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Jeep Jamboree: CB to be replaced by FRS/GMRS two-way radios in 2021

Hulk

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Romer

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Makes me wonder if I should rip the CB out of my truck and put a mobile unit in for FRS/GMRS
 

AimCOTaco

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I'm not ripping out my CB just yet but I am adding a mobile GMRS unit (used the RS discount code at Midland after Cruise Moab)!
 

Hulk

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Makes me wonder if I should rip the CB out of my truck and put a mobile unit in for FRS/GMRS
This is what I have done. Need a little more work to make the install as clean as I would like.
 

r.swany

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I'm not ripping out my CB just yet but I am adding a mobile GMRS unit (used the RS discount code at Midland after Cruise Moab)!
Which one are you thinking about getting? The 40w or the 15w with the screen in the mic?
This is what I have done. Need a little more work to make the install as clean as I would like.
Did you ditch the CB altogether?!
 

AimCOTaco

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I picked up the 15W with the screen on the mic... I expect 15W with an external antenna will be more than enough power. Range is all about the antenna for the most part, I've talked 100 miles with 5W on ham with just an external mag mount.

A nice feature on the mobiles is they give you back squelch control, the handhelds don't all give you that control and squelching up may be an effective solution when picking up distant groups.
 

r.swany

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I picked up the 15W with the screen on the mic... I expect 15W with an external antenna will be more than enough power. Range is all about the antenna for the most part, I've talked 100 miles with 5W on ham with just an external mag mount.

A nice feature on the mobiles is they give you back squelch control, the handhelds don't all give you that control and squelching up may be an effective solution when picking up distant groups.
Awesome! That’s the one I’m leaning toward. The 400 is a pretty big unit and I figured with HAM in the truck it’d be overkill. Did you get the little 3dB nub a antenna or the 6dB whip?
 

Hulk

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I no longer have a CB radio installed in the vehicle. I have a handheld Midland CB radio that I bought for Cruise Moab, but now I think I may just try to sell it on Craigslist.

I bought the Midland Ghost Antenna for my MXT275 (15 watts with the controls on the mic).
 

DaveInDenver

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I no longer have a CB radio installed in the vehicle. I have a handheld Midland CB radio that I bought for Cruise Moab, but now I think I may just try to sell it on Craigslist.
Is the club going completely away from CB? It seems silly to carry a handheld CB instead of blister pack FRS at that point. I don't strongly mind throwing CB under the bus but unless it's most everyone I prefer the convenience of an installed mobile CB.
 

Inukshuk

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Awesome! That’s the one I’m leaning toward. The 400 is a pretty big unit and I figured with HAM in the truck it’d be overkill. Did you get the little 3dB nub a antenna or the 6dB whip?
Read some of my posts.
I recommend the 3DB "ghost" antenna and the MXT275, and I have both antennas and the MXT400 also

Happy to loan any out
 

DouglasVB

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I'll never give up the CB radio because it's too nostalgic. Of course I haven't used it in years 😂 The last time I remember actually talking with someone on it was maybe five years ago to tell a few Jeep guys in front of me that I could get by and they were fine where they were (heard them talking on Channel 4 about moving out of the way for me).

But yeah... getting about that time to get a mobile GMRS radio. I'm waiting to see what happens with the recent rules revisions and if Midland or another company comes out with one that will transmit on all the FRS channels.

 

DaveInDenver

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But yeah... getting about that time to get a mobile GMRS radio. I'm waiting to see what happens with the recent rules revisions and if Midland or another company comes out with one that will transmit on all the FRS channels.
There's no reason to wait, the rules already changed in 2017. The MXT275 and MXT400 already include all the channels they're allowed to legally.
 

Inukshuk

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The MXT275 and MXT400 already include all the channels they're allowed to legally.
The MXT275 omits the FRS only channels (8-14) rather than simply power-limit those channels. I think its a mistake on Midlan;d part but they do it so users do not have "poor performance". 1-7 are "low" and 15+ are "hi"
 

Hulk

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Is the club going completely away from CB? It seems silly to carry a handheld CB instead of blister pack FRS at that point. I don't strongly mind throwing CB under the bus but unless it's most everyone I prefer the convenience of an installed mobile CB.
The club mostly uses ham. FRS/GMRS will probably be the standard for non-ham users going forward, but we've been headed this direction for a while. There is no official decree on this and I don't think there needs to be one. People can keep using CB on their runs if they prefer. They may find few other users who are willing to invest in an installed CB radio with an external antenna.

For Cruise Moab, we're probably moving to a policy of "FRS (or GMRS) required / Ham highly recommended." We are 99% certain that's where we are headed, but we haven't sent out our participant survey for the 2021 event yet. The benefits of FRS — easy to use, inexpensive, ubiquitous, and getting more popular — outweigh any remaining loyalty to CB radio. It's the right choice for our event.
 

