone does. That's why I drive a 40 and you drive an 80

 

[nakman]

Merits of Ham radios wheeling

Not a huge cost difference. A cheap 2m radio (~$80-$100) will net you most of the benefits. Oh it's more expensive, and yes you can spend more and get more (same goes for CB).

Substantially better clarity, even at close proximity, analagous to CD compared to cassette tape. No wait, even better. In fact no real clarity difference at 1 or 2 miles away either, it's as if they're still right behind you. This is probably the biggest "wheeling" benefit - trucks can be at opposite ends of a run and still communicate fine. example: Last year at CM our group on Kane creek got spread out, and I was able to talk to Dan the gunner just fine on 2m. No one with a CB from the "front group" was able to hear anyone in the "back group." We were up at that camp site where I like to eat lunch, just below the big obstacle on the shelf road.. and they were back just getting out of the weeds.. yeah that guy with the fancy ARB was slowing it all up

An almost infinite number of channels to select from, if "4" is busy for some reason.

Ability to tie into Colorado repeater system. Helpful if someone is late, and trying to reach the group. So you can be on Yankee Hill and still talk to someone in at their house in Highlands Ranch, or tell someone on I-70 where to turn.

one example: Last summer while we ran Jenny Creek, I was talking to Bruce who was running Spring Creek.

another example: Last summer, I was loading the truck in my driveway on Friday night preparing for the Ghost Town run camping trip, talking to the guys near A-Basin who were already there camping asking "what should I bring?"

Ability to contact someone in an emergency, even make emergency phone calls, when out of cell phone coverage areas.

 

[Uncle Ben]

Not a huge cost difference. A cheap 2m radio (~$80-$100) will net you most of the benefits. Oh it's more expensive, and yes you can spend more and get more (same goes for CB).

Substantially better clarity, even at close proximity, analagous to CD compared to cassette tape. No wait, even better. In fact no real clarity difference at 1 or 2 miles away either, it's as if they're still right behind you. This is probably the biggest "wheeling" benefit - trucks can be at opposite ends of a run and still communicate fine. example: Last year at CM our group on Kane creek got spread out, and I was able to talk to Dan the gunner just fine on 2m. No one with a CB from the "front group" was able to hear anyone in the "back group." We were up at that camp site where I like to eat lunch, just below the big obstacle on the shelf road.. and they were back just getting out of the weeds.. yeah that guy with the fancy ARB was slowing it all up

An almost infinite number of channels to select from, if "4" is busy for some reason.

Ability to tie into Colorado repeater system. Helpful if someone is late, and trying to reach the group. So you can be on Yankee Hill and still talk to someone in at their house in Highlands Ranch, or tell someone on I-70 where to turn.

one example: Last summer while we ran Jenny Creek, I was talking to Bruce who was running Spring Creek.

another example: Last summer, I was loading the truck in my driveway on Friday night preparing for the Ghost Town run camping trip, talking to the guys near A-Basin who were already there camping asking "what should I bring?"

Ability to contact someone in an emergency, even make emergency phone calls, when out of cell phone coverage areas.

And that is very cool! Truly! The range and safety values along justify having this ability in the back country! I will never argue this point!

 

[wesintl]

Maybe I should have said advantages and disadvantages. Either way this needs it's own thread.

 

[Seldom Seen]

..... Look at it this way......Being a Toyota club we generally run with all or nearly all Toyota 4x4's. Nearly all of those Toyotas are in TLCA. TLCA has roughly 4000 members and of those members I would say less than 100 have SUPERCHARGERS. Are you saying screw running with the other 3900 Toyheads because they don't have the same equipment you have? With that kind of attitude those other 3900 probably don't want to run with you anyway! Face the fact.....the majority of wheelers out there will continue to use NA engines .... if your decide to use something different, exclusively, you are the one missing out! SUPERCHARGING has it's place and it IS a good thing but it IS also elitist!

Fixed it for ya

 

[Romer]

Last Summer, Hatfield called me on the Ham from Jenny Creek because they had not met up with the 9news gal. I was in Golden so I then called her Cell and she followed me up.

On the way to Moab last year, I was talking with Ben in Golden and Nathanial in Vail while I was passing through Grand Junction and also talking to Convert who was about 10 miles ahead of me. It was Cool.

CQ......this is Uncle November Charlie Bravo Echo November I'm in the squeeze at Chinamons and just broke an axle.

Uncle Ben, this is X in Denver, we will run over to Slee and get you one and run it up to Chinamons.

X this is Uncle Ben, can you bring a pepporoni pizza and some Garlic bread while your coming

 

[Convert]

Last Summer, Hatfield called me on the Ham from Jenny Creek because they had not met up with the 9news gal. I was in Golden so I then called her Cell and she followed me up.

On the way to Moab last year, I was talking with Ben in Golden and Nathanial in Vail while I was passing through Grand Junction and also talking to Convert who was about 10 miles ahead of me. It was Cool.