RobW0

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The MXT275 omits the FRS only channels (8-14) rather than simply power-limit those channels. I think its a mistake on Midlan;d part but they do it so users do not have "poor performance". 1-7 are "low" and 15+ are "hi"
Not sure why it can't be done, but the reason the higher power units don't do channels 8-14, is that they can't make them transmit at that low a power. The Wouxun KG-1000 is the unit I like, because it has the removable face plate and will do 50 watts. It say it will monitor 8-14 only because it can not transmit at that low of power.
 

DaveInDenver

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Not sure why it can't be done, but the reason the higher power units don't do channels 8-14, is that they can't make them transmit at that low a power. The Wouxun KG-1000 is the unit I like, because it has the removable face plate and will do 50 watts. It say it will monitor 8-14 only because it can not transmit at that low of power.
The reason channels 8 to 14 are not included in mobile radios on GMRS is that FCC rules limit them to handhelds only. I suspect Midland thinks it would be more confusing to include them as receive-only or something like that.

§95.1763 GMRS channels.
The GMRS is allotted 30 channels—16 main channels and 14 interstitial channels. GMRS stations may transmit on any of the channels as indicated below.​
(a) 462 MHz main channels. Only mobile, hand-held portable, repeater, base and fixed stations may transmit on these 8 channels. The channel center frequencies are: 462.5500, 462.5750, 462.6000, 462.6250, 462.6500, 462.6750, 462.7000, and 462.7250 MHz.​
(b) 462 MHz interstitial channels. Only mobile, hand-held portable and base stations may transmit on these 7 channels. The channel center frequencies are: 462.5625, 462.5875, 462.6125, 462.6375, 462.6625, 462.6875, and 462.7125 MHz.​
(c) 467 MHz main channels. Only mobile, hand-held portable, control and fixed stations may transmit on these 8 channels. Mobile, hand-held portable and control stations may transmit on these channels only when communicating through a repeater station or making brief test transmissions in accordance with §95.319(c). The channel center frequencies are: 467.5500, 467.5750, 467.6000, 467.6250, 467.6500, 467.6750, 467.7000, and 467.7250 MHz.​
(d) 467 MHz interstitial channels. Only hand-held portable units may transmit on these 7 channels. The channel center frequencies are: 467.5675, 467.5875, 467.6125, 467.6375, 467.6625, 467.6875, and 467.7125 MHz.​

§95.1767 GMRS transmitting power limits.

A point to make about power is that channels 1 through 14 are given as power limits ERP, meaning 0.5W is what can be radiated on channels 8 to 14 by the antenna using a 1/2λ dipole as a reference. Channels 1 to 7 are supposed to be 5 W ERP.

ERP is effective radiated power, meaning the equivalent transmitter power gain plus antenna gain minus losses to give an effective field strength. In acceptance testing they will usually measure this in a chamber so it's dependent on the antenna they actually use and in practice favors handhelds.

It's kind of difficult to do when you allow non-fixed antennas such is the case with GMRS. If you increase antenna gain beyond 2.15 dBi (that being what a 1/2λ dipole or 1/4λ monopole whip will have in the real world) you're supposed to reduce transmitter power proportionally. The OEM can't guarantee you actually use the exact same antenna configuration they did in testing.

In the case of the MXT275 and MXT400 the FCC test documented that the radio didn't produce in excess of 50W, which is all they needed to show to meet GMRS rules. It's ultimately a GMRS licensee's responsibility to select power and antennas and not exceed ERP on channels 1 to 7. The MXT400 showed 3.9 watts on low and the MXT275 5.9 watts on low in the FCC tests. To the letter of the rules mobile antennas probably should not have gain on channels 1 to 7 even at low power with these radios (which as Daniel points out they are locked into doing). The MXT275 is going to be close even factoring in lossy coax and connectors.

Only 15 to 22 simplex and the repeater input channels are specified as transmitter power limits (50 watts) with no ERP restriction. As long you don't deliver more than 50 watts you can use as much antenna gain as you want.
 
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Romer

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what are some other good antenna options to mount on rear Slee or Front ARB Bull bar
 

DaveInDenver

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what are some other good antenna options to mount on rear Slee or Front ARB Bull bar
The same performance criteria apply with GMRS as ham with respect to ground planes. Look for 1/2λ or something that says "ground plane independent" or "no ground plane" (NGP) for places such as bumpers.

The good thing about GMRS is being 70cm any ground plane only needs to be about 6" around rather than 19" on 2m. So it's easier to find suitable spots that will tune. Also it's just slightly higher frequency (short wavelength) than the 440MHz ham band so you can trim down a UHF/70cm ham antenna to work on GMRS.

Brands I'd suggest are Larsen or Laird, just make sure to mount whatever you use so it's not hidden. IOW, even if it doesn't need a ground it does need to be clear of as much sheet metal as possible. Since GMRS antennas might be as short as 6" this could be important if you're considering swing-outs where it could be well below the roof line.

Here's a bunch of NGP UHF (you want 450 to 470 MHz range for GMRS) antennas:
https://www.theantennafarm.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=191_192_196_215
 
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