CQ......this is Uncle November Charlie Bravo Echo November I'm in the squeeze at Chinamons and just broke an axle.

Uncle Ben, this is X in Denver, we will run over to Slee and get you one and run it up to Chinamons.

X this is Uncle Ben, can you bring a pepporoni pizza and some Garlic bread while your coming

X2 Ken
CM07 on a pre run of Cliff Hanger I called for parts via ham to the slickrock base station and got parts rounded up for Treeroot so he could repair his front end for the next day.Ham radio has a lot of advantages and some cost but I am not disappointed that I spent the time, money or effort to get licensed and install a ham radio. I have both CB and Ham radio's in the 80 and will probably do the same if I was to build another rig. That's my 2cents worth

 

[Uncle Ben]

Fixed it for ya

Nope....I have no problem wheeling with gasping trucks! Run what ya brung just make sure it will make it back home! I mean jeeze.......I will even wheel with guys in 4 Runners and mini trucks....my standards are pretty weak!

 

[Hulk]

TLCA has roughly 4000 members and of those members I would say less than 100 have ham radios. Are you saying screw talking to the other 3900 Toyheads because they don't have the same equipment you have? With that kind of attitude those other 3900 probably don't want to talk to you anyway!

Gimme a break. The majority of the 4000 members of TLCA don't take their rigs off the pavement. I bet there are about 800 guys (and a few gals) that actually wheel.

When I was on that pre-run to Hotel Rock, half the trucks had Ham and nearly everyone had CB too.

Let me put it this way: just because you buy a Hi-Lift jack, you don't leave your bottle jack at home, do you? Both are useful, but one of them is far more useful than the other.

 

[Uncle Ben]

Gimme a break. The majority of the 4000 members of TLCA don't take their rigs off the pavement. I bet there are about 800 guys (and a few gals) that actually wheel.

When I was on that pre-run to Hotel Rock, half the trucks had Ham and nearly everyone had CB too.

Let me put it this way: just because you buy a Hi-Lift jack, you don't leave your bottle jack at home, do you? Both are useful, but one of them is far more useful than the other.

Exactly! Thats my counter point to this statement from you..."If you already have a CB and you don't see the need for another radio, no worries. If you have neither and are wondering which one to buy, I'd make the case to go straight to ham."

 

[Hulk]

Exactly! Thats my counter point to this statement from you..."If you already have a CB and you don't see the need for another radio, no worries. If you have neither and are wondering which one to buy, I'd make the case to go straight to ham."

True. But if I had neither bottle jack nor hi-lift, and they were about the same price, and one was much better than the other...

The number of wheelers using Ham Radio is growing rapidly. It soon will no longer be a niche technology. If funds are limited, I recommend buying into the future rather than the past.

You'll understand once you get license and radio. People probably argued against lockers before they experienced one, too, back in the dark ages of 1990.

 

[Uncle Ben]

You'll understand once you get license and radio. People probably argued against lockers before they experienced one, too, back in the dark ages of 1990.

I highly doubt it! Most folks have discovered 35" (and up) tires are superior off highway but I seriously doubt the occasional wheeler will spend the money it takes to run that tall of tires when their 31's and 33's work well for them!

 

[Groucho]

Throw out the CB? Seriously?

Doesn't make much sense, but stupider suggestions have been made.

On last years GTR, I used both. It was my run, and I didn't want to leave anyone out. Was I talking alot? Yeah, but that is just how I like the GTR, full of nice little details about where we are going, and where we have been. It fits in my opinion.

The joke about throwing the CB out in my mind came when Nakman had trouble with his CB during the Argentine part of the GTR. No one knew he was talking. He made the tongue in cheek comment to "throw the CB out the window".

The point I will make is that in choosing a setup, having the base knowledge that HAM requires gives most of those folks the basic knowledge to troubleshoot problems with their equipment when they happen. Due to the FCC forming the Citizens Band channels so that everyone could transmit pretty much means that the focus on understanding how it works was left to the user. Many times this was ignored in light of just slapping it together and talking. Granted, CB previously required a license, it was less of a basis for knowledge and more for knowing who was going to be do it.

What gets me is the number of people who will still just throw their station together. No consideration for the simple things that can make all the difference. A $15 homebrew antenna and a $40 Radio Shack CB can outperform a Firestik and a $250 Cobra any day of the week. Just depends on the installation. Funny thing? All the folks who insist that HAM is not for them don't realize CB is limited to 5 watts, legally. Since CB is in the 11 meter band (27-28 MhZ), the fiberglass Firestik antennas are poor performers for the frequencies. Remember those guys with the 120" whips with the tennis balls on them? More appropriate length and thusly better performance. Bruce Miller told us a story of using a converted CB radio for 10 Meters on 5 watts. He was talking to people half way round the world, with the right antenna.

For the Amateur Radio operator, transmitter power must be the minimum necessary to carry out the desired communications. Unless otherwise noted, the maximum power output is 1500 watts PEP. That's alot 'o power! The greatest thing about being a HAM in comparison to CB? The ability to tinker.

As for being elite, I just hope no one thinks their kids are elitists for being a high school grad or passing their driving test. I earned my way into HAM radio just like anyone who has the desire can do. I studied, watched other HAMs and just had a basic interest in it.

I'm not here to sell it. I'm just here to enjoy helping people who want to do it be successful at it.

 

[Uncle Ben]

Doesn't make much sense, but stupider suggestions have been made.

On last years GTR, I used both. It was my run, and I didn't want to leave anyone out. Was I talking alot? Yeah, but that is just how I like the GTR, full of nice little details about where we are going, and where we have been. It fits in my opinion.

The joke about throwing the CB out in my mind came when Nakman had trouble with his CB during the Argentine part of the GTR. No one knew he was talking. He made the tongue in cheek comment to "throw the CB out the window".

The point I will make is that in choosing a setup, having the base knowledge that HAM requires gives most of those folks the basic knowledge to troubleshoot problems with their equipment when they happen. Due to the FCC forming the Citizens Band channels so that everyone could transmit pretty much means that the focus on understanding how it works was left to the user. Many times this was ignored in light of just slapping it together and talking. Granted, CB previously required a license, it was less of a basis for knowledge and more for knowing who was going to be do it.

What gets me is the number of people who will still just throw their station together. No consideration for the simple things that can make all the difference. A $15 homebrew antenna and a $40 Radio Shack CB can outperform a Firestik and a $250 Cobra any day of the week. Just depends on the installation. Funny thing? All the folks who insist that HAM is not for them don't realize CB is limited to 5 watts, legally. Since CB is in the 11 meter band (27-28 MhZ), the fiberglass Firestik antennas are poor performers for the frequencies. Remember those guys with the 120" whips with the tennis balls on them? More appropriate length and thusly better performance. Bruce Miller told us a story of using a converted CB radio for 10 Meters on 5 watts. He was talking to people half way round the world, with the right antenna.

For the Amateur Radio operator, transmitter power must be the minimum necessary to carry out the desired communications. Unless otherwise noted, the maximum power output is 1500 watts PEP. That's alot 'o power! The greatest thing about being a HAM in comparison to CB? The ability to tinker.

As for being elite, I just hope no one thinks their kids are elitists for being a high school grad or passing their driving test. I earned my way into HAM radio just like anyone who has the desire can do. I studied, watched other HAMs and just had a basic interest in it.

I'm not here to sell it. I'm just here to enjoy helping people who want to do it be successful at it.

Well said Nathanial! In all things, tools are only as good as the quality by which they are made and the knowledge of how to use them!

 

[Red_Chili]

Were there posts edited or removed or something? Talk about a class? This thread is hard to follow in the beginning.

I will never throw out my CB because (for now) most of the folks I talk to have a CB. If there was one radio that handled ham and CB, that would be uber cool. As it is, I have so much junk going on in my truck I'm about to run out of room! Handheld, maybe? That could be useful. Such a thing?

And before UB says what he is thinking, it is a small price to pay for being able to slink between the trees...

[jeez, just what I need, another expensive hobby...]

 

[Uncle Ben]

Were there posts edited or removed or something? Talk about a class? This thread is hard to follow in the beginning.

I will never throw out my CB because (for now) most of the folks I talk to have a CB. If there was one radio that handled ham and CB, that would be uber cool. As it is, I have so much junk going on in my truck I'm about to run out of room! Handheld, maybe? That could be useful. Such a thing?

And before UB says what he is thinking, it is a small price to pay for being able to slink between the trees...

[jeez, just what I need, another expensive hobby...]

Wes, our awesome webmaster, quickly and expertly split the banter from the class thread to keep the class thread on track. Thanks WES!

....and yes Bill, we will always consider you a Slinky!

 

[wesintl]

Wes, our awesome webmaster, quickly and expertly split the banter from the class thread to keep the class thread on track. Thanks WES!

Thanks.

I'll try and split the thread a little more gracefully next time.

 

[Uncle Ben]

You are not the first person to wonder about a CB/ham. Never happen, CB and ham are covered under different parts of the FCC rules. So a manufacturer would have to test it to both requirements and it would be such a limited demand that I can't see it being economically viable. I doubt most hams would even consider it and anyone comparing a CB to a CB/ham isn't gonna want to pay $200 for it when a CB costs $40.

Oh yeah, hams have some of the nicest handheld radios. I have a VX-7R, what a little wonder. It's 5 watts (roughly the same as the clunky CBs we have), 4 band transmit, receives just about anything, the size of a thick cell phone, built to Mil-Spec 810E, submersible and even has an optional barometer for altitude. Come to the ham class, see what radios that kept evolving look like!

I looked up your setup and thats pretty cool! How about a thread in members only section for showing off what everyone has as far as radios and installs go so all can see what the "extreme dark side" of wheeling communications has to offer